What Have I Done To Cause Such Pain?

[luise.volta]

I know you asked Laurie...but I am going to jump in here because I am leaving my computer and going out for quite a while.I'm going to ask if you can write about yourself and not your son and your relationship, or lack thereof. Can you find a glimmer of self, the one before you became a parent? Can your fingers find the keys to tell us who and how she is over, under, around and beyond this issue? It doesn't define you unless you say so. Sending love...

[LaurieS]

Laurie, do you think my son has not seen a different me in the behavior I've displayed in the last nine months?  These last nine months have been my way of trying to show him a stronger me.  Okay, I know  I'm still stressing over not having him in my  life, but HE doesn't know that.  Have the last nine months of being totally out of character from the mother he perceives as weak not been even the slightest indication of some strength on my part?

Is your goal to only obtain the perception of being strong, or do you actually want to be strong.  I'm not saying that anything is going to bring your son back, and I'm not saying that it's now your responsibility as to how he chooses to now interact with people.  What is your responsibility is how you continue to use all your last God given breaths pondering why. 

Grab your husband and start living again.  It doesn't matter what your son knows or doesn't know any longer, he's made his decision. 

[Angie]

I know you asked Laurie...but I am going to jump in here because I am leaving my computer and going out for quite a while.I'm going to ask if you can write about yourself and not your son and your relationship, or lack thereof. Can you find a glimmer of self, the one before you became a parent? Can your fingers find the keys to tell us who and how she is over, under, around and beyond this issue? It doesn't define you unless you say so. Sending love...

What was I like before my son?  Hmmmmm.  Friendly......still am.  I believed people were mostly good, and now I'm not so sure.  When I was young, I didn't take the world so seriously.  Now I take everything to heart and want to fix it all and make everything better.   I put quite a bit of effort into trying to make people feel better............still do.  I always liked a sense of humility in people rather than a superior attitude..........still do.  I didn't care about politics when I was young but take an active part in them now.  Despite the flaws and the wish to be stronger, I actually like the type of person I am because I'm aware of how far I'll go to help someone and feel the world would be a better place if everyone behaved that way.   I don't really know what you're looking for except to say that before my son I was probably pretty typical of other young women of that time.........working, looking forward to settling down and raising a family.  Nothing out of the ordinary or extraordinary.

[Angie]

Laurie, do you think my son has not seen a different me in the behavior I've displayed in the last nine months?  These last nine months have been my way of trying to show him a stronger me.  Okay, I know  I'm still stressing over not having him in my  life, but HE doesn't know that.  Have the last nine months of being totally out of character from the mother he perceives as weak not been even the slightest indication of some strength on my part?

Is your goal to only obtain the perception of being strong, or do you actually want to be strong. 

Actually...........both.  Both are big changes for me.  Ya know what's funny?  My friends keep telling me that they know from my  past experiences that I AM strong.  I honestly don't know why they feel that way.  I've survived a lot......an awful lot.  I don't feel it gave me strength though.  I did what I had to do.  BUT those things didn't include a child of mine.  Of all I've been through and survived, I see this as the hardest.

[LaurieS]

Without a doubt it's the hardest, it's your son.  You say that you now take everything to heart and want to fix all.. is it to avoid fixating on yourself?  Your son is grown, healthy, hopefully happy with his life's decisions, even if they make you sad.. This is your time for regrowth, when and if you and your son come to terms in the future, you will be able to avoid the pitfalls.

Thinking about myself first is not even natural to me.
Sure, I'd like to change that; but it's not going to be easy.  I don't even know how to say NO easily.  Saying no to something someone wants of me actually makes me feel uncomfortable.  I've tried it in an attempt to  strengthen myself, but I can't honestly say it made me feel good or strengthened; so I resort back  to being a pushover most of the time.   I KNOW I have to change this!

we don't have to be a scrooge to exert our boundaries.  Not to overuse these words but they really do apply here,  Loving yourself a little more, doesn't mean you love your son any less.   Figure out what it is you need for you and then do it. 

[Angie]

Thanks, Laurie.  I need to do more soul searching and have more in-depth conversations about this with dh.......as if we haven't discussed it enough already.  lol    Part of me is saying to make a move towards my son, even if he perceives it as weakness.  If I decide to do that and ds responds, I realize now I will have to be satisfied with little in the way of visits or anything else.  I will convince myself that the little I may get from the relationship is better than no relationship at all.........I GUESS!  I will,  however, not make myself available at all costs, I will make up my mind never to bring up visits again, and I will make mention to him of any cruel remarks or "faces" he may attempt.  But I have to discuss this with my dh.  If it ever comes to pass that I actually follow through with this, I'll post to let all of you know.  That's a big IF at this point. 

[Angie]

You say that you now take everything to heart and want to fix all.. is it to avoid fixating on yourself? 

I don't think so.  I think it's just the fact that I'm as sensitive to others' pain as I would be to my own.  My dh keeps reminding me that, as much as I'd like to, I can't fix everything for everybody.  No one has ever cared about me (parents included) except for my dh.  I think my feelings and needs were so invisible to my parents, even when I needed their attention very badly, that I must have  made myself an unconscious promise never to let anyone else's feelings or needs go unnoticed.  I wouldn't change that about myself, but it can wear me down sometimes. 

[Angie]

You say that you now take everything to heart and want to fix all.. is it to avoid fixating on yourself? 

I don't think so.  I think it's just the fact that I'm as sensitive to others' pain as I would be to my own.  My dh keeps reminding me that, as much as I'd like to, I can't fix everything for everybody.  No one has ever cared about me (parents included) except for my dh.  I think my feelings and needs were so invisible to my parents, even when I needed their attention very badly, that I must have  made myself an unconscious promise never to let anyone else's feelings or needs go unnoticed.  I wouldn't change that about myself, but it can wear me down sometimes.

I forgot to mention this.  Many years ago, as an adult, my ds told me he was very lucky to have us for parents because, through us, he had the best of both worlds.  He said, "I never have to be hesitant to come to you about anything, mom, because you're so tied into emotions that there's nothing I have to be afraid to tell you; and dad (my dh) is so analytical that there doesn't seem to be anything he can't help me figure out or solve."    I wonder what ever happened to those feelings ds had.

[LaurieS]

who knows... and if you've done nothing to deserve his hatred or contempt then why accept it as your destiny?  I figure I have one life, I've gotten a lot wrong but I know I've gotten some of it right.  While my kids were growing up, like everyone of us I would have laid my life on the line in a heartbeat.  I for one can not stomach being walked on or worse by my own children, so I choose not to.  I have different boundaries for my three different kids.. I know some will find that as wrong, but they each have their own unique set of needs and goals and they each react to me differently. 

You can't change who they've become.. I like to blame the worse parts of their personalities on those outside influences   but I do accept who they are now, good or bad.  Making the decision to step back for 9 months has got to be trying.. but you never really stepped back as he has eaten at your heart daily. 

[Angie]

You're right.............and OMG do you sound strong!  Wanna come rub against me to see if some of that strength rubs off?  It would be a nice change for me to lead with my head instead of my heart for a change.

[LaurieS]

I'm far from strong, but after having your heart broken numerous times in life you began to catch on that, that may not be the way to get to the end as a survivor. 

My problems are not with my son as much as it's the son/dil/her extended family combination.  Of course it bothers me, thus the reason for being here to begin with.  I just have to work a little harder then some women to constantly try and focus on my fantastic relationship with my other son, daughter and husband, and of course our extended family. 

My married son is deployed now and my concerns shift from feeling a little slighted by his wife to worrying about his safety.  And then I feel a twinge of guilt because my son is not in harms way like so many others are and somewhere in all that I try to find a balance in order to live this life that ends all to soon.

[Angie]

I'm far from strong, but after having your heart broken numerous times in life you began to catch on that, that may not be the way to get to the end as a survivor. 

My problems are not with my son as much as it's the son/dil/her extended family combination.  Of course it bothers me, thus the reason for being here to begin with.  I just have to work a little harder then some women to constantly try and focus on my fantastic relationship with my other son, daughter and husband, and of course our extended family. 

My married son is deployed now and my concerns shift from feeling a little slighted by his wife to worrying about his safety.  And then I feel a twinge of guilt because my son is not in harms way like so many others are and somewhere in all that I try to find a balance in order to live this life that ends all to soon.

First of all, I'm so very glad to hear your son's not in harms way.......and I hope he stays that way.  BTW, do let him know how grateful we are for his service.    As for the rest, I sit here wishing I had been blessed with more than one child because I wouldn't have focused so much on one.  But then I read your story as well as the stories of others and realize that, with multiple children you can also have multiple problelms.  Handling one is hard enough.  It's so strange to me that I had parents who didn't focus on me at all, yet I called them every day, visited them multiple times a week, cleaned,  cooked and washed for them when they weren't able to, took them into my home to nurse them back to health,etc., yet, after getting better lives, our kids give us heartaches.  I don't get it. 

[jill]

I have been reading through this thread again, and it has got to be one of the most interesting.  It seems everyone here is sharing their thoughts, and I am nodding my head saying yes, that's the way it is in my case, it is so good that we are opening up our hearts like this.
First of all Sheen, I am so sorry you have lost contact with your son, it must be the hardest thing you have to endure.  I am wondering, have you healed in any way over the past six years, if you have not spoken to him?  Angie, I think your wounds are very fresh, even if it is nine months, I think everyone heals at a different rate, and when it is losing our children, I don't know  if we ever really heal.  I know we all want relationships with our children where we are treated with respect, but if that is not going to happen, do we take whatever relationship we can get, or have nothing to do with our children?
My odd called me last night to invite me to something with my granddaughter, she was curt (bordering on rude) and I could have easily have said "don't talk to me like that" but I thought I get to see my granddaughter and that is one of the most important things in my life.  So I took it, and thought afterwards, it does not hurt as much when she talks to me like that any more. I get to see my granddaughter and that's the most important thing.
I have also been thinking this is part of her personality, she is sometimes quite curt to her husband (not when her inlaws are around), so this is her problem.  Angie, I think you and I had similar backgrounds, I lived with a lot of criticism as a child, and then married a man who treated me the same, so maybe that is why my children treat me like this, mom was always someone who was walked over.   
I think that I can have relationships with my daughters, when they choose to, not the kind I would like, but I will take what I can for the sake of my grandchildren.

[Angie]

  I know we all want relationships with our children where we are treated with respect, but if that is not going to happen, do we take whatever relationship we can get, or have nothing to do with our children?

At this moment, I'm thinking along the lines of some relationship is better than none, even if the relationship isn't great, Jill.  Who knows what I'll be thinking tomorrow. I go back and forth in my thoughts. 

I think you may be onto something re being treated poorly by children because they see everyone else treating us poorly.  During one of my dad's  stays in the hospital, I rushed over there (as usual) and was followed by my ds (the apple of my dad's  eye).  My being there was no big deal to my dad, but my ds's presence brought a smile as big as the sun.  My dad didn't mind telling an uncle of mine (right in front of me) that bringing my ds into the world was the one good thing I had ever done.  I walked out into the hall with tears in my eyes. DS followed, hugged me and said he felt sorry for me because  as great as everything had been for HIM, he knew how hard my parents had been on me.  So, he witnessed my being abused by parents and a first husband.  So, did he just decide he would follow suit?  Sure looks that way. 

[Pooh]

At this moment, I'm thinking along the lines of some relationship is better than none, even if the relationship isn't great, Jill.  Who knows what I'll be thinking tomorrow. I back and forth in my thoughts. 

Only if that "some relationship" is not abusive.   If you sacrafice your self-worth and self-respect to have some type of relationship, you are gaining nothing and losing yourself.