What Have I Done To Cause Such Pain?

[Pooh]

I was just wondering if you all feel that we should just acknowledge that our adult children are in no way a part of our lives and sadly accept it.   I would be interested in hearing your views.

I think there comes a time, when you have exhausted all your efforts, that you have to accept that they are not part of your life right now.  I think that time is different for everyone, and each person has to come to terms with this in their own time.  I think you will always have hope they will return and leave a window open just in case, but move on with your life.

[luise.volta]

I can't improve on that. That's it in a nut shell. (And nut shells are hard to swallow.) 

[Angie]

Hi, dear ladies.  After reading your responses, I think there's a little info I should add.  My ex (the biological father of my ds) was a cruel, heartless man.  My ds expressed his hatred for him when he was only in his teens and cut off all ties with him, so I can't honestly say I can blame my ds's present actions on my ex........unless, even without contact, the bad traits can still be there.  My ds does drink beer when he's with his buddies.  In fact, the bunch of them seem to have become "beer connoisseurs," knowing the names of all imported beers, as well as the different special blends made here in the USA.  BUT he and all his buddies are extremely athletic.  No matter the season or the weather, they're all out there participating in sports.  To me, that implies that, although they love their beer, they probably aren't abusing it.  Am I wrong?  Here's another thought I'm having......and, once again, I could be very wrong.  I'm thinking that, if I called him and didn't bring up how much he's hurt me, he might just speak to me as though the last nine months didn't even happen.  Okay, but what happens after that?  We may be on speaking terms again, but it will be on his terms...........an occasional visit during which he'll act bored out of his mind while he's here and not be the least interested in us.  I could NEVER expect an apology from him for the faces he made at me because that would infuriate him.  He never wants the past brought up, no matter what he's done.  We've walked that path before, so I know exactly what to expect.  If I should make an attempt to contact him (and that would mean that, once again I have to be  the one to give in, even though I'm the injured party), and it opens up communication again, I have to always be walking on egg shells. 

Before all this happened, my husband and I used to experience tension whenever ds did visit because we wanted so much to make the infrequent visits so pleasurable for ds that he WOULD want to visit again.  DH and I would hand ds the remote and let him choose what he wanted to watch, we'd try always to have something to eat that we thought he'd enjoy.  We'd wrack our brains trying to come up with conversation that would interest ds, since he didn't seem interested in anything that was happening in OUR lives.  If we were all watching a tv movie together and dh or I would ask "What did they say" (because we didn't catch a line), sometimes ds and dil would answer, but sometimes they'd just ignore our question and not answer at all.
 
IF I were to make an attempt at opening the door to communication, and IF he responds in kind, I have to accept that things will be just as they were before.  My ex remarried, which ended up in a second divorce.  I once asked my ds if he had ever seen my ex be physically or emotionally cruel to his new wife.  My ds answered that he had NOT and then followed it up with telling me that my ex's new wife was strong and wouldn't take that kind of abuse.  He said "You're weak."  BTW, the reason my ex got divorced the second time is because he found his "strong" wife in bed with another man.  Anyway, I guess my ds's perception of me is that I'm weak...................not that I'm kind, caring, loving, devoted and loyal......but that I'm weak.  Maybe he's right.  After all, haven't I allowed ds to walk all over me his whole life. 

Anyway, these are just some of the thoughts racing through my mind right now.  Will I act on any of them?  I don't know.  All I do know is that not having my ds in my life is just as stressful as having him in my life with the disrespect.  If I'm confusing you, know that I'm confusing myself also.

[MrsKitty]

Hi Angie. I found the below information on a website about domestic violence. I'm not sure if it applies to your situation as your DS was very young when you left, but I thought it might shed some light for you:

What are the long-term effects on children who witness domestic violence?

Whether or not children are physically abused, they often suffer emotional and psychological trauma from living in homes where their fathers abuse their mothers. Children whose mothers are abused are denied the kind of home life that fosters healthy development. Children who grow up observing their mothers being abused, especially by their fathers, grow up with a role model of intimate relationships in which one person uses intimidation and violence over the other person to get their way. Because children have a natural tendency to identify with strength, they may ally themselves with the abuser and lose respect for their seemingly helpless mother. Abusers typically play into this by putting the mother down in front of her children and telling them that their mother is "crazy" or "stupid" and that they do not have to listen to her. Seeing their mothers treated with enormous disrespect, teaches children that they can disrespect women the way their fathers do.

Most experts believe that children who are raised in abusive homes learn that violence is an effective way to resolve conflicts and problems. They may replicate the violence they witnessed as children in their teen and adult relationships and parenting experiences. Boys who witness their mothers' abuse are more likely to batter their female partners as adults than boys raised in nonviolent homes. For girls, adolescence may result in the belief that threats and violence are the norm in relationships.

Children from violent homes have higher risks of alcohol/drug abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, and juvenile delinquency. Witnessing domestic violence is the single best predictor of juvenile delinquency and adult criminality. It is also the number one reason children run away.

[Angie]

hi
  My question is if that contact is never made, what are we suppose to do. For the last six years I have allowed him the space he wanted, I have however sent Christmas, Birthday cards just to make sure he knew that although we haven't spoken, not a day goes by that I don't think of him.This year when I sent his card out, I received it back with a stamp that said forwarding time had expired.  After doing a bit of research thru public records, I found out that he had actually sold his home a year ago and I have no idea where he currently lives at this time.  My address and phone number have not changed so I am assuming if he wanted to reach me there was a way.   Although I think cooling off periods and acknowledging that they are adults and therefore able to live their own lives etc, I was just wondering if you all feel that we should just acknowledge that our adult children are in no way a part of our lives and sadly accept it.   I would be interested in hearing your views.

My heart aches for you, Sheen.  I feel nine months is a long time.  I can't imagine six years of this hell.  I continue to hold onto every positive possibility, because I can't bear the thought of this lasting forever (and I'm probably just kidding myself).  My son hasn't moved, and did send gifts even when I stopped sending them.  Should I consider those gifts as "reaching out" to us, or is he just doing it so that he can tell others that he has "tried" but that we're not responding?  What are his motives?  To me, real reaching out would mean a phone call, a visit, an apology.  Should I tell myself, "Well, it's a different generation and it's just not in them to admit they've said or done something to hurt us deeply?"  And why is it always up to the parents to try to rectify things?  Why don't our children consider US a loss as much as we consider THEM a loss?

  I have to wonder, even if I look at this and consider it as "reaching out," is my ds depending on what he considers my "weakness" to get him through his bad actions once again with no explanations or apologies necessary?

[luise.volta]

Please try to remember that we can't reprint anything here due to copyright laws...but we can refer members to URLs. (And yes, I have forgotten and done it, too.) Sending love...

[Angie]

That's really good info, Mrs. Kitty.  I'm not aware of any abuse of my ds towards his wife, although she does seem to agree with everything he says and does.  dil has mentioned some endearing things ds has done to her and for her.  I'd hate to think there's any kind of abuse going on there.  I left my ex before my son was even two years old.  I wonder if the info you supplied would still apply to someone who was taken out of an abusive home that young.

I tend to beat myself up, willing to take the blame for everything, much to my dh's chagrin.  Now I'm wondering if I should take the blame for my ds's behavior because his behavior may be the result of the environment he lived in before I divorced my ex.  There honestly were no indications that there would be abuse before I married my ex.  Even my parents were caught unaware by it because they never detected anything either.  However, if that abuse IS responsible for my ds's behavior, it doesn't really matter whether there were signs beforehand or not.  How do I make it right for him?

[luise.volta]

One thing that if often really hard to get is that we can't undo any parenting mistakes...real or imagined. They are adults and need to work through what is dysfunctional, just like we did. All childhoods are lacking...because life is. There's no perfection anywhere....(real or imagined.) Sending love...

[LaurieS]

Angie... now this is not the 'oh honey' type of message that I think you tend to respond to better.. but have you read your own postings?  I mean really read them, sat and listened to your own words.  You are so busy finding more ways to blame yourself, in every aspect of your life then you are in finding your inner strength.  Of course your son is going to walk all over you because you are bent on throwing yourself under his feet.  Until you can figure out who Angie is, and find a little gumption you are going to continue to wring your hands asking over and over again.. Why

[Angie]

Maybe it's because everything I read seems to lead to blaming parents for what children become or do.  My own parents were tough on me.  They didn't believe in compliments or nurturing a child's self esteem.  Self esteem is not something I grew up with.  That's probably why I worked so hard at trying to feed my ds self esteem.  Does that make sense? 

[luise.volta]

Yes, beyond "why?" there can be "Is is." And often only beyond that..."healing." Not easy to look at but sometimes we are the "bull that needs to be taken by the horns." We are here for you...many of not most of us us had to pass that milepost.

[luise.volta]

Sure it makes sense. And what a lot of us are also learning is that a sense of "entitlement" often arose out of that. The pendulum swings too far oftentimes. Keep thinking about yourself. Set him aside mentally and emotionally, if and when you can, as a painful enigma and think about what you can do now, today, that would bring you joy...and then do it. 

[LaurieS]

Maybe it's because everything I read seems to lead to blaming parents for what children become or do.  My own parents were tough on me.  They didn't believe in compliments or nurturing a child's self esteem.  Self esteem is not something I grew up with.  That's probably why I worked so hard at trying to feed my ds self esteem.  Does that make sense?

Don't you think it's time that you work on your own self-esteem?  Until you do, I'm afraid that all you will ever see is that hideous snearing face your son made to show you what he thought of you as a person..didn't you say that he reinforced those feelings by doing it yet again?

Your son will not respect you until you began to have a little respect for yourself.  Find help, find groups, because you really need to find yourself now.   

[Angie]

Sure it makes sense. And what a lot of us are also learning is that a sense of "entitlement" often arose out of that. The pendulum swings too far oftentimes. Keep thinking about yourself. Set him aside mentally and emotionally, if and when you can, as a painful enigma and think about what you can do now, today, that would bring you joy...and then do it. 

I do believe you're right.......a sense of entitlement arose out of that.  Thinking about myself first is not even natural to me. 
Sure, I'd like to change that; but it's not going to be easy.  I don't even know how to say NO easily.  Saying no to something someone wants of me actually makes me feel uncomfortable.  I've tried it in an attempt to  strengthen myself, but I can't honestly say it made me feel good or strengthened; so I resort back  to being a pushover most of the time.   I KNOW I have to change this!

[Angie]

Maybe it's because everything I read seems to lead to blaming parents for what children become or do.  My own parents were tough on me.  They didn't believe in compliments or nurturing a child's self esteem.  Self esteem is not something I grew up with.  That's probably why I worked so hard at trying to feed my ds self esteem.  Does that make sense?

Don't you think it's time that you work on your own self-esteem?  Until you do, I'm afraid that all you will ever see is that hideous snearing face your son made to show you what he thought of you as a person..didn't you say that he reinforced those feelings by doing it yet again?

Your son will not respect you until you began to have a little respect for yourself.  Find help, find groups, because you really need to find yourself now.

Laurie, do you think my son has not seen a different me in the behavior I've displayed in the last nine months?  These last nine months have been my way of trying to show him a stronger me.  Okay, I know  I'm still stressing over not having him in my  life, but HE doesn't know that.  Have the last nine months of being totally out of character from the mother he perceives as weak not been even the slightest indication of some strength on my part?