What Have I Done To Cause Such Pain?

[Angie]

I have a very reliable source re what he does, and I know you won't mind if I choose not to reveal what or who it is.

I do think it's great that he loves to exercise.  Just wish he'd make a few minutes here and there to see mom and dad.

Well I'm not even going to go into this whole "reliable source" thing because...well just because.

But the point is....he DID make a "few minutes here and there to see mom and dad."  I think I remember you saying before you saw him 10 times a year.  That IS making a few minutes here and there to see you- that obviously was NOT good enough for you.  You're saying that's all you want, and that's what he gave- wasn't good enough for you.  That's why you kept hounding him and he kept pushing back.  And now you are where you're at now.  Being grateful for the time you spend together or the interactions you do have instead of focusing on the time you don't get to spend together can change the entire dynamic of a relationship.

Is it possible that so many of you jumped to the same conclusion at the same time, or is it more likely that, when one person kicks someone, the others make sure they get a turn at kicking too?  You're right.  I wanted to see more of my only child.  Not every day........just more.  Ya know, there just might be something you'd think isn't right about your children but I'D think it was just fine.  But ya know what I wouldn't do?  I  wouldn't try to purposely make you feel as though you're a very bad person for it, just because we might not agree about it. 

[LaurieS]

You are not a bad person.. no one here said you were... your son is the only one who was labeled as being 'bad'.. thoughtless hateful and all those  other ways you described him.  I mean how can you two spend time together when you don't even like who he has become.  Has he said in many actions that he doesn't like you, or want to spend time with you... you're old and boring and do old people things.  I don't see what there is about him that you still like.  So now that you've let him know that you do not appreciate him or his gestures what is left to do.  I mean really do you want a person in your life who is like this? Who thinks so very little of you? Who would rather hang with strangers then his own parents?  I'd lay my head down every night and thank my lucky stars that I didn't have to see my grown adult son making ugly faces at me in an attempt to belittle me and hurt me.  He flat out  sounds like a horrible person who isn't worth the time.. that is just my opinion

[overwhelmed123]

No one said anything about you being a bad person...if you took it that way, that is no one's doing here.  It seems like you really don't want any perspective here that differs from what you deem to be "correct."  I just feel for your whole situation because it doesn't have to be this way.  But if you take the perspective as personal attacks, which they weren't, you still won't get anywhere at the end of the day.  I hope you see them soon in the spirit they were intended and I hope you can salvage a relationship with your son that both of you are comfortable with giving.

[pam1]

To me, it comes across as you want a schedule.  Reading all your posts, that's how I would take it.  I haven't read anything where you've called him to go get a drink, watch a game or anything like that.  Just a lot of sadness and hurt that he isn't doing exactly what you want, which he's already told you he's not willing to do. 

In some families 8 days a year with extended family is pretty normal.  Others it's not.

How can we ask him to go for a drink or anything else?  He's never home and doesn't return calls.  He'd never settle for watching a game.  He's not interested........unless there happens to be a film on mountain biking.  How often does that happen on tv?

You're right, you can't call him up right now and ask him to go do something -- it's gone too far for that right now.  In time, it may be possible.

I think a lot of people have given you great advice in this thread.  I wish someone could have told my MIL these type of things before it got too far and we hardly see them at all anymore.  And it looks like that's really not changing any time soon (and this is according to DH, his family, his choice.)

Something DH has been saying the past month really resonates with me concerning this thread.  He feels that his mother just plain doesn't respect him as a person.  I've often thought and described her as a person who is playing tea with her dolls concerning her children.  She pulls them out of the closet when she wants, she sits them where she wants, she has them say what she wants and do what she wants.  It's a very one sided relationship and very hurtful.  (I'm not saying you're like her, I'm just noticing similarities)

Angie, you've described your son doing some pretty nice things for you.  Going out on Mothers Day -- rejected and guilt trip by voicing complaints about more visits.  Flowers - rejected and guilt trip.  It doesn't matter what your friends think or really, even what we posters think here.  It matters what your son thinks....   Do you think he finds interactions with you pleasant?

I think you'd have to ask HIM that last question, because he's never said anything to me about whether he finds me pleasant or not.  I find it interesting that, in another thread, someone told me it's never just one side that's guilty  (not verbatim), yet here you are putting all the blame for your situation on your MIL.

LOL, whoa..no, I don't put all the blame on her.  I think I was pretty clear in describing only one side (DH's and mine) in a similar situation.  I don't know why you're looking for who's right or wrong in *my* sitch instead of just taking what I offer if it is of any use or just skipping it.   

And, there are quite a few of us here who have admitted our mistakes.  A lot of us even made a list.  But whatever, I think it's clear you're only looking for an atta girl, you're right, he's wrong. 

[LaurieS]

Did we say Welcome Back Pam

[Angie]

To me, it comes across as you want a schedule.  Reading all your posts, that's how I would take it.  I haven't read anything where you've called him to go get a drink, watch a game or anything like that.  Just a lot of sadness and hurt that he isn't doing exactly what you want, which he's already told you he's not willing to do. 

In some families 8 days a year with extended family is pretty normal.  Others it's not.

How can we ask him to go for a drink or anything else?  He's never home and doesn't return calls.  He'd never settle for watching a game.  He's not interested........unless there happens to be a film on mountain biking.  How often does that happen on tv?

You're right, you can't call him up right now and ask him to go do something -- it's gone too far for that right now.  In time, it may be possible.

I think a lot of people have given you great advice in this thread.  I wish someone could have told my MIL these type of things before it got too far and we hardly see them at all anymore.  And it looks like that's really not changing any time soon (and this is according to DH, his family, his choice.)

Something DH has been saying the past month really resonates with me concerning this thread.  He feels that his mother just plain doesn't respect him as a person.  I've often thought and described her as a person who is playing tea with her dolls concerning her children.  She pulls them out of the closet when she wants, she sits them where she wants, she has them say what she wants and do what she wants.  It's a very one sided relationship and very hurtful.  (I'm not saying you're like her, I'm just noticing similarities)

Angie, you've described your son doing some pretty nice things for you.  Going out on Mothers Day -- rejected and guilt trip by voicing complaints about more visits.  Flowers - rejected and guilt trip.  It doesn't matter what your friends think or really, even what we posters think here.  It matters what your son thinks....   Do you think he finds interactions with you pleasant?

I think you'd have to ask HIM that last question, because he's never said anything to me about whether he finds me pleasant or not.  I find it interesting that, in another thread, someone told me it's never just one side that's guilty  (not verbatim), yet here you are putting all the blame for your situation on your MIL.

LOL, whoa..no, I don't put all the blame on her.  I think I was pretty clear in describing only one side (DH's and mine) in a similar situation.  I don't know why you're looking for who's right or wrong in *my* sitch instead of just taking what I offer if it is of any use or just skipping it.   

And, there are quite a few of us here who have admitted our mistakes.  A lot of us even made a list.  But whatever, I think it's clear you're only looking for an atta girl, you're right, he's wrong.

You're wrong..  I wouldn't have sent him an email after you guys showed me I was wrong in what I said in yesterday's email if I were looking for atta girl, you're right, he's wrong.  By sending that email, I was saying I realized I did the wrong thing yesterday.  That's hardly someone looking for atta girl.  That's someone who's recognized she made a mistake and tried to rectify it.  I think I've taken most of the constructive criticism in good stride and welcomed it.  I also think some go out of their way to verbalize their opinions more kindly than others.

[Keys Girl]

Angie, the title of this thread is: What Have I Done to Cause Such Pain?

Well, for one thing, "reliable sources" spying on your adult son and his wife would be one thing that you have done that would certainly cause them some pain.  Do you think they don't know about this? People always talk and I'm sure they know that you are spying on them. 

Your son is an adult, if you are unhappy because he is living his life as he wishes and not to please you, then I suggest you -
A. Leave your "reliable sources" to spy on others, because that's what stalkers do.
B. Go back to school and get a Private Detective's license so that you can legally spy on others, get paid for it and give you something interesting to do during the day.
C. If those two don't work, that's life.  You did not give your son a contract when he was born that stipulated how he would treat you when he grew up. 
D. While we give our children life and our generation was very familiar with the word "sacrifice" but this generation doesn't seem to have ever heard it whispered, every very generation has its trials and turmoils.  They will have theirs, no doubt, eventually, but certainly.
E. Lastly, "There are two lasting bequests we can give our children: One is roots, the other is wings." Hodding Carter quotes

[pam1]

Ok, but then you wouldn't be busy pointing out where you think everyone is wrong when they simply disagree with you.  Take a good look at your posts on this thread.  People were genuinely trying to help you in taking the time to post their differences and you have consistently posted harshly in return.  Even going so far as to victimize yourself when the opinions still didn't sway your way consistently.  I haven't seen anyone post harshly directed at you but that is your opinion, as it is mine that you're not looking for real help.

[LaurieS]

Real help  and opinions have fallen by the wayside all day.. Angie does not even seem to want people to agree.. So where does that leave the board and where does that leave Angie.

We had another mother on the board who was kinda stalking her son.. maybe I'm doing something wrong.. I love my children.. but they are adults and personally I don't really care that much about what they are doing on a minute by minute basis.  Your observations are correct Pam, I don't think help is what she is after here.. but she's got 27 pages and 4 months worth of postings on this topic.. that will be hard to beat.

[Angie]

Angie, the title of this thread is: What Have I Done to Cause Such Pain?

Well, for one thing, "reliable sources" spying on your adult son and his wife would be one thing that you have done that would certainly cause them some pain.  Do you think they don't know about this? People always talk and I'm sure they know that you are spying on them. 

Your son is an adult, if you are unhappy because he is living his life as he wishes and not to please you, then I suggest you -
A. Leave your "reliable sources" to spy on others, because that's what stalkers do.
B. Go back to school and get a Private Detective's license so that you can legally spy on others, get paid for it and give you something interesting to do during the day.
C. If those two don't work, that's life.  You did not give your son a contract when he was born that stipulated how he would treat you when he grew up. 
D. While we give our children life and our generation was very familiar with the word "sacrifice" but this generation doesn't seem to have ever heard it whispered, every very generation has its trials and turmoils.  They will have theirs, no doubt, eventually, but certainly.
E. Lastly, "There are two lasting bequests we can give our children: One is roots, the other is wings." Hodding Carter quotes

Okay, before this goes any further, I said my son has his space.  There are other public boards just  like this  one that anyone can read.  And that's my source.  I'm not learning anything no one else can learn about him.  And he's had his wings since he was 22 when he took his own apt., so he's hardly been held captive by his mother.  He knew his roots before that.  I have no desire for him to have trials, turmoil or tribulation.  I just wanna get a hug again, and I've made a step towards that today, hopefully.  And now I bid you adieu.  Keep on keeping on..... I know you will.   

[jill]

Angie,
Just want to let you know everyone here really cares about you, they know the pain you are in, and we are all just trying to help as much as we can.  We are all suffering because of the way we are being treated by the children we loved and nurtured.
I know it is hard but please not try to think about visits or hugs (I cannot remember when I last had a hug from my odd), or how many times a year you should see him.  Every family is different. You have your husband, you have pets, I would not contact your son.  He may come around, he may not, nothing you do can change it, it will be when he is ready.
Take care of yourself Angie............................best wishes Jill

[pam1]

So you read about him on another message board?  Is that what you're saying?

I don't wish for you to leave either.

[Angie]

Angie,
Just want to let you know everyone here really cares about you, they know the pain you are in, and we are all just trying to help as much as we can.  We are all suffering because of the way we are being treated by the children we loved and nurtured.
I know it is hard but please not try to think about visits or hugs (I cannot remember when I last had a hug from my odd), or how many times a year you should see him.  Every family is different. You have your husband, you have pets, I would not contact your son.  He may come around, he may not, nothing you do can change it, it will be when he is ready.
Take care of yourself Angie............................best wishes Jill

You put that very kindly, Jill.  I intend to wait and see if son responds to my last email.  If he doesn't, I'll consider it out of my hands.

Angie

[Keys Girl]

My point of view is that it's time to shut down this thread.  I don't spend a lot of time on the computer and I think this topic has run it's course, I have no use for people who lurk around on Facebook or other sites in an effort to snoop/stalk their adult children.

A lot of people have spent time and energy in a sincere effort to help Angie, and now she's bid us Adieu, I'm not sure if she means for the night or forever, but whatever, I won't post on this thread again if it remains active. 



   

[overwhelmed123]

I didn't realize there were men out there who got on a message board or website to discuss their daily schedules, daily chores, what responsibilities they share with their spouse, and how much time they dedicate to each activity, and how often they cook themselves vs eating out...he must like to talk a lot more than he lets on!