What Have I Done To Cause Such Pain?

[LaurieS]

Well Pam you're just in time to sing with us

[Nana]

Welcome back Pam

Love

[pam1]

To me, it comes across as you want a schedule.  Reading all your posts, that's how I would take it.  I haven't read anything where you've called him to go get a drink, watch a game or anything like that.  Just a lot of sadness and hurt that he isn't doing exactly what you want, which he's already told you he's not willing to do. 

In some families 8 days a year with extended family is pretty normal.  Others it's not.

How can we ask him to go for a drink or anything else?  He's never home and doesn't return calls.  He'd never settle for watching a game.  He's not interested........unless there happens to be a film on mountain biking.  How often does that happen on tv?

You're right, you can't call him up right now and ask him to go do something -- it's gone too far for that right now.  In time, it may be possible.

I think a lot of people have given you great advice in this thread.  I wish someone could have told my MIL these type of things before it got too far and we hardly see them at all anymore.  And it looks like that's really not changing any time soon (and this is according to DH, his family, his choice.)

Something DH has been saying the past month really resonates with me concerning this thread.  He feels that his mother just plain doesn't respect him as a person.  I've often thought and described her as a person who is playing tea with her dolls concerning her children.  She pulls them out of the closet when she wants, she sits them where she wants, she has them say what she wants and do what she wants.  It's a very one sided relationship and very hurtful.  (I'm not saying you're like her, I'm just noticing similarities)

Angie, you've described your son doing some pretty nice things for you.  Going out on Mothers Day -- rejected and guilt trip by voicing complaints about more visits.  Flowers - rejected and guilt trip.  It doesn't matter what your friends think or really, even what we posters think here.  It matters what your son thinks....   Do you think he finds interactions with you pleasant?

[pam1]

Welcome back Pam

Love

Thank you

Are you suuuuuuure you want me to sing?  I'm already tone deaf and currently really deaf in one ear lol.  Maybe now is the time to try out for American Idol, I think I might be too old though lol

[Angie]

it is EXTREMELY unhealthy. IMO
[/quote]

It is?  I don't see THEM here asking for advice.

Gotta go for now.  I'm having trouble with my dang computer and have to  try to figure out what happened, if I can. 

[Angie]

Hey Pam.  Good to see you...where you been chicko?

Angie, you are still trying to justify why you are right.  You are going to spin in circles.  My DH loves Mountain Biking.  I have become a fan of the Tour De France, sitting on the side the road watching bikes go by and watching video's on YouTube.  There are always new videos on YouTube.   I can't ride like he does, but you can bet I will make a sign and root for him.

You don't have to like what he does, but you can't fault him for liking it.  There has to be give and take if you want to have a relationship with him.  I love my kids, but expecting them to show up more than every couple, three or four months for a visit, would be pushing it for any young adult with their own lives.

I would really like to know if you want to have a relationship with him?  I asked earlier, and several others have, but you haven't honestly said what you want?

I never said I don't like what he does. As a matter of fact, I'm glad he feels exercising is important.  I just wish he could tear himsef away for short visits now and then.

Yes, I  would love to have a relationship with him.  I think I've reiterated that several times.  What I want is for us to like each other and to enjoy each other's company

[Angie]

BTW, he doesn't do much in the way of cleaning (unlike his mother......and, no, I've never said anything about it.)  They can do what they want with their house.  I don't have to live there.  He doesn't go to the gym, no tanning, cooks only occasionally as they eat out a bit, and wife makes no demands on him.   There's only one sport he's involved with; and he eats and sleeps it.........can't seem to get enough. He does that sport right after work every day and all weekend long.  In fact, he doesn't even sleep in on most weekends so he can get up early and be out most of the day engaging in that sport.  Their vacations are taken where he can still engage in that sport.  After the sporting comes the eating and drinking with the guys who also engage in that sport.  Every hour outside of work or sleep he engages in that sport......oh, except when there's snow on the ground.....then he switches to XC skiing.
I can't think of any activity I'd let take up that much of my time.  Plus I enjoy spending time doing things with dh, whereas son and dil don't seem to mind the separation to go off alone.  Again, that's none of my business.  I guess it works for them since they've been married going on 17years.

I WILL take your advice in letting him decide when/if he speaks to me next.  I do think that's the proper thing to do now.  Thanks again, Scoop.
Angie

Angie, I am asking this as an honest question- not meant to be snarky, but being that you only see him every so often, how do you know how he spends his every moment?  You seem to know for a fact he doesn't help to clean his house, so you know what chores he does, how often he cooks, what his wife "demands" of him in their personal life, and how many hours per week he spends on his sport.  How are you privy to all this personal information?

I would think it was great that he is so involved in a hobby that is so good for your body.  He doesn't sleep in on the weekends, he gets up early to go mountain biking- good for him!  He is taking care of his body- that is a priority for him and that is GOOD!

Also, the longer you compare what your friends tell you their children do to what your child does is going to leave you spinning in circles.  It is such a moot point to compare what other families comfort levels are.  Your friends' kids might call them or see them daily, but all that becomes irrelevant if your son isn't comfortable with that type of relationship.  8-10 times a year (I thought I read 10 times a year somewhere in your other posts) is actually fairly common and I would think a lot more of a realistic expectation.  You can deem it "criminal" and paint yourself into a victim for asking for more, but at the end of the day your son doesn't want to give it, so why force the issue?  Why not just appreciate the fact that you see him 8-10 times a year, which is a compromise in itself if you're saying he's so busy with his interests and hobbies (regardless of where he lives, because that doesn't mean he doesn't have a life outside of you)!  And just so you know, I am very close with my parents but I don't reserve Memorial Day, 4th of July, and those other "holidays" for them.  They don't get upset about it.  They known I am a grown individual with my own couple friends that I want to spend time with.  I think that's normal.  Those holidays really aren't that special...so there's no use getting so hung up on them.

I have a very reliable source re what he does, and I know you won't mind if I choose not to reveal what or who it is.

I do think it's great that he loves to exercise.  Just wish he'd make a few minutes here and there to see mom and dad.

[Angie]

To me, it comes across as you want a schedule.  Reading all your posts, that's how I would take it.  I haven't read anything where you've called him to go get a drink, watch a game or anything like that.  Just a lot of sadness and hurt that he isn't doing exactly what you want, which he's already told you he's not willing to do. 

In some families 8 days a year with extended family is pretty normal.  Others it's not.

How can we ask him to go for a drink or anything else?  He's never home and doesn't return calls.  He'd never settle for watching a game.  He's not interested........unless there happens to be a film on mountain biking.  How often does that happen on tv?

You're right, you can't call him up right now and ask him to go do something -- it's gone too far for that right now.  In time, it may be possible.

I think a lot of people have given you great advice in this thread.  I wish someone could have told my MIL these type of things before it got too far and we hardly see them at all anymore.  And it looks like that's really not changing any time soon (and this is according to DH, his family, his choice.)

Something DH has been saying the past month really resonates with me concerning this thread.  He feels that his mother just plain doesn't respect him as a person.  I've often thought and described her as a person who is playing tea with her dolls concerning her children.  She pulls them out of the closet when she wants, she sits them where she wants, she has them say what she wants and do what she wants.  It's a very one sided relationship and very hurtful.  (I'm not saying you're like her, I'm just noticing similarities)

Angie, you've described your son doing some pretty nice things for you.  Going out on Mothers Day -- rejected and guilt trip by voicing complaints about more visits.  Flowers - rejected and guilt trip.  It doesn't matter what your friends think or really, even what we posters think here.  It matters what your son thinks....   Do you think he finds interactions with you pleasant?

I think you'd have to ask HIM that last question, because he's never said anything to me about whether he finds me pleasant or not.  I find it interesting that, in another thread, someone told me it's never just one side that's guilty  (not verbatim), yet here you are putting all the blame for your situation on your MIL.

[AnonymousDIL]

I have a very reliable source re what he does, and I know you won't mind if I choose not to reveal what or who it is.

I do think it's great that he loves to exercise.  Just wish he'd make a few minutes here and there to see mom and dad.

Um.... CREEPY.... Who or Whatever you source is sounds like it is an invasion of your son's privacy....oh, and your DIL's. Not allowing a grown adult their privacy is just disrespectful. You really need to let your son have his space.

[Angie]

I have a very reliable source re what he does, and I know you won't mind if I choose not to reveal what or who it is.

I do think it's great that he loves to exercise.  Just wish he'd make a few minutes here and there to see mom and dad.

Um.... CREEPY.... Who or Whatever you source is sounds like it is an invasion of your son's privacy....oh, and your DIL's. Not allowing a grown adult their privacy is just disrespectful. You really need to let your son have his space.

He does have his own space.  And I won't go into further detail about it.

[LaurieS]

Angie... what are you looking for here?  You've spend an entire day justifying your stance... you're right, your son is awful, hateful and toxic.. you had every right to blast his butt over having the audacity to send you flowers instead of hand delivering them... He will never put you above his beloved sport of biking, his sport means more to him then his own family does.  He will never call you everyday because he does not care enough to.. he probably received your email and felt that all his thoughts and feelings have been confirmed.  He will continue to make hideous faces at you because he never matured into an adult who understands relationships.  As long as his wife plays the human vise for him in the garage he has a place for her, but if she makes any demands on his time he will most likely cut her out of his life too.. she may not even get the flowers.. he only sent them to you because you've reminded him daily that you did after all give birth to him.

There is no way I would waste my breath or  time to ever apologize to him, your behavior has been justified, we will all vouch for that.. the second email you sent today will probably never be read because toxic self-centered spoiled rotten brats simply don't care. I do not see where you went wrong.. where you can change any of this, where you got anything more then the shaft from a son that you gave everything to.  With this support, go forward and live your life with your husband.. there is a lot of life left.. why waste it on someone like him.  Let the strangers have the rest of him, you don't need this in your life.. I wish you well in your journey...

[overwhelmed123]

I have a very reliable source re what he does, and I know you won't mind if I choose not to reveal what or who it is.

I do think it's great that he loves to exercise.  Just wish he'd make a few minutes here and there to see mom and dad.

Well I'm not even going to go into this whole "reliable source" thing because...well just because.

But the point is....he DID make a "few minutes here and there to see mom and dad."  I think I remember you saying before you saw him 10 times a year.  That IS making a few minutes here and there to see you- that obviously was NOT good enough for you.  You're saying that's all you want, and that's what he gave- wasn't good enough for you.  That's why you kept hounding him and he kept pushing back.  And now you are where you're at now.  Being grateful for the time you spend together or the interactions you do have instead of focusing on the time you don't get to spend together can change the entire dynamic of a relationship.

[Angie]

Angie... what are you looking for here?  You've spend an entire day justifying your stance... you're right, your son is awful, hateful and toxic.. you had every right to blast his butt over having the audacity to send you flowers instead of hand delivering them... He will never put you above his beloved sport of biking, his sport means more to him then his own family does.  He will never call you everyday because he does not care enough to.. he probably received your email and felt that all his thoughts and feelings have been confirmed.  He will continue to make hideous faces at you because he never matured into an adult who understands relationships.  As long as his wife plays the human vise for him in the garage he has a place for her, but if she makes any demands on his time he will most likely cut her out of his life too.. she may not even get the flowers.. he only sent them to you because you've reminded him daily that you did after all give birth to him.

There is no way I would waste my breath or  time to ever apologize to him, your behavior has been justified, we will all vouch for that.. the second email you sent today will probably never be read because toxic self-centered spoiled rotten brats simply don't care. I do not see where you went wrong.. where you can change any of this, where you got anything more then the shaft from a son that you gave everything to.  With this support, go forward and live your life with your husband.. there is a lot of life left.. why waste it on someone like him.  Let the strangers have the rest of him, you don't need this in your life.. I wish you well in your journey...

I've used this same psychology on someone, Laurie.  They didn't get it, but I do.

[overwhelmed123]

HE'S GOT HIGH HOPES! HIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHH HOPES!

LOL :-)

I'm ashamed...I'm not as good as ADIL...I had to look up the lyrics to understand.

[AnonymousDIL]

Thanks to Nick at Nite's showings of Laverne and Shirley LOL