Author Topic: Looking for a Different Perspective  (Read 4610 times)

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Offline forever spring

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2011, 11:34:51 PM »
FooFoo, I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. The sad thing is that this kind of racism is still very much part of our life in general and for you to have it happen in the immediate family is especially sad. I'm sure you want your DH to have a good relationship with his family and you would like, ideally, for the GP to play a part in the upbringing of your GC. This is ideal case scenario. Your IL do not allow this to happen because of their bigotted behaviour. That is entirely their problem. You cannot solve it. I don't think they are entitled to you thinking about them even for one minute of the day. You need to block them from your thoughts entirely. I know this is not possible, but at least worth a try. They don't like you, and as I see it, it's just because of the colour of your skin. How petty and narrow minded is that? Do they not have the wellbeing of their DS at heart? Why put him through this kind of stress when they must know that he is happy with you. WHY can't they share his pride in his own children, their GC , who are part of them anyway? I do feel for you and your DH. What an exciting mix of culture your children would be able to participate in if only they allowed them to! How loving and good it could all be!
I have a friend whose FOO is Muslim. She married a non-Muslim and her family disowned her. SHe has two D who are grown up now and this family has never seen their GDs. My friend is deeply affected by it. Her marriage is good but she loves her family dearly. Now how cruel is that???
Don't they know that deep down inside we are all humans, we are all equal? Why can't we be colourblind?
I believe in your situation at the moment you just need to let it be - for the time being anyway -, sit back and just hope that they will come round in time and see the error of their ways and realise that they are missing out on a lot - and for what? A principle that is totally obsolete, especially in a multicultural society such as the US.
My thoughts are with you and I hope we will hear some good news soon. Small steps maybe?

holliberri

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2011, 05:03:58 AM »
On the flip side of this, I'm looking into adopting. My own family (mom's parents) are just as bigoted as your ILs, and I've begun thinking about this topic a lot. Whether or not the adoption process works out, I've decided that DD (who is caucasian, as my GPs are), shouldn't be around people that talk the way my GPs do about other cultures. The things they say are awful, and how they treat people of different cultures is horrible. I tried to write it off as generational, but the truth is, that stuff is taught (which is probably why your SILs think that your MIL's behavior is acceptable).

I've been taught that "a little" racism is acceptable, but the truth is, it's not. The world won't get better if we just tolerate these things. I commend you for standing your ground, and while the circumstances are different, I'm hoping to incorporate a little bit of your assertiveness into my own life.  I simply wouldn't want my kids around people that behave that way, no matter who their behavior is directed at (the fact that your their son's wife just makes it all the more despicable). 

cremebrulee

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2011, 05:11:53 AM »
On the flip side of this, I'm looking into adopting. My own family (mom's parents) are just as bigoted as your ILs, and I've begun thinking about this topic a lot. Whether or not the adoption process works out, I've decided that DD (who is caucasian, as my GPs are), shouldn't be around people that talk the way my GPs do about other cultures. The things they say are awful, and how they treat people of different cultures is horrible. I tried to write it off as generational, but the truth is, that stuff is taught (which is probably why your SILs think that your MIL's behavior is acceptable).

I've been taught that "a little" racism is acceptable, but the truth is, it's not. The world won't get better if we just tolerate these things. I commend you for standing your ground, and while the circumstances are different, I'm hoping to incorporate a little bit of your assertiveness into my own life.  I simply wouldn't want my kids around people that behave that way, no matter who their behavior is directed at (the fact that your their son's wife just makes it all the more despicable).

Holli,
I totally agree and your wise to feel this way...I wouldn't want my child around anyone who feels this way....


Offline Scoop

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2011, 06:07:31 AM »
Foofoo - what do you want to do?

Do you want to give them a chance, to be able to say "well, at least I gave them a chance"?  Because I can see this becoming a source of bitterness between you and DH and I would hate for that to happen.

My suggestion would be to talk to DH and feel out if he genuinely wants to give them a chance, because they're his family, or if he's coming from a position of 'doing anything' to get back in his parents good books (including throwing his kids under the bus).

Because I don't see a problem with you and DH planning a lunch at a restaurant with the IL's.  See if they can be civil to you, on neutral ground, without the kids.  If not, then you don't have to open that can of worms with the kids.  Then, if their behaviour is acceptable to you, try having a meal out with the kids.  After a few dinners out, maybe consider inviting them to your house.  But do not let your DH take the kids to them without you.

I'm shocked by this whole thread!  The MIL's are telling you that you don't have to associate with your IL's and I'm a DIL telling you to give them a chance!  It must be backwards day.

Good luck!

cremebrulee

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2011, 06:21:37 AM »
Foofoo
I'm sorry y our experiencing this, it must be difficult....I have many friends who are married to Asians....and yes, they're culture can sometimes be very old school, however, all my friends, get along fine with they're inlaws...

Foofoo....your correct in telling your husband he should visit with his parents, and the children should be allowed to see them as well....as long as they are not bigoted in front of the children? 

I would work on you for now, and forgiveness...you don't have to get along, but you do have to work on forgiving they're words and actions....and you don't have to be anywhere you don't want to be....

It took me many years to forgive my son's stepmother for her treatment of my son....however, I still and never will like the woman, and now, I'm at the point, that if she even looks at me crossed eyed, she'd get a real mouthful....she has caused a lot of people a lot of pain....I will never ever allow her to hurt me again....as for my son and his wife, they have to be more connected b/c of his father...but no one likes his wife....believe me....she IS evil...and so is her mother...."learned behavior".

I'm not saying your inlaws are like this, more so, they are probably lost in they're own culture...which is different, however, they to must make amends with themselves....

If I were you, I'd just take it one day at a time, and see what each day brings....but do work on forgiveness....you don't have to like what they did and said, but it is in the past, and perhaps they are starting to see, that they are hurting themselves....in hurting they're son's wife.

Give it time, and work on your right now....miracles do happen...let go of the past, and work on moving forward...

Hugs
Creme

LaurieS

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2011, 08:21:32 AM »

Foofoo....your correct in telling your husband he should visit with his parents, and the children should be allowed to see them as well....as long as they are not bigoted in front of the children? 

If the mother is not accepted in any way shape or white form, then why should her children interact with the grandparents knowing that they hate their mom because she is white.. oh yeah and they are half white and 100% American.  Those kids are an extension of her, and her marriage to their son.  I think the son should say.. my way or the highway to his parents... that is his family that is being damaged by this narrow mindedness.

LaurieS

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2011, 08:44:15 AM »
Holli.. I know what you are talking about with your Grandparents... My parents and in-laws are somewhat like that as well.  My dad has really tried to get on board with the times, we had nicknamed him Archie.  My fil saw the worse in a race when one of his son's was murdered... I can't tell him how to feel, as I don't know if I would be any different given the circumstances.  This same grandpa fought in WWII, so yeah his love of the Japanese as well was nil.  My son's gf's grandfather lost a leg in WWII due to an American, so everyone was trying to hush everyone else up. 

Finally one night at the table I opened the discussion of WWII and how we got to where we are today.  My son's Japanese gf participated in the conversation and I think for the first time Grandpa realized that these two kids were as far removed as they could be.  And I think he could distinguish the difference between the people and the situation that surrounded the war.  Grandpa has spent time with this girl on numerous occasions and I can honestly say that they seem to like each other.. I'm a firm believer that people can work through their issues if they choose to.  Deep down Grandpa will always hate that "Jap" that bombed his beloved Pearl Harbor, and that's ok.. and my son's gf's gp, will always hate that American that cost him a leg.  I think they have both gotten past that.. Oh but I am  thankful that if these two ever get married the grandpas most likely will not both be in attendance :)
 

cremebrulee

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2011, 08:50:48 AM »

Foofoo....your correct in telling your husband he should visit with his parents, and the children should be allowed to see them as well....as long as they are not bigoted in front of the children? 

If the mother is not accepted in any way shape or white form, then why should her children interact with the grandparents knowing that they hate their mom because she is white.. oh yeah and they are half white and 100% American.  Those kids are an extension of her, and her marriage to their son.  I think the son should say.. my way or the highway to his parents... that is his family that is being damaged by this narrow mindedness.

because you don't use the children to penalize the adults....and I don't believe they hate her, I believe due to they're culture they were raised to believe you don't marry out of it...and believe they will eventually come around if Foofoo is up to that, but you don't harbor hate and you don't use the children to punish them....I believe in killing people with kindness...or quiet...and in the end it works out the way it's supposed to....however, if foofoo keeps the children from them, the children may grow up never knowing they're grand parents and that is wrong to...one bad turn does not deserve another...

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 08:52:35 AM by cremebrulee »

Offline Pen

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2011, 08:57:02 AM »
We've got the opposite problem - DIL & FOO from a different culture are always looking for predjudice on our part. It simply does not exist, but it's funny to hear comments about how we likely feel about their food, traditions, skin color, etc. DS constantly reassures them that just because he's white as milk he was not raised in a rascist home, that we admire the people, art, culture, cuisine, music & traditions of their home country. They always seem surprised that we want to eat their food and learn about their culture.

In a way, our attitudes are taking away yet another one of their many excuses for hating us which is probably quite frustrating for DIL's FOO. They really want to be the only ones interacting with DIL & DS (& GC when/if they arrive) and have tried to come up with reasons for cutting us out.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2011, 09:05:39 AM »

Foofoo....your correct in telling your husband he should visit with his parents, and the children should be allowed to see them as well....as long as they are not bigoted in front of the children? 

If the mother is not accepted in any way shape or white form, then why should her children interact with the grandparents knowing that they hate their mom because she is white.. oh yeah and they are half white and 100% American.  Those kids are an extension of her, and her marriage to their son.  I think the son should say.. my way or the highway to his parents... that is his family that is being damaged by this narrow mindedness.

because you don't use the children to penalize the adults....and I don't believe they hate her, I believe due to they're culture they were raised to believe you don't marry out of it...and believe they will eventually come around if Foofoo is up to that, but you don't harbor hate and you don't use the children to punish them....I believe in killing people with kindness...or quiet...and in the end it works out the way it's supposed to....however, if foofoo keeps the children from them, the children may grow up never knowing they're grand parents and that is wrong to...one bad turn does not deserve another...


How can the grandparents not show bigotry in front of the children when their own mother is not welcome in the home.  If they mistreat (FooFoo's sil's word) her constantly then why would you subject your children to that?

Are you saying that the father and children should go over since it is now requested by the grandparents and expect the kids to live a dual life, one that includes and one that excludes their own mother?  If these grandparents are that hateful toward the mother based on the fact that she is not Asian, then I don't see where that is penalizing the grandparents through the kids.  If I am that hated by a person, why  would I send my kids to them?

Offline Pooh

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2011, 09:37:55 AM »
Well, I guess I am really going to blow Scoop's mind!  I was thinking the entire time that I read this, "If they are prejudice against her, and the kids are half her, how are they ever going to accept them?"

Foofoo, I am a GP who is being kept from a GC, so this may shock you, but I wouldn't let them see them either.  I agree with everyone that DH can go visit if he chooses, but protecting your children, as you are, from that type of bigotry is very important.

I am a firm believer that children should be kept from anyone that can truly harm them.  And I mean....TRULY.  Not just because someone doesn't like the other one.  I don't care if it's their Mother, Father, Grandmother, Grandfather, Brother, Sister, etc....if that person can truly harm them, then I wouldn't let them go either.  And to me, bigotry is true harm.

So unless they have a change of heart, and are willing to drop their prejudice against you, then I don't see them not saying harmful racial things to the children.  Because if they don't change and accept you, then they haven't changed.

As far as his sisters go, tell them to mind their own business!  Lol.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

cremebrulee

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2011, 09:57:14 AM »
How do we know they are going to show any kind of bigotry?  How do we know they'd be harmful...the father is going to be there, no one is talking about leaving the kids with them by themselves....?

Foofoo, and correct me if I'm wrong, has already said she is ok with this...and I do believe, the GP's will come around, if they already haven't?  Why not give them a chance? 

Do I think they were wrong, absolutely, however, perhaps they've decided that they were wrong?  There is a whole other way to look at this....why go to the other end of the spectrum and think the worst...isn't mending fences the best thing if they are able....? 

They don't sound harmful to me...yes, they were wrong, and mean at the time, but time has passed and now that the children are there, I bet they're having second thoughts....none of us know that, and the children, might be what mends those fences....

I believe FOOfoo and her husband wouldn't put the children in harm's way, not in the least...and again, I believe her first post said, she was ok with it?

Foofoo, how do you feel?  I got the feeling, that your trying to change this in your own heart...I think your extremely hurt and angry and anyone would be, however, what would you do, if your husband came home and said, they wanted to see you?

And why doesn't your husband tell them, that you all come as a family? 
or is it your decission not to go?

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 09:58:59 AM by cremebrulee »

Offline Pen

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2011, 10:00:08 AM »
Occasional exposure to bigotry can be used as a teachable moment. DH worked with a couple of guys who were horribly rascist, and when the kids & I visited his worksite they'd hear some things. DH & I used those experiences as valuable lessons.

However, I agree that I wouldn't want my kids to hear it coming from the mouths of relatives, especially if the kids themselves are of  whatever the disliked ancestry is. I'd keep the kids away until real progress is made, perhaps forever if they're slow learners.

DH must step up and protect his wife & kids, but he could try to educate his FOO before completely cutting them off; enlightenment is always best, but not always possible. "Know when to fold 'em." -Kenny Rogers
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2011, 10:07:55 AM »
If the grandparents were that interested in the lives of their grandchildren that they do not know, wouldn't it make more sense to ask to see them in the kids own environment.  The grandparents pulled away, put up the blocks, and formed a hatred for someone based on their lack of being Asian. If they really wanted to change, or to show change, does sitting back and saying "well now we are ready to meet them.. bring them to us" reflex a real change?

holliberri

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Re: Looking for a Different Perspective
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2011, 10:17:12 AM »
No, Laurie, I don't think it does at all. I think that very statement is synonymous with why the SILs say that mistreatment is normal. I see a lot of control issues in FooFoo's post, aside from the blantant racism. Does this mean that FooFoo could be mistreated for something else? What about the kids? Will they be mistreated.

Pen,

I agree with you that racism can be a teaching opportunity; it does go on in our world  :( and kids do need to know how to handle it properly (and to learn that they themselves, can to do that).  I just couldn't stomach that it would come from their GPs, as you said. I don't know how I could teach about that without harming the kids' identity (and like it or not, a big part of identity comes from our FOO and howwe were raised).