Lost for Words

[LaurieS]

Thanks holliberri....we have to start talking first ,but I appreciate your input .
what I hate is the fact we MIL 's have to roll over and submit !
The DIL has the power of my son and grandchild hovering over me ,and it seems to me she relishes that fact .If she doesn't agree for me to see my grandchild then she has won .My son is a gentle giant and is bewitched .I don't want to come between him and his partner ,all I wanted was to be part of my grandchild's life . As the months went on this became less and less until I snapped I suppose .I objected to them spending Xmas and New Year with her family .Big mistake ! I was supposed to accept the crumbs that were given . So I am supposed to sit and wait until the all power deems to throw me some more crumbs ....I might just starve waiting .!
Thankyou ladies for letting me rant .It alternates with the tears ...I hate being weak !

You aren't weak.. you're hurt.

[holliberri]

Thanks holliberri....we have to start talking first ,but I appreciate your input .
what I hate is the fact we MIL 's have to roll over and submit !
The DIL has the power of my son and grandchild hovering over me ,and it seems to me she relishes that fact .If she doesn't agree for me to see my grandchild then she has won .My son is a gentle giant and is bewitched .I don't want to come between him and his partner ,all I wanted was to be part of my grandchild's life . As the months went on this became less and less until I snapped I suppose .I objected to them spending Xmas and New Year with her family .Big mistake ! I was supposed to accept the crumbs that were given . So I am supposed to sit and wait until the all power deems to throw me some more crumbs ....I might just starve waiting .!
Thankyou ladies for letting me rant .It alternates with the tears ...I hate being weak !

I think you'll get to talking to her again, and believe it or not, there probably will be another issue that will need discussing (sigh...). I think this is a newborn baby, correct? If so, it's still very very early, and I don't think the dust has even remotely settled yet. Step back, not to give them space, but to give yourself space. You are NOT weak, and you're entitled to your tears. I relate my situation to yours for one and one reason only: the time factor. Look at what this year has brought you: new baby AND a wedding.  For me, the baby was a LOOONG time in coming, but I think my MIL and I weren't given enough time to work out our issues before DH and I were married. I only met her once, and we dated while DH was living very far from her. Then, we were getting married the next time I met her.  HUGE adjustment, and we all were thrown into new roles at once. Lots of toes were/are being stepped on. MIL never had any time to adjust to her DS having a girlfriend, let alone a wife, and then she had to get used to this stranger being a wife. Not only to you have to get used to ALL of that, but then you have to get used to being a new grandmother as well. Unbelievable amount of change if you ask me. Even if it was a perfect transition, I think a few tears still need to be shed.

As for the holidays, it is not fair, but I think showing your objections about the holidays might be counterproductive.  While it does certainly seem to be a power struggle (given the statement about carrying a baby for 9 mths and being closer with DIL's family), don't push back. Your feelings are totally valid, and I can understand the pain you're going through, but showing her that your upset about the holidays might make her dig her heels in further. It was one year, you don't know what is to come next year...have some hope!

Also, my DH is a gentle giant too, but when he thinks it is warranted, he fights for his family. You'd be surprised. Have faith.

[holliberri]

Holliberri.. I know that things are not perfect with your own MIL, but I do appreciate how much of yourself you're putting into trying to understand and make things work. I love how you express yourself while leaving out your emotional side.. did you say that you're in law school? 

Over dinner our conversation was  about  parental weight, 9 mths vs sperm... general  consensus was that a woman who would use her pregnancy as leverage would probably be the same one telling a judge one day that the sperm donor should pay a higher percentage of his salary for the welfare of the child, if the couple were to separate.  Came down in our conversation that  unrealistic people were often unrealistic while straddling both sides of the fence.

Haha, edit buttons work wonders, I tell you! I was in law school, but not anymore. It just wasn't for me, I've since been working and going to grad school for business.

The 9 month thing irritates me to no end. My DH suffered from low fertility and we went through one failed in-vitro attempt. Then I had 2 miscarriages (no meds), before I had DD. After undergoing every test imaginable, I finally found a doctor who wasn't surprised at all that I had 2 miscarriages b/c my husband had low fertility.  He said they're only now just linking sperm to pregnancy loss, and the evidence seems to suggest that it is a HUGE factor in maintaining a pregnancy.

So, no, my husband's work certainly was not *done* after I became pregnant. He took vitamins and lost weight for us to maintain our 3rd pregnancy. Unfortunately, it took them years to figure this out b/c it was assumed that it was ALL the woman's responsibility after conception. So, those sperm account for a lot more than we previously thought...just about half of a baby, who knew???!    It is thanks go my DH's changes that DD is here at all I think. Men deserve a lot more credit than they've previously gotten. Maybe with some more research we can kick the idea that a woman does it all by herself once and for all.

[forever spring]

What you are saying hollibery speaks to me. I'm so glad I joined this website because it puts me in a community of women with similar issues. To have a voice from the DIL's perspective is really priceless. I think my DIL would go along with what you are saying. I now think that I should have been the 'wise one' because after all I am the one with life experience behind me - not much good this time, I'm afraid. But the fact that it is not too late is very comforting indeed and I try not to beat myself up over it, as there is still time to change. 
I think it is realistic to  expect further conflict because of the tremendous changes that come with adopting new roles etc. It really takes it out of everybody emotionally and unlike a lot of other relationships, 'there is nowhere to hide'. Wow! I hope I can deal with them better now than of late.
But flip the coin to positive: What a tremedous enrichment of life experience, especially when there is a HAPPY ENDING to be hoped for and new lives will bring new joys.

[lancaster lady]

You sound like an ideal DIL holliberri .......my problems are totally different to yours .
Mr son and his girlfriend have been together for four years and during that time we all got on pretty well . When their relationship became serious she decided to alienate his flatmate who had been his friend for years .He duly moved out ! My son and him remained friends until his friend took a partner .My future DIL then decided to alienate her .Which leaves my son in a difficult place ,this was to be his best man !
I feel anyone who is too close to my son becomes a target .Of course with my slip of the tongue that was her excuse to target me .Then when the baby arrived the torture began a little twist here and there.This is one clever little lady slowly but surely we are being alienated .I hope me lovely son is strong enough to fight for his family ,it's the waiting which is torture .!
My thanks to Laurie for her kindness it means a lot ..x

[Faithlooksup]

Hi Lancaster Lady and Welcome......I am sorry this is happening to you and believe it or not this is nothing new to us!!!   Please understand that no matter what you say or do is not going to work or change anything with her.....You are simply going to have to back off totally and somehow let your son handle things, it may take a while~~but let him intervene (sometimes they do get the courage and speak out to their spouse.)  For if you continue keeping in touch she is only going to become angrier with you so dont give her any more ammunition.

I dont understand what is going on with these kids anymore, I would of never thought of doing to my parents what our grown children are doing to us--I beat myself up for years, wondering "what and where did I go wrong?"  Until I finially realised, I diden't do anything wrong--it is them...it is NOT us......I realise this is not going to mend your heart that is filled with pain...but right now you must move forward without them, I know easier said than done....but it is the best and only thing you can do for yourself at this point....no more communication unless if your son calls, talk casually--No questions about girlfriend.....talk about the baby etc.....

Sending hugs across the miles.....Faith

[holliberri]

You sound like an ideal DIL holliberri .......my problems are totally different to yours .
Mr son and his girlfriend have been together for four years and during that time we all got on pretty well . When their relationship became serious she decided to alienate his flatmate who had been his friend for years .He duly moved out ! My son and him remained friends until his friend took a partner .My future DIL then decided to alienate her .Which leaves my son in a difficult place ,this was to be his best man !
I feel anyone who is too close to my son becomes a target .Of course with my slip of the tongue that was her excuse to target me .Then when the baby arrived the torture began a little twist here and there.This is one clever little lady slowly but surely we are being alienated .I hope me lovely son is strong enough to fight for his family ,it's the waiting which is torture .!
My thanks to Laurie for her kindness it means a lot ..x

Your problems may indeed be totally different than mine; but I'm not sure I've given anyone on here an inkling as to what my problems might be, still getting the courage to post. No matter how long DS has been dating her, this new time period is bringing fast, sudden changes for all. I don't think she is handling it correctly, but she is to a certain extent, exploring a newly acquired role.

She may very well alienate everyone in his life, but have courage, if she's doing that, eventually (maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next year), he'll see that. The problem with alienation is that it becomes painfully obvious once no one is left. People that alienate will always need someone to alienate; if they're really good at it, they run out of people. Then what?

Also, your DS is exploring a new role too: learning to be DH and new father.  We do a very good job of teaching our kids that their "loyalty" is to their spouse and their own children.  Not a bad thing, but kids need to learn exactly what that loyalty means, and what it doesn't. It takes time, and they need to sort that out for themselves. I really think he'll see what is happening, and be able to stand up for you. The right kind of loyalty takes practice and self-respect.

Can you do me a favor? You said something in your post about a "slip of of the tongue" and you said you "snapped" in an earlier post. If alienation is her true method... can you see that you really did NONE of those things? Alienation would happen one way or another, and I think you're taking on more of the blame in this than you deserve. Adding space to this issue (especially since it sounds like she won't talk to you anyhow), may give you exactly the clarity you need, to own up to true blue mistakes and then not feel bad about it anymore; not only being fair to her but to yourself. It might allow you to recognize that you did all you can do, and you can't just change who you are for her. You can't feel guilty about what you did/said (and you already apologized for something you didn't really say to boot), b/c you're giving the person that is alienating you exactly what they want. She's demonstrating incredible power here with very little communication; she's not entitled to that.

I know you said earlier that MILs just have to submit, and I would say MILs do have a lot new things to get used to, but not this. You don't need to lose your own self-respect in the process, and I think you're in a lot of pain. Don't make it harder on yourself by beating yourself up. What the other ladies are saying to do will equip you with exactly what you need to get through this. I will be thinking of you in the coming days, b/c it isn't easy. Best of luck.

[Eva]

welcome lancaster lady
I am sorry for your pain

when I read what you wrote here couple of red flags come to my mind
as it was in our situation
1-beginning very good friendly -
as she was on her best to know us all and get as much information from us
so she used latter to her benefits
2-alienation from family and friends-
like a poison with her little lies here and there  against each other,
one by one we were out of son's life

3-your son=baby father can not be in relationship one on one with his baby

my advise to you
concentrate relationship with your son-
send son e-mail, or call him asking for a picture of his baby

[JaneF]

It is nice to hear from a DIL, and to see what her point of view is. I am a MIL that for a dozen years (since the DS and DIL got together and got pregnant as teens) has always kept a low profile and just accepted the fact that DIL's FOO got all holiday time, grankids birthdays, school photos and programs etc. We got the crumbs, but it was better than nothing, and also I figure that once DS got married and had kids he needed to put wife and kids first. Not a problem. When I married my husband (second husband) we tried to keep relationship with both sides of the family. I am a grandmother that would like to get a school photo every year (or photos that are taken of any kind), and I would be very willing to buy some to help if needed. But my DS and DIL have given me MAYBE 4 or 5 pictures total of both grandaughters, and the oldest is 12 years old! I have never gone to a school program of hers, but her family attends all. I have never mentioned that to them just to keep peace. I have been to one birthday party for each of those grandaughters, never invited to the rest...her family attends all. Again, I never say a word. I have always bought Christmas gifts, Easter stuff, Valentines stuff, and birthday stuff (my DIL EXPECTS it, and lets us know every time her family gives them anything). So now DS and DIL refuse to have a thing to do with our side of the family at all, including aunts, uncles, his siblings etc. DS has said to us it is because WE do not do enough for them or give them enough! They quit communicating with us in August. I sent 1 text, saying Merry Christmas, and one to grandaughter last week to say happy birthday. No other communication has been initiated, I leave them alone totally. They did not respond of course, but I did not expect them too either. I feel okay because I at least did that much, and I do not expect anything in return. I have gone on with my life and I do have several other grandchildren I get to have a relationship with. I do not understand why this has happened, but my happiness does not depend on anyone else! I do not owe those adult kids anything. My bet is when DIL gets mad at DS, or vice versa, one of them will call. I will not be drawn in by that because I refuse to be treated rudely by them and then let them back in to do the same thing again when they make up. Since reading so much on this web site I feel I have learned a lot. I know everyone reacts to situations differently, and we all have to do what we feel is best for us. For me the best thing was setting boundaries and moving on. I hope you all have a wonderful new year, and I am thankful for your wise words.

[LaurieS]

Wow Jane.. your post gave us a lot to think about.  I agree we do need to set boundaries and live within them... Like you, I do and at the same time be kind and understanding towards everyone.  I'm glad you have other children, their spouses and grandkids to help make your life feel blessed.

I don't know if I can agree 100% with Faith in one area.  If I'm speaking with my son, I don't feel that I should totally avoid his wife/gf and children in conversation.  I'm not saying to ridicule but to ask how someone is doing etc is not wrong.  If I were in conversation exclude their existence, I feel that I may be only seeing my son in his pre-relation state.  I feel that part of telling your child that you are there if they need you is meaning that you are there for all of him, which his family is now a part of him and can not be excluded at will.  Hmmm does that make sense?

[luise.volta]

It makes sense to me in theory. Lots of things do. In practice, that's something else again. Each moment is different, each interaction unique. I forget my formulae.

[lancaster lady]

I thank you all ,and can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice .It really helps me to feel other women feel what I am going through .I am amazed how common this really is .All my friends seem to have great relationships with  their DIL,I envy them .The wedding is planned for later in the year and no one has mentioned it lately .I am afraid what my answer would be .How can you celebrate the joining of two people when one of them won't speak to you .Thankyou Holliberri your advice made me feel so much better .Yes I was beating myself up thinking what I should have done etc .I feel I am a warm kind loving person who has never fallen out with anyone in my life ! So this has hit me like a ton of bricks .My grandchild is 1 year old next month and have requested to see her .That sentence is madness to my eyes ,to have to request to see your own granddaughter .My own grandmother was like a second mom to me and she let me know how much I was loved .The same relationship I would have liked for mine .I don't know if I am being tested or not but future DIL is posting photos of my granddaughter on FB. Is this to make me feel bad at what I am missing ,or to keep me in touch ? Probably the latter .Yes I am in touch with DS as I love him dearly and ask about the welfare of my granddaughter to let him know I still love and care for her welfare .I have the support of the rest of my family who keep me sane ,along with you my new found friends .I live in hope of a solution ,I know she is waiting for me to make  the first move in reconcilliation ,but I too have my pride .In standing firm I believe lets her know her behaviour is unacceptable  but at what cost ?

[neecee]

Dear LL:  The world seems to be the same all over thanks to the internet.  This DIL is the worst kind.  I have the gift of hindsight...now.  Like you, I saw so many red flags from the odd way my kids announced their intentions to each other, the wedding day, to the birth of their kids...the list goes on and on.  Their insistence on "talk to her" no "talk to me" is just more evidence of their nuttiness.  You got blindsided because there is no intention of malice in you.  I am sure you were just going along in the excitement of the moment.
My DIL "trained" us early on not to be too involved with her children...then was unforgiveably furious when we "didn't even compete" to spend time with the babies.  We were waiting to be invited.  Can't win this one dearie.
I agree with Holliberri...we almost always just talk to be talking.  When someone takes every word said and re-writes the intention, it is virtually impossible to defend yourself, since it was their intention to find something nasty - real or invented.  It supports their personal life script.

[Scoop]

Holy cats!  I think I'm the only one who can see that Lancaster has some responsibility here too.

By your own words
- you are hesitant to celebrate their wedding.  I'm sure SIL knows it too.  Why not be glad that they are confirming their intentions to live as a family?  Why not be glad that your GC is going to have a more formally joined family?

- you think DIL is posting pictures with the intention of making you feel bad.  I can tell you that she's posting pictures, because she thinks they're cute, and she wants ALL of the people on her friends list to see them.  It's not about you at all.

- you have your pride, well ... I hope it keeps you warm at night

- you snapped ... you had a slip of the tongue - I wonder what that means?

- you complained about them spending Christmas and New Year's with her family.  Sadly, this is not your battle, this is your son's battle - if he wanted to spend Christmas or New Year's with you, he should have fought for it.

- you were talking about her to your son, that's why she wanted you to talk to her directly.  When my MIL talks to my DH about me, I feel like she's "telling on me" and trying to cause trouble in my marriage.  I would much prefer that, if she has a problem with me, that she bring it up to me.  But she should also be ready to hear what I think too.

- you made a statement that could have been taken 2 ways by DIL, she took it the "wrong" way and you're blaming her.  If you cared what she thought, you would have been horrified that you hurt her inadvertently.  The feeling I'm getting (and maybe what your DIL got too) was that you were thinking "if the shoe fits?".  Is this the statement that you consider the "slip of the tongue" or was there something else, before the baby was born?

- you admit you went overboard with "stuff" for the baby.  This can be perceived as smothering by some women, or worse, that you're trying to usurp their power/rights as "the mother".

Also, you make judgmental comments about her being over-protective of the baby.  I'm sure she knows how you feel and as a just-right-protective Mom, I'll tell you that when people say I'm over-protective, I just think that they must be UNDER-protective and do I want them around my kid?  Not so much.

I know I'm reading between the lines here A LOT.  But I just wanted to put a different spin on what you've told us, because I can see where, if you don't have a good relationship with your DIL, she will take things "the wrong way".  And this doesn't even include any of the things that you've done to annoy DIL that you don't even know about.  This is just what I've inferred from these short messages.

And from both sides, both you and DIL have been hurt.  Your relationship is like a piece of wood that's had a bunch of nails driven into it.  You can apologize to each other and remove the nails all you want, but there are still holes left behind.  In order to move forward, you would BOTH have to be willing to walk on eggshells around each other and BOTH try and be less sensitive about your hot buttons.  It sounds like a tall order, but I don't see that you should feel hopeless.  She hasn't banned you from her facebook and she's waiting for you to make the next step.  So maybe if you admitted that you are responsible for 50% of the failure of the relationship, you could both move forward.

Good luck - I think you'll need it.

[lancaster lady]

OUCH !
The original remark was made on FB for my Siblings .My DIL thought it was for her it was in no way offensive to anyone .She phoned my son to complain .I then phoned her to apologise and offer an explanation .my remark was '' hooray for FB .lets me know what my kids are up to '' would you find this offensive ? She insisted it was meant for her no matter how many times I said it wasn't !she then sent me an offensive email more or less calling me a liar .How would you respond ? My daughter became involved against my wishes and so on and so on .This was my GC first xmas .after weeks about asking about their plans I was told we don't know what we are doing .I knew they were spending Xmas at her folks but hoped they would visit  .or we could visit afterwards .The reason I conversed with my son beacause I was told not to upset her .
This is a lot more complex than you see on paper ,and I have tried initially to make things right .,without success .
holliberri has described my DIL  exactly as she is ,sorry you can't see that .
I hope we make things up and yes I would like to go to the wedding but not if I'm not welcome .