At my wits end

[farrelly80]

I am at my wits end, I dont know what to do now and I feel as though its all my fault althought my DH says not. My eldest son met his GF when he was at Uni and when he took his finals she found out she was pregnant. We have supported them from then on. Spent a lot of time with GS who is a little sweetie.We are a big family but she has never really joined in  (says shes shy) About 2 years ago DS was fed up as she would not get a job and he was working his butt off to make ends meet. he had an affair and she found out. He told his Dad and asked him not to tell me but as we are a really close couple he did but told DS and Gf that he had. That was it they never came near for weeks despite lots of calls and arguments, said his Dad had let him down. Things calmed down and we could see the GS but my Ds never came near. They would not come to any family weddings, christenings etc. It all came to a head before Xmas when I told Ds I was not happy with the way he was treating us I wanted to know why he wouldnt phone or come round He showed GF the e-mail and she  went mental at me and now refuses to let us see GS. If only I had kept my mouth shut maybe at least we could still be seeing our little GS. WHat can I do my friends and family say leave them to it he will realise she is a manipulative woman and so nasty to keep a GS from his Grandparents. But I am at my wits end....help

[LaurieS]

Welcome Farrelly80
My unprofessional opinion is simple.  Your son and dil can not have an honest relationship with you until they can be honest with each other.  These two have a lot to figure out between themselves and until they do it will continue to effect every aspect of their lives, including parenting and family.  This is where you step back and once they have run out of people to blame they will hopefully start taking responsibility.  Wishing you luck.

[luise.volta]

My Take" Has your husband apologized for breaking a confidence? Have you for interfering in something you had not been made privy to? To me, this is a "he said/she said" thing that is destroying a family. Their ups and downs are part of growing up and none of your business. You can't go there. IMHO his dad should have told him that and told you nothing. I would try to repair that if it's possible. Sending love...

[cremebrulee]

Welcome farrelly80

yanno, one of the hardest things to do, is to keep your mouth shut as a mother...but we learn, however, in your case, I don't think you did anything wrong by asking son....and I'd have to ask him...."you know DIL better then anyone, and yet, you showed her this email from your mother, even though you knew she'd go balistic over it?"  Where is he coming from...

They are both acting very selfish and immature...and regardless of what happened, your DIL would have taken that child from you anyway, it was only a matter of time....any woman, would understand, a mother asking a son what you asked...her spazing out over it, tells me, she was looking for something so that she could do this?  And what she has done, and son has allowed her to do, is heartless and unthinking...but both of them are to blame....please remember that....

So, for now, what I'd do, is let them alone, and work it out, and never allow them to treat you less then you deserve...believe me, they will need you some day, and that will be your trump card, and then you lay down the boundaries...and tell them right out...you will never be treated like that again, and mean it...

Now, that is what I'd do, however, that is me, and maybe this doesn't work for your situation...so, please feel free to take what works for you only...

and I agree with Luise, you husband should have never told you....especially when he said he wouldn't...that is a trust broken....however, it still doesn't merrit how they are treating you...give them time, a lot of time...and back away...see what happens and work from there....

Your son is probably very very embarrassed that your husband told you...and he should be...really, seriously, you don't run around on your spouse, period. and they have got some very serious issues to contend with...if you stay away from it, they can't blame you for anything more, and they're anger is definately misdirected....

That's my take?

Good Luck
Creme

[seasage]

Welcome farrelly80.,
 
I also have an unprofessional opinion.  I honestly don't think your present predicament has anything to do with your DH telling you about DS's affair.  I think that is just an excuse.  The simple fact is that your DS is in the doghouse with GF, may be there for a long time, and thus GF sets the rules.  Any changes in your relationship with DS and GS have to go through her. 

Furthermore, although your friends and family think/hope that DS may eventually realize GF is manipulative, my advice is don't hold your breath waiting for this to happen. 

My opinion is that all you can do is apologize to DS & GF and step back.  The apology may not cool her anger, but it may deflect it off your back.  You really don't deserve it. 

seasage

[LaurieS]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting something here.. but we do not know if the son requested that his father not say anything before or after his announcement of infidelity.  I could not tell by the op if she approached her son concerning his choices of having sex with others.  And this email that became such an issue, I took it that you were asking why the avoidance not if he was proud of himself for cheating on his wife.

I don't fault the father telling the mother about the son's affair.... after all it is her son as well and if they were good parents through the years they probably stood united throughout their son's life.  This would be a totally unfair situation to place his own father in... what if he had told his parents and then asked that they not tell his wife?  If he did not want anyone to know they maybe he would have kept it to himself, but to now turn mom into the family beating boy isn't the answer either.  I'm still back to saying that unless I misunderstood the email spoke about only the avoidance.

[farrelly80]

Hi Thanks for your interest, I have never spoke to my DS about his affair, just told him to sort it out and I would support him and his GF. Yes he  did ask his Dad not to tell me but that was unfair as my DH was upset for him and I could tell. Maybe on reflection he should not have but he has apologised to them both but GF wont accept it. She has just got nastier and nastier and yes her keeping our GS from us was probably going to happen anyway. It breaks my heart not to see him but it is making me ill thinking off it all the time. |I know that the only way forward is to let go and hope that DS will bring GS round to see us but I dont hold out much hope. I will try to be brave and stop crying, Im very lucky I have a close family round me who are all furious with them but are trying to keep out of it in case it makes it worse. Although non of them know about the affair so they are all a bit bewildered by whats happened.  One of the worst things is DS has not seen his little brother for over a year as GF doesnt like his fiancee.
Anyway thanks for letting me have a rant, its better than keep getting upset.x

[seasage]

P.S.  I have been thinking about your situation.  Suddenly it seems so close to mine!

First, cherish your DH.  He is totally honest to everyone in the family.  That's why he shared with you, and then told DS and GF that he had.  There is no blame, no shame, here.  My own DH is the same, and your story has helped me to realize that this is a wonderful man.

Next, I wonder if you think this is a good idea?  I wonder if a written apology - in the form of a simple card sent to your DS and GF - would be appropriate?  I know that I can be terribly old-fashioned in these things.  But email is often so casual and so easy to misunderstand.  I like the card that can be opened for a real apology.  My DH and I have done this for our DS's GF in the past.  (Card was accompanied by flowers.)  Now the fact is that GF never responded to us, but DS told us that it was appreciated.  And so I am pretty sure that you could repair your relationship with your DS by such a gesture, even if his GF forever holds you in contempt.  (Ours still does, even after 5 years.)

Best wishes to you,
seasage

P.P.S.  We repaired our relationship to the point that DS spent 3 days with us at Thankgivings - flew here across the country on a redeye to see us - even though his 'significant other' refused to come.  She still won't talk to us, won't acknowledge gifts or communications, refuses to allow us to come to their home when she is there, etc and so on.  But DS makes time for us when we are in the area, comes to lunch or dinner with us, clearly wants to be with his parents.  Hopefully you too will be able to repair your relationship with your DS, and hopefully that will include your GS.
.

[Pen]

Farrelly80, I'm sorry you're going through this. Using the GC to get back at the parents is really tacky. Welcome and best wishes.

I guess I disagree with some of my WWU buddies here - I don't think anyone should ever be asked to keep something from their spouse/partner. When I'm tempted to tell a friend something in confidence I remember that she/he quite possibly will pass it on to their mate. If that is too risky for me I keep the item to myself.

Also, I'm confused about the GF's anger towards you - what the heck did you do to her?? Did I miss something?

Your goal is to get back in good graces w/ DS so you can see your GC so apologies may be needed but I don't know for what...from my reading it sounds as if you were telling DS you didn't like HIS treatment of you. When DS showed your email to GF, SHE went ballistic. Whaaa???

Regarding a possible apology, Seasage seems to have a successful approach. At some point, when you feel it's safe to voice your opinion again, it should be made clear that you & DH will not be keeping secrets from one another and that DS & DIL should be honest w/each other as well.

[holliberri]

If you kept your mouth shut? Nah. This has nothing to do with you at all! Don't worry about that. I am sorry you're in the middle of something you shouldn't be in though.

I tried to tell my mom something, and she stopped me, and told me that what I told her I could guarantee my dad would find out about. (They are divorced by the way--but still act like a together set of parents!). She said it wasn't fair for me to expect she wouldn't say anything. Maybe that is the case, here?

Regardless, when everyone your DD and his GF are angry at have disappeared, they'll start dealing with who they are really angry at: themselves.

Sorry about little GS, not only b/c you have been cut off but b/c he must be under a lot of stress in that household. Maybe when they see this and decide to work on their issues, they will come back. I hope so.

[LaurieS]

I could not imagine my dh intentionally keeping a secret such as this from me.  He and my son once thought they would hide a speeding ticket, they claimed that they didn't want to hear me rag on them about it.... Well I ragged about the ticket (hubby told son it was ok to exceed the limit on that road) and then I ragged even more about the secret.  Secrets can hurt.. Look at my father-in-law who was scammed out of 6,500.00 a couple of months ago because he felt important by attempting to keep what he thought was a secret.

But yes you have to wonder about the misplaced anger on this issue.  What, the couple who was unfaithful to each other are angry with someone who heard about it afterwards?  And because he cheated on her, she is going to withhold grandparent visitation with the grandchild? The part I'm still trying to comprehend is why did the gf not being employed force him to cheat on her?  As I said originally.. this couple have quite few issues that they need to work on.. doesn't sound to me like they are anywhere near capable of being honest with themselves. There is no purpose in you or your dh to join into their life of secrets, pain, and lies.

[luise.volta]

To me, the way to handle confidentiality, is when the person says...."Don't tell Mom this, but..." the response should be, "Then don't tell me....she is my partner. And by the way, don't ever tell me something and then after the fact tell me not to tell your mom. Got it?"

I seems to me that the dad in the instance was asked to keep it secret...said "OK" and then broke his word. Was that the case?

No one can play "he said/she said" if that procedure is followed. Variations...are "Let's get your mom in on this before we go any further.." etc. Sending love...

[LaurieS]

I don't know if my kids would think to approach either of us with a life altering secret to be kept from the other.  I would hope that most parents would never agree to these terms upfront but not being there it's anyones guess as to how this was approached.  It's possible that dad thought it was going to be something totally unimportant and casually agreed.  Either way, no child or adult child should attempt to push that wedge into his parents relationship.  Doesn't it make you wonder what would have happened if dh hadn't said anything.. do you think the final outcome would have changed.. I doubt it.

[Pooh]

First, welcome Farrelly.  My and my DH so had this happen to us on a smaller level.  I am with those that said, children and others shouldn't expect a couple that communicates to keep major secrets.  I would have thought my kids and everyone would know that about me and DH because we are so intune to each other and talk about everything.

My YS is in the Army and I pay all his bills for him.  He supplies the money to his account, and I pay his bills as he doesn't always have internet access where he is at.  He asked me and I have never minded.  In the beginning, he was cutting it close every month.  All of a sudden, he had money and was spending it.  About the 4th month, he didn't leave enough in there for me to pay a bill.  I had him call me and we had a lonnnnnggg conversation about it.  I told him I would bail him out this ONE time, but next time, he would have to explain to Ford why he didn't make his car payment, because I wouldn't do it again.  So I deposited $50 to cover it and life went on. 

Two months later, my DH and I were standing on our deck grilling and he was as anxious as a cat.  I asked him about work and such, thinking he would eventually tell me what was up.  He is so laid back normally, that I knew something was wrong.  Finally he turned around and blurted out, "I did something and I know you are going to be mad, and I know he is going to be mad, but I can't stand not telling you...it's killing me!"  He admitted that my YS had called him and told him he knew he had just spent to much money and when I went to pay his bills in a couple of days, I was going to know.  So he asked my DH if he would please let him borrow $100, but please do not tell my Mom.  My DH said he was very torn because he knew he shouldn't, but he was also feeling very good that my YS accepted him enough to call and ask him (being the stepfather).  So he gave him the same speach I did about only doing it once, and agreed he wouldn't tell me.  Now, it was eating my DH alive and he finally couldn't take it any longer.

I wasn't mad at him.  I was angry at my YS for putting him in that position.  I could understand how badly my DH wanted to help him, but knew he shouldn't.  It wasn't fair of my YS to do that to DH. 

So, I agreed not to let YS know that I knew, and DH agreed he would never do that again.  He said, "Next time, I am telling him that he knows we talk about everything, and that I could not do that again.  That he would be happy to loan him the money, after discussing it with you."  It was very hard for me not to say something to my YS, but I didn't want him to feel that DH had broke his confidence.

Three months later, my YS finally fessed up on his own.  He had apparently been feeling bad about it every since he had done it.  He finally told me one day on the phone, what he had done, and said, "It was very wrong of me to do that.  But I don't want you to be mad at DH for not telling you.  It was my fault."  I explained that it was very unfair of him to put DH in that position and that I appreciated his honesty in telling me.  He even told me that DH told him he would only do it this one time and never again.  I kept my mouth shut and never told YS that DH had told me.  I didn't want him to feel like DH broke his word, but I also didn't want DH to feel I was mad at him for what he did.  He was so caught in the middle and I saw where he was coming from.

Just like my situation, it was very unfair of your DS to do that to him.  I agree with Laurie, they have some major issues to deal with and I also agree with everyone, this has nothing to do with you guys.  GF is hurt and taking it out on you and your DH because she is mad at him.  Misplaced anger is the hardest to deal with and swallow.  Step back and let them work out their problems.  The more you push at this point, the further away GF is going to go, because she is hurt and angry at DS.  Infidelity is a very painful thing to deal with.  Not excusing her keeping GC away from you, because that is wrong of her, but she doesn't know which way to turn right now.  Give it some time.

[holliberri]

Is it possible, that she may be aware that you both know of what happened between her and DS? I know a few women going through the same thing and they avoid their DH's family, not due to anything personal, but b/c they are ashamed of what is going on and not sure what is going to be said or how everyone is going to behave.

Pooh, I think your story is an excellent example of "truth" coming out eventually; we don't have to anything or say anything, it just comes out, clears the air and life goes on from there. DS's guilt is likely what will prevent him from doing that ever again; that has probably been more effective than talking to him about it initially. Sometimes, sitting back and biding time is all you can do. It's still tough though.