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Was done....NOW totally done

Started by Pooh, November 22, 2010, 07:41:12 AM

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MrsKitty

Maybe it might be a good idea to adopt a new tradition this year--men in charge of clean up duties!   :)

Maybe you should also suggest to DS that he and his DW talk about rotating Thanksgiving between his wife's family and yours (one year at hers, one year at his) so that they do not feel obligated to rush to 2 different homes on Thanksgiving. Like I said, this does not sound like a very fun day for them (can you imagine driving from your home, to a second home then to a third home, then all the way back to your home in a single day? Are they traveling long distances? Possibly with snow on the ground?).

They probably get negative vibes from both your side and her side because both sides feel upset that they didn't get enough "time" with the couple. Then, the couple gets angry because no matter what, someone will always be upset even though they have driven all over the place, spread themselves very thin and worn themselves out on a day that is supposed to be relaxing and fun for them (it is their Holiday too!). You don't want your DS and DIL to feel that they can't win with you no matter what they do--this is when many people get frustrated and just give up (and stop visiting at all).

You may also consider that this new family will be starting their own traditions (like eating Thanksgiving at their own house) that do not fall into the family traditions that you established with your family when you married and had your children. If and when they do start establishing their own traditions and family unit, I hope that you will be gracious and not take this as a personal attack. Good luck.

Pooh

Sorry Mrs Kitty, I appreciate your insights, but not true in our case.  They live in the same town with both grandparents.  10 minutes away from one, and 5 from the other.  Again, they have never been pressured to do anything on holidays, and are always asked.  And no snow, 75 degrees right now.  And yes, I know exactly how it feels.  Did it for 20 years, for 4 houses on Thanksgiving (divorced parents) and Christmas which is why we do not pressure them.

I think you missed the fact that I am not mad at them for not coming, or making other plans, just for not letting anyone know one way or the other.

I am perfectly fine with them not coming, just not fine with their rudeness of not answering.


Thanks Creme, missed you guys too!  We are going to Nassau and Freeport with one day at sea.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

MrsKitty

Dear Pooh-
Sorry my post was not helpful.

I didn't miss what you said. Rather, I've noticed that often people say they're upset about one thing--but they're really upset about something else. Little things in your post (like mentioning the traditions of the holiday--how things have always done for decades, etc.) led me to think that maybe you are really upset that they are not upholding your family's traditions, but that the rudeness of their not replying was something you could point to as a concrete behavior that you did not like.

As my advice was not helpful to you, I hope that some other MIL might find my comments helpful. I have a really nice relationship with my MIL and I think it is because I do my best to see things from her perspective and she does her best to see things from my perspective. We don't always agree and neither of us requires that type of agreement (or submission) of the other.

I was hoping to offer a DIL's perspective that might help you or others to understand the other side of the coin. I think that often, people perceive slights where none were intended and as a result, tensions can rise and people can develop bad relationships because they don't stop to think that the other person's goal is just to live their life (not to make yours miserable). Good luck.

Pooh

I totally appreciate your suggestions MrsKitty.  I truly do.  I didn't take offense to anything you said.  I always try to see the other side and appreciate when a DIL presents that to me.  There have been many times where I say after reading something, "Hmmm didn't think about that."

I just have to draw the line at total rudeness.  And to me, that is what this is, from both my DS and DIL by not replying at all, so my Mother could decided how much food.  And this has been on ongoing issue.  And no, I am not mad at anything but the rudeness.  Considering we have not seen them in almost a year, and we live about an hour away, I have no expectations of anything anymore when it comes to them attending family funcations.  I have not even seen their new house because in May, when I last spoke to my son on the phone, I told him I would love to see their new house, but understood how hard it was getting settled in a new place, so would wait for an invitation to visit.  We are very unintrusive and believe in letting them live their own lives.  I don't think a reply after 3 weeks is too much to ask so that my Mother can plan food quantities.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

MrsKitty

I agree that getting a reply is 100% not too much to ask. It sounds like your son has not been very polite or thoughtful of his relationship with you. That is something that he needs to work on, and I don't know what you might be able to do to encourage him to be more responsive/polite/thoughtful. If I were you, I would try to address this with your son. I would ask him how he would feel if he invited you to a dinner (dare to dream) and you failed to respond so that he could plan properly. I wouldn't lay any blame at the DIL's door for the lack of response, as in my opinion, it really is your DS's job to maintain his relationship with his parents.

I used to bug my DH to call his mom more so that she would know that he was thinking about her. One day, a light came over my head and I realized that I can't foster his relationship with his Mom if he's not willing to put the work in. I mean, when in his life has he ever told me to call my mom? Hint: never. So, I let go and left it up to him. I found that when I left him alone about it and put the responsibility for his relationships back on his shoulders, he did better. Good luck. 

Pooh

Thanks MrsKitty. I totally agree with you that it is my DS's responsiblity.  My reasoning behind sending her the email was because I thought maybe, she got a little miffed that I asked him instead of her. That I wasn't valuing her role in their marriage and that by only asking him questions, she might feel I was purposefully slighting her.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

MrsKitty

Oh dear. I see your reasoning. My MIL tends to copy both me and DH on all her emails that pertain to plans so that we both know what is going on. I like that she does this because my DH often forgets to let me know about possible plans until the last minute--men!  ::).  This way, she and I can communicate, but my DH is also responsible for doing his part to contribute to his relationship with her. I never expected her to copy me on such emails--she just did it on her own and I think it is really thoughtful of her (and helpful to me).

It is so funny what we all do to avoid upsetting someone else. When I was new to my marriage, I was bugging my DH to call his mom to check in with her because I was afraid she would get mad at me if he did not call her. Like I said, I eventually just let go because I realized that I can't make him be thoughtful or considerate--he has to do that on his own. I don't know if she has ever gotten upset with me about him not calling enough. I doubt it because I think she knows that I don't have the power to make my DH do certain things (just like she doesn't have the power to make her DH do certain things). Good luck.

nonamehere

I don't feel qualified to give anyone advice, but the one thing I would suggest is an actual call.  People hide behind text and email in very many ways.  I would call at a time that you believe convenient to them.  With caller ID, they may not answer.  I would not leave a message the first or even the second time.  As a last resort, I would leave a voicemail with the details and indicate that if there is no response by a certain date, you will assume that they are unable to attend and that everyone will miss seeing them.  Obviously, it is a little late for this approach at this point, but maybe in the future, you can give it a try.  At least you won't be left hanging and you may even get the opportunity to speak with your son about his insensitivity to MeMaw, if nothing else.  And yes, even MeMaw can probably use the phone.  Maybe DS would be less likely to ignore MeMaw! 

Finally, with regard to DILs clean-up behavior.....sometimes those situations can be diffused with a bit of humor and cajoling.  Assuming that you get another chance at her.........I'd suggest that you tell her that you'd hate to see her be robbed of the joy of cleaning up with the other women and that you've got a dish towel with her name on it.   ;)

LaurieS

I agree Nonamehere... I feel that you are always setting yourself up for miscommunication when only corresponding via e-mail and text messages.  You never know if they actually received the messages, or how they perceived what you were saying.  If you can not speak to them directly then a phone call is the next best thing.  I will always say that I will follow up a conversation with a email that will reiterate times/directions/or other necessary information. 

As far as the dil not helping out in the kitchen.. did she feel invited to help out?  While I've always been the type of person just to jump in, she may have been unsure of where she should be.  I know my own dil the first time we had a get together did not help out and quietly sat down.  The next time I asked her if she minded bringing a couple of items from the table or helping to set up the desert table.  Since that time she jumps right in and knows that while the guys are scratching and yawning mindlessly in front of the tv, we are opening the new bottle of wine and having some good laughs. 

My own mother made her only dil cry because the girl put leftovers into the wrong container, and god forbid she then put it on the wrong shelf in the fridge.  By the end of the table clearing she had all but destroyed this poor girl... needless to say.. that dil will never again assume that her help is appreciated. 

Pooh

Thanks guys for all the suggestions and advice.  I probably should have tried calling them last week to see if they would answer but I will admit, my stubborness kicked in.  Because I have tried to initiate phone calls and do not get calls back for the last year, a couple of months ago I decided I wasn't doing it anymore.  So I sent the text and email just because my Mother asked for me to find out for her.  I totally agree face to face is best, and phone call next.  But I haven't had those opportunities in the last year when I have tried.  It is such a minefield I am walking.   So at this moment, I am not doing anything but leaving it in their court.  Doesn't mean I can't be very disappointed in my son's rudeness.  But if I am going to leave it at that, I can't let it get to me....I know. 

We have invited her to join in on different occasions.  (I can't honestly say if any of us specifically did this time).My SIL has tried, I have tried, my niece's have tried.  It has been done with humor and sometimes, just asked if she wanted to come join us.  We usually get a "No", or a head shake and she sits where she is.  Ok, I get that no matter how I feel, this is how she is.  But it still disappoints me.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

LaurieS

Sure it's disappointing, more so because she is excluding herself from the company of others who care to know more about her.  If your son is not included or invited then he can not be rude about not responding.  Since he has shown that this is going to be his new repetitive approach then I would not bother asking and make the assumption that he and his wife will not attend.  This way it's entirely up to them to come forward with their desires.  Let them live with the consequences of their actions. In doing so you will protect your own heart a little more.

pam1

Wow Pooh, I and DH would avoid this too.  Please don't take offense but these are just my thoughts.  I asked a few of my friends and wow, no not a one of them would feel comfortable attending the gathering where it is traditional for men to sit back while women do the clean up.  No one thought it was a moment for females to bond and would not consider it that way.  And well, I'm sure DS and DIL noticed your disappointment which would further make the situation uncomfortable for them.  This is something I would leave entirely in DH's hands to sort out with his FOO.  It's his family and his issue, I would not step in.

I can't imagine how awkward that is for your DIL, Pooh.  Please, please don't take offense but I figured if I give you my opinion it might help a little.  In my family, we were taught everyone helps out.  It would simply boggle my mind that the men go sit down and relax while the women clean.  I don't care who I'm cleaning with and what kind of wine they give me, it is simply not a pleasant task for most people.  And by cutting down on the amount of people that can and should help, you (general you) are giving me MORE work to do.  Ontop of how I would perceive it to be unfair, I'd rather host my own.  And after each episode of this (where there is no taking turns and further making this an unpleasant experience for me) I would start thinking that this is probably not going to change, this is not my family's tradition to change, I'm the only one who seems to have a problem with it so they probably don't care to take me seriously and it's not my family to change.....dang, I'm not looking forward to this holiday with DH's side at all.  I would like I said, give the issue back to DH, his family, his issue....and start making alternative plans for that holiday.
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

luise.volta

And in a lot of families...the men were sitting down when the feast was being prepared!  ;)
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pooh

Yes it was.  I asked DH a couple of years ago, if when they went to her Mother's house they did something different.  He said no, it was the same.  They guys watched television and the ladie's all cleaned up, and she participated there.  So I have no idea.

And just for the record, I am laughing.  The men in my family are very hard workers and we torture them on Christmas making them carry everything and do most of the work.  It has just always been that way and I have never thought any different about it.

No offense taken at all Pam.  I can totally see where if you were not raised in that tradition where you might find it sexist.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

LaurieS

No doubt that it's sexist and unlike a lot of people that is fine by me.  I'm not carrying out the garbage or unstopping the toilet when it's full of yucky after little johnny puts in a entire roll of toilet paper.  Not only do I cook better  then any man in my family, I can put things away and know that it's been done right.  Honestly, I found a brick of sharp cheddar in the pantry one time.  Meanwhile the guys do stay busy enough, I usually have my honey-do list finished off before the big day and by time he gets through that he needs a break.  And maybe this is the June Cleaver in me, but it thrills me when my one son always looks around and declares that this is the best dinner of his life and he hasn't even loaded up his plate yet.  Besides, clean up is not what it use to be, I utilize my dishwasher oh and I put in these really deep over sized sinks, I'm even amazed at what I can get done in short time. 

Remember ladies (or guys) - a little vinegar in the dishwasher or sink rinse will have your dishes and glasses sparkling.