March 28, 2024, 01:00:14 PM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


Question: is grandparenting a privledge that must be won nowadays?

Started by Tara, November 14, 2010, 05:47:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GrandmaShermie

I agree with you that family relationships are just that, not privileges or gifts. The fact that so many of us have to fight for our natural place as grandparents is a result of the breakdown of the family in general. My 32 y.o. daughter enjoys not speaking to me since she married a new man 4 years ago. I am sure if all of her father's family were to suddenly disappear, she would want a relationship with me. But for now, she doesn't feel that she "needs" me.

Our present culture is indeed lost.  The general consensus is that people are to used and material things are to be loved and cherished. Of course, the opposite is the truth.

My daughter has tried to spread her disrespect of me to other family members as well. Some of my teenage grandchildren who have been in touch with my daughter on Facebook join in with her by "threatening" me with comments such as "you're going to be lonely/all alone" if I disagree to even the simplest request. I tell the that I would never have even thought of saying such a thing to my grandparents. It really makes me want to avoid them.  They are just plain cruel and seem to enjoy the power and control that they think this give them.

Keep your self respect.  This world is full of sociopaths, some of whom are family.

Postscript

I think of all relationships as a privilege, not just grand parenting.  If you don't maintain the relationship, put in the hard work and maintenance, the relationship withers and dies.  Nobody has the right to inflict their toxicity on another and expect them to take it indefinitely.  The problem arises when one person refuses to see themselves as cause in the matter and refuses to be a part of the solution.

I've said time and time again, perception is reality.  If someone perceives they are being abused, that is their reality whether or not you or anyone else agrees.



luise.volta

Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Gram

I appreciate everybody's post here....some great discussion. Kathleen, I too love your  insights and ideas. Thank you for sharing! Gram

kathleen

Last night I was watching an old Andy Hardy movie from the late 30's.  Judge Hardy confronted a wealthy woman for not caring for her indigent parents, stating, "It's the law you know; you can be forced to support them; besides the law, it's morally right."  However you define grandparenting, privilege, gift, or right, I believe it's a basic ethic that children be allowed this deep human connection, and that cutting them off is unnatural and even immoral.

I'm afraid I'm old-fashioned enough to agree with Judge Hardy.  I didn't always get along with my mother well at all, and certainly aspects of her were very harsh, but in her old age I made absolutely certain all her needs were cared for, and the same with my MIL.  My husband and I were together on this.  Didn't particularly like either of them but would not have dreamed of scaring up "abuse" and cutting off.  Probably could have done it if we'd gone on the hunt.

And I'm old-fashioned enough to think that parents deserve honor from their adult children in other ways.  I don't agree that just because someone says they were "abused," it's a reality.  There's too much whining in this society.  The Kutoff King in our family was always self-pitying.  He never seemed to feel he got enough, despite the fact that he sometimes got more than his brothers.  I'm sure if you asked him today, he could scare up "abuse."  My oldest son seems to make up for all the wisdom Mr. Kutoff lacks.  He says "You don't grow up until you accept your parents as human beings."  Of course there is real and horrific abuse.  But people who had good childhoods with solid values, good education and attention to all their health and other needs, and loving parents, lack ethics if they go searching around for "abuse."  It's a dishonor to children who do suffer from real abuse. 

Did I make mistakes as a mother?  You betcha.  Do I deserve to be cut off from my granddaughter?  No, and she doesn't deserve to be cut off from all of us.  But it's what she's getting, the little girl born so prematurely she was sick for a year.  She will never know one entire side of her family, thanks to the selfishness of her parents.  I must have made a mistake spoiling my son for him to act out like this.  Perhaps we gave him too much, or perhaps he's just an abusive son.  I remember chronic lying, stealing, shooting around corners, constant fear he would get in trouble with the police. I remember much time and money with "therapists," none of whom did much good, and primarily my endless anxiety about his behavior.  I wonder if he ever once considered the effect on his family of this behavior.  He demanded and got most of the attention away from  his brothers from the sheer amount of time in working through his daily behaviors.  Yet he's the first to down his parents and brothers today.  Much of Kutoff is a mystery, as he was adopted.  Perhaps he never felt accepted, and this is his way out, but it is a very destructive way and not analytical at all in terms of what might be best for his daughter. Perhaps he is simply emulating what his biological parents did to him, which is walk out.  Are genes a greater determinant of behavior than environment?  He never learned this abandonment of adult parents at home.  There must be some explanation, because:  Nobody in this family drinks, does drugs, hits children, gives out unwanted advice, or hands out anything to my son and DIL except a lot of money they asked for.  We educated this boy in some of the best schools in the land, sent him to Europe to study, and gave him strong role models growing up (which he now ignores.)  We do not deserve to lose our grandchild/niece. 

There are two sides to everything, but unless our son is willing to have a dialogue, which he most certainly is not, this will not be fixed.  Once again, he is taking the easy way out.

Yes, we are still angry and have a way to go before fully neutralizing that, but it's beginning to be over.  My anger now is increasingly boiled down to  a generalized disgust at all people who dishonor others through manipulation of the truth.  As for my son, I'm beginning a phase of just wanting to wish him well.  That, I'm finding, is true detachment.

I wonder if that movie was accurate and there was a time when it was against the law to abandon indigent parents.  We will I believe be judged by a higher authority in the end.

The coldest hearts abandon their parents and keep their children from grandparents at this time of the year.   In a loving family, everyone is included.

Kathleen




Pooh

Wonderful post Kathleen!  I totally agree with you.  I also agree with the ladies that have "true" toxic issues with the GPs.  I don't think one person in this forum would disagree with the logic of keeping anyone away from a child that could cause them "true" harm.

But, I think people's perceptions is the total key.  Everyone has a different perception of what "true" harm is.  What one would see as harm, someone else would say, "You've got to be kidding?"  And vice verse. 

I am right there with you Kathleen.  I am not a harm to my GD, but her Mother is doing it out of selfishness and revenge.  I am a firm believer in Karma, and someday, I truly believe she will pay for what she is doing. 

I love this:  The coldest hearts abandon their parents and keep their children from grandparents at this time of the year.   In a loving family, everyone is included.
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

holliberri

I don't think it is a privilege, or a right, or a gift. I am trying to get it in my head now, that my most important relationship is with my daughter. I have to nurture that, always. She's only an infant, but I think about all the changes that are to come over the years, and I know that grandkids may not be an option for me. I wasn't sure  my daughter would get here; I'm not sure what's to become of me in the future; and my daughter may decide never to have kids.  That all has to be okay with me; those are things I have no choice in.  My life won't be shortchanged without grandkids...and as someone who never met her grandmother (she passed when my dad was 14), I can't exactly mourn what I wasn't missing. I am happy as I am, despite not having a connection with my paternal grandmother.

I am going to make it a point that come what may, I need to be happy. I can't control what other people do in my life, and the new little things that my daughter does everyday has shown me that I very soon will have no control over her. The only thing I can gaurantee is that I'll love her. I have no idea what will happen when she has kids. She may decide that she doesn't want or need me involved, I'm aware of that; that problem runs in my family.

I've managed to be close with my grandparents even though they have no relationship with my mother. What I would like from them most of all is to love one another for their own sake; it has nothing to do with me.  The relationship between THEM is by far more precious than the relationship they have with me. My grandfather even went to court to seek visiting rights when we were younger.  No matter what my mother has done, the fact that he hurt her like this hurt me as well. I didn't see the point of a court case. It didn't make it easy for me to be around him, knowing that if he had his way, he would force contact with me. No one ever TOLD me this was going on, it was obvious...kids just know.  I think I would forego a relationship with my GCs before I let that happen to them. I feel that he put us GCs before my mother in doing what he did. 

All is well now, I'm an adult and I try to forgive as quickly as I can, so I haven't let his transgression (and yes, that is what I think that was) hamper my relationship with him. I also have seen him do the kinds of things to me that he did to my mother (recently, he deleted my list of jobs that I applied for that were out of town; he also stopped talking to me when I went into the Air National Guard). We were never abused by my mother, she had no substance issues, and now, b/c of his attempt at visitation rights, I think their relationship has reached it's nadir. (Long story short, my mother divorced my father and my grandparents shut her off when she needed their support more than ever; I think I can understand her feeling that I probably shouldn't have been around them at that point).

This is all anecdotal of course, but it did affect me and I am trying to break a cycle. If I happen to have a cross to bare b/c my daughter doesn't want me to have contact with her kids, I am going to consider that somewhere along the line, her and I both made some mistakes in our relationship that need working on. Then, if I'm lucky, I'll worry about the GCs later.

Mamaw313

Love your post Kathleen and I agree that parents these days have forgotten about the child. It's all about them and what they want. Its a very sad situation. Our Granddaughter is 8 months old and we haven't seen her since she was 5 months old. It's all about the control issues of DIL. We didn't do anything wrong. We have asked our DS AND her and they have no reason. IF they do...they are not telling us. They just keep the baby away and take the baby to her parents. It really stinks, and we missed out on her 1st Halloween, Thanksgiving, and I'm sure we wont see her for her 1st Christmas or her 1st Birthday in April. It's heartbreaking. As we have told DS, "We can not fix what we don't know" He agreed and said that he would talk to her. That was 2 months ago with no results. Now he is not  allowed to come around. We are at the point of not subjecting ourselves to this nonsense any longer. The sadness and wondering has got to come to an end at some point and we feel that time is now.

luise.volta

I disagree. That's a generalization. There are a lot of truly wonderful parents out there right now. We may see trends but everyone doesn't follow them.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama