Need Wisdom in understanding uncaring kids

[Hope]

Hi, I'm new and have been searching the web for answers. I think I found the place where I can make some sense on what is happening. I'll try to give a quick run down  of my history.

Married at 23 to a man who 7 years later was diagnosed as a Bipolar and spent the rest of his life in a mental institution.  In that time, we had two kids, a boy and girl.  Everyone knows all the struggles as a single Mom and I finally meet a nice man and remarried.  He always was good with the kids and gave them stability.  When the ex-husband was released on day furlows, he started stalking past the house, I was advised from the Doctors to move. We all moved 1000 miles away to start a new life.  We had a normal family, going on vacations, Christmas, etc.  When I sold the house up north, I had half the money in the bank and made sure the kids had cars, clothes.  My son was a typical teenager and pushed me always to the limit.  I felt I did a good job teaching him to be an up standing citzen.  He now has a good job and was transferred out of state.  My daughter did well in school, and when she wanted to get married, my husband and I had no problem giving her a wonderful wedding.  That's when it all changed.  My daughter moved away to continue her education and each new visit was becoming stranger each time.

It's now 10 years later and for the life of me I can't figure out why the both of them do not want to be a family. My son will not return any calls,. My daughter will call and if I just mention that we went on a hike, etc.  she will burst out that is it always about you.  She now has a baby and I am not looking forward to visiting.  I thought having a baby would mellow her out but I don't see this happening.  Over the years, our conversations how become less and less like friends that I thought we were. If she was not related, I doubt I would continue taking the out bursts she pulls on every conversation. There has to be a way to handle my broken heart.  I want to be able to not let this eat me up alive, but it is. 

I hope this short essay of my problem covers it enough that someone can guide me in this ongoing dilemma.  As time goes on, I'm sure I can shed more light on why two kids who are loved more than anything can be so cruel and cold to their mother.. My husband is as confused as I am. We have been married 23 years and the kids are 33 and 30 so he has a long history with these kids.

dablacks,
I think you would be wise to listen to your counselor.....by keeping your distance from your dc and allowing them to come to you.  I know it's painful to take a step back from your dc, but I don't think you will get the results you so desperately want by initiating contact.  The strained five minute phone calls certainly aren't bringing you and your dd closer.  By allowing them to come to you - even if it takes years - you can begin to rebuild respect.  I know firsthand how difficult it is b/c I am doing the same with my ds/dil.  I haven't been a big presence in their lives in the past few years, but for the past few months I've stopped initiating any contact - except for sending them birthday/anniversary cards and birthday gifts.  I did send a birthday email to my dil at my ds's text request (which was sent to a large group).  It's a slow process and I haven't seen any results yet, but I have confidence that eventually my ds will take note and want me back in his life.......I don't think my dil would care if she ever saw me again.  I'm convinced that no matter what I do she will not accept me.  My dh and I have been nothing but generous and loving to her, but she still finds fault in whatever she can......by twisting the truth or by demonizing whatever we do.  I don't hear it firsthand, but she has treated my dh with distain - which is unbelievable b/c he has been so gracious, considerate, and kind to her from the first time they met and has never stopped.  She's made it very clear that she doesn't want us around.  I have a gs who is 3 1/2 months old and I only get to see him when there is a large get together.  They never stop by our house, invite us over, or ask us to babysit.  Since I am not initiating contact, I am not inviting them over here or asking if we can go there.  I know it sounds senseless - and I feel like just another relative - not a grandparent.  My ds makes me angry - what is he thinking???  Doesn't he realize that my heart is broken?  Doesn't he care?  It's like I don't know him any more.  I'll continue to be kind and loving to them when we are together for the big family events (showers, weddings, christenings, holidays).  I'm just trying to be patient in hopes that they will come around.  If not, I will learn to adapt.  I'm happy I have two loving daughters and sils to spend some time with.
I wish you peace and contentment.
Hugs, Hope

[barelythere]

Hi, I'm new and have been searching the web for answers. I think I found the place where I can make some sense on what is happening. I'll try to give a quick run down  of my history.

Married at 23 to a man who 7 years later was diagnosed as a Bipolar and spent the rest of his life in a mental institution.  In that time, we had two kids, a boy and girl.  Everyone knows all the struggles as a single Mom and I finally meet a nice man and remarried.  He always was good with the kids and gave them stability.  When the ex-husband was released on day furlows, he started stalking past the house, I was advised from the Doctors to move. We all moved 1000 miles away to start a new life.  We had a normal family, going on vacations, Christmas, etc.  When I sold the house up north, I had half the money in the bank and made sure the kids had cars, clothes.  My son was a typical teenager and pushed me always to the limit.  I felt I did a good job teaching him to be an up standing citzen.  He now has a good job and was transferred out of state.  My daughter did well in school, and when she wanted to get married, my husband and I had no problem giving her a wonderful wedding.  That's when it all changed.  My daughter moved away to continue her education and each new visit was becoming stranger each time.

It's now 10 years later and for the life of me I can't figure out why the both of them do not want to be a family. My son will not return any calls,. My daughter will call and if I just mention that we went on a hike, etc.  she will burst out that is it always about you.  She now has a baby and I am not looking forward to visiting.  I thought having a baby would mellow her out but I don't see this happening.  Over the years, our conversations how become less and less like friends that I thought we were. If she was not related, I doubt I would continue taking the out bursts she pulls on every conversation. There has to be a way to handle my broken heart.  I want to be able to not let this eat me up alive, but it is. 

I hope this short essay of my problem covers it enough that someone can guide me in this ongoing dilemma.  As time goes on, I'm sure I can shed more light on why two kids who are loved more than anything can be so cruel and cold to their mother.. My husband is as confused as I am. We have been married 23 years and the kids are 33 and 30 so he has a long history with these kids.

dablacks,
I think you would be wise to listen to your counselor.....by keeping your distance from your dc and allowing them to come to you.  I know it's painful to take a step back from your dc, but I don't think you will get the results you so desperately want by initiating contact.  The strained five minute phone calls certainly aren't bringing you and your dd closer.  By allowing them to come to you - even if it takes years - you can begin to rebuild respect.  I know firsthand how difficult it is b/c I am doing the same with my ds/dil.  I haven't been a big presence in their lives in the past few years, but for the past few months I've stopped initiating any contact - except for sending them birthday/anniversary cards and birthday gifts.  I did send a birthday email to my dil at my ds's text request (which was sent to a large group).  It's a slow process and I haven't seen any results yet, but I have confidence that eventually my ds will take note and want me back in his life.......I don't think my dil would care if she ever saw me again.  I'm convinced that no matter what I do she will not accept me.  My dh and I have been nothing but generous and loving to her, but she still finds fault in whatever she can......by twisting the truth or by demonizing whatever we do.  I don't hear it firsthand, but she has treated my dh with distain - which is unbelievable b/c he has been so gracious, considerate, and kind to her from the first time they met and has never stopped.  She's made it very clear that she doesn't want us around.  I have a gs who is 3 1/2 months old and I only get to see him when there is a large get together.  They never stop by our house, invite us over, or ask us to babysit.  Since I am not initiating contact, I am not inviting them over here or asking if we can go there.  I know it sounds senseless - and I feel like just another relative - not a grandparent.  My ds makes me angry - what is he thinking???  Doesn't he realize that my heart is broken?  Doesn't he care?  It's like I don't know him any more.  I'll continue to be kind and loving to them when we are together for the big family events (showers, weddings, christenings, holidays).  I'm just trying to be patient in hopes that they will come around.  If not, I will learn to adapt.  I'm happy I have two loving daughters and sils to spend some time with.
I wish you peace and contentment.
Hugs, Hope

Hope, I just saw that you have daughters!!  Good for you...it's small comfort but it's something to think about. I wonder if he's doing to you what I did to my Caregiver?  I have no way of knowing but it's becoming so common for the DIL to be this way that it's almost like it's expected and strange when it isn't that way.  It sounds like he's got his hands full.  They do try to make their wives happy, whatever the cost. Stay strong, he'll be back.

[cdb]

I feel like we are caught between a rock and a hard place,, or excuse the language, but damned if we do and damned if we don't. I like the live in the now. I can't figure out this generation or any of this disrespect etc. I did go through a period in my life when I didn't like my parents. Maybe this is common, not sure. I did get over it. But, I never dreamed what is happening to you , like me, would ever have happened after all we did for our kids. Not sure if it is a different society of what, but whatever it is, gaining knowledge here and working on taking care of our broken hearts here sure helps. Prayers on the way to you. cdb

[dablacks]

Thanks for caring, I care so much for people too.  I know each and everyone on this post is sincere and have helped me more than I can explain.  It's funny how we all want to protect ourselves from this hurt, yet fall right back into the pattern.

An example: My sister visited my daughter while on vacation. My sister and my whole family other than my husband has no idea that my daughter and son have split personalities. They behave like chatting away, life of the party people.  Actually, they talk nonstop and if I try to add something I get an undercutting remark like I am a moran, so I just stay out of any rare times they are together, last time was the funeral for my Dad. That was the worse, not one caring remark to me.

So, getting back to my sister, she told me what a great time she had and that my daughter and her went out for the afternoon, had dinner while my son in law watched the baby.  That last conversation I mentioned earlier when I was at work, I asked my daughter if she has been out at all since the baby was born.  I really did not think about my sisters visit when I asked. I was just wondering if she has walked around a little.  My daughter said no, I haven't.  Trying to find neutrel chatting, I then did ask if she had seen my sister yet because I knew she was in that state last week, My daughter flat out lied and said, they came over for 20 min., most people do and don't stay longer than that., hint, hint. "What gives with that", why would a grown woman find it necessary to lie about this when  it is my sister visiting. Didn't she think my sister and I would talk about  her trip. 

I'm feeling like I should STOP asking questions even if they seem like just simple chit chat.  You see the spiral I'm in, Between a hard place and a rock as they say.

Let me finish my long post by saying that I am taking piano lessons, hiking, bike riding and generally enjoying  my life.  I really want to handle this as I would with a bad coworker. Just tolerate and don't tip my mitt in front of them. Smile, Smile Smile next week.
Thanks cdb, your comment and everyone has been right on the money, as they say.

[dablacks]

Thank you Luise, your comments are uplifting!

[Hope]

dablacks - I'm so glad you found us.  There is comfort in knowing you are not alone.  Hang in there - hopefully, things will change over time.  Just know we are here for you any time you need support. 
Barelythere and cdb - your kindness means the world to me.  Thanks!
Hugs to all, Hope

[barelythere]

dablacks - I'm so glad you found us.  There is comfort in knowing you are not alone.  Hang in there - hopefully, things will change over time.  Just know we are here for you any time you need support. 
Barelythere and cdb - your kindness means the world to me.  Thanks!
Hugs to all, Hope

Hope, it's easy to be kind to someone so sweet...hang in there, Dablacks, cdb and Hope!

[cadagi101]

Dear dablacks,
You  really have had a very tough time,  beginning with your Bi-Polar husband, having to begin a new life and now the way your kids are treating you.     You said you had a good relationship with your daughter and you have done so much for her and this is how she is treating you.  Why now (excuse the statement) keep flooging a dead horse.??  You deserve so much better than this.    My daughter and I don't have a very good relationship she is 17 and I am putting it down to her age.  If she were to continue to treat me with disrespect into adulthood and relationships etc.  I would tell her "you have treated your family like dirt for years, you are an adult now no longer a child and I will not put up with it another minute.   I have my own life I plan to enjoy every minute  I did the best I could for you.   We are here for you if you need us. When you can be pleasant and respect us I will look forward to seeing you.   

The point is I have already had enough of her the way she is so no way is this going to continue,  she will have to come to us.     I have said to her when she seems depressed and unmotivated there is counsellors that she can always see if she needs support. 

My son is 20 and is just now being respectful to me.  I try to be positive but I have always felt he has an underlying disorder maybe bi-polar or split personality so I am prepared things to turn sour again one day.  Anyhow I think it is a good idea to mention to your daughter you are worried she may have bi-polar and tell her she is so dreadful to you and you try your best all the time,  I would tell she is nasty to you when you don't deserve it she is are moody, often seem sad etc..  Suggest she see someone as life is to short to be miserable and suffer.  If she takes offense to that then you will know you have done all you can to help her.   

I have said all of those things to my son and he saw an adolescent counsellor.  My son insisted I be there which I was but then i wouldn't go in with him,  he needed that time with the counsellor.    People would say how lovely and kind he is and yes what 18yr old would want there mum in counselling with them.    Anyhow he did take anti-depressant and then told me 12 months later he felt he could go of them.  I made sure he saw a Dr before he did we can at least talk about it and I have no trouble asking him how he is feeling.   

It is a huge worry when you think your adult children are suffering and I know I blame myself,  it must be because great grandfather suicided etc and I run through everything that is my fault.    Suggesting a cousellor and my worries is the only thing that has changed me and given me peace.    You can't change your daughters reaction but you can feel satisfied you have done all you can to help.  It is up to her.   

[dablacks]

Thank you Julia for all your help.  I am not sure I can mention that I feel both my kids are bipolar.  I can not bring up their father, years ago it was a touchy subject that they both rejected. 

When my kids were 17 and 20 I felt I had more influence because they were still so young and dependent.  Those years were  hard in a lot of ways.  Both kids were smoking pot, I would find it out on the porch, confort them while they laid on the couch, and then would flush it down the toilet.  They both knew this was unacceptable to me.  I felt this was my responsibility to be their parent. They both had been in trouble getting caught with pot and drinking and I had to bail both out and pay high prices for lawyers. I feel now that they both learned their lesson on DUI.

Now that they are both financially independent, they both now don't need me to fall back on.  I am glad that they both do not ask for money, that is a good thing. I have helped them anytime they needed help and never asked to be re-paid.

I know I will always have my good days and bad days.  I feel that I over react to other situations because of this heartship.  Just the other day, my neighbor, who has always been good about watching the house when we went on vacation, has a dog that barks alot.  Most times  I close the windows and turn the radio up but that day I called and told them that I count as a person and the dog has got to be placed in the house.  Needless to say, it was very uncomfortable for both of us.   My busband got defensive that I am over the top and that a dog barking next door is normal, as long as the people are home too. It is causing a lot of stress because I am really not a very happy person feeling so isolated from family. and  no friends to really rely on.

[cadagi101]

You sound sad, it can be a very sad world.   Our situations make us sad, people make us sad, but the really big one is family.  I never thought my children would make me so sad and depressed.     We overreact when things occur that we once didn't worry to much about.   I think I would take a cake or flowers out of your garden or something small to your neighbour and explain you aren't sleeping well,very stressed etc and you feel you did overreact.  If she is a friend and looks after your house etc.  she will be kind and hopefully keep the dodg inside or compromise.     

I must have misunderstood your post, I thought!! you asked advise as to if you should speak to your daughter about having bi-polar.  Sorry, I feel I overstepped  your post. 

You have had a tough time with your children but sound as though you handled it kindly.  ie' smoking pot.

You do count as a person, sometimes we don't feel like we do though, good luck

[dablacks]

Hi Julia,
You did not overstep when advising me to speak to the kids about bipolar.  My Doctor said that I should as well, but only in person.  I just can not bring myself to say to them, guess what, you could have the gene that your father had.  I think they both have a milder case because they are both working, living in a normal society and blending. Their father was committed at 33 years old. He could not work, washed his hands all day, physically violent,  it was a nightmare, Thank God I was young, strong and kept my wits about me to protect the kids.

Neither one wants to rekindle any memory of those days.  My son remembers the most and my daughter said once that she has very little memory of when she was little, I bring up the fun stuff, mostly after I remarried because it was fun to relax and enjoy being a whole family.

I regret overreacting with the neighbor as soon as I opened my mouth. She was defensive and I tried to calm the situation down by mentioning we were friends.  Your suggestion of bringing over a little Sunday treat or flowers is loving and I will do this later.  I would not have thought of this and I thank you from my heart for your reply.

[Pooh]

Welcome dablacks, loving your posts, hating your situation.

I have learned one thing, people (including our children) find it easier to blame the people that love them for all their problems instead of facing their problems.  It's easier because they know that no matter how they treat us, we will love them.

So yes, I will always love my DS.....I'm just loving him from afar right now!  Take a step back and focus on your piano.  You are worth it!

[dablacks]

Hello Pooh, Reading yours and everyone's posts is like receiving a great big gulp of air, it feels so good... You hit the nail on the head as everyone here does.  The incite and natural flow of everyone is a gift from God to me. 

I practiced all simple Christmas songs yesterday and they are sounding good. I enjoyed every moment and I actually forgot about everything but the now.  What a blessing to not have all these different thoughts racing through your head.

My daughter called, the last call during the week did not go well.  It seems to work like this.  She is over the top with her mean-spirted remarks.  I clam up and say, Oh, the mailman is here, got to go, Then she calls in a week like not a thing is wrong.  She knows just how to "Win" me back.  I get confident and then blindsided again on a future call that I did not expect.  The pattern is set for our trip on Thursday.  I am really, really worried that she will turn on us again.  The last two visits were a disaster.  I have to find a way to not feed the fire with her.  A simple remark can turn into an attack.  I'm left to defend and it spirals down into the drain.  I will focus on not answering her and maybe just stare with a confused look.  Defending doesn't help so maybe this will.

[seafoam]

The pattern is set for our trip on Thursday.  I am really, really worried that she will turn on us again.  The last two visits were a disaster.  I have to find a way to not feed the fire with her.  A simple remark can turn into an attack.  I'm left to defend and it spirals down into the drain.  I will focus on not answering her and maybe just stare with a confused look.  Defending doesn't help so maybe this will.

I think your proposed defense is wonderful.  But don't look confused.  Look surprised that anyone would say such a thing!

Miss Manners (whoever she is) recommends the following when someone addresses you with a rude or impertinent remark:  Stare at the offending person without speaking for a few moments.  Then, with your best manners, say "I beg your pardon".  I have always wanted to use this defensive tactic somewhere.  I have used the first half of it many times.  I find that saying nothing is very effective.  I just look at the person and let her remark ring in the air. 

[Pooh]

I think I will try that seafoam except instead of "I beg your pardon" I am going to insert, "Yes, tea sounds lovely."