Need Wisdom in understanding uncaring kids

[dablacks]

Hi, I'm new and have been searching the web for answers. I think I found the place where I can make some sense on what is happening. I'll try to give a quick run down  of my history.

Married at 23 to a man who 7 years later was diagnosed as a Bipolar and spent the rest of his life in a mental institution.  In that time, we had two kids, a boy and girl.  Everyone knows all the struggles as a single Mom and I finally meet a nice man and remarried.  He always was good with the kids and gave them stability.  When the ex-husband was released on day furlows, he started stalking past the house, I was advised from the Doctors to move. We all moved 1000 miles away to start a new life.  We had a normal family, going on vacations, Christmas, etc.  When I sold the house up north, I had half the money in the bank and made sure the kids had cars, clothes.  My son was a typical teenager and pushed me always to the limit.  I felt I did a good job teaching him to be an up standing citzen.  He now has a good job and was transferred out of state.  My daughter did well in school, and when she wanted to get married, my husband and I had no problem giving her a wonderful wedding.  That's when it all changed.  My daughter moved away to continue her education and each new visit was becoming stranger each time.

It's now 10 years later and for the life of me I can't figure out why the both of them do not want to be a family. My son will not return any calls,. My daughter will call and if I just mention that we went on a hike, etc.  she will burst out that is it always about you.  She now has a baby and I am not looking forward to visiting.  I thought having a baby would mellow her out but I don't see this happening.  Over the years, our conversations how become less and less like friends that I thought we were. If she was not related, I doubt I would continue taking the out bursts she pulls on every conversation. There has to be a way to handle my broken heart.  I want to be able to not let this eat me up alive, but it is. 

I hope this short essay of my problem covers it enough that someone can guide me in this ongoing dilemma.  As time goes on, I'm sure I can shed more light on why two kids who are loved more than anything can be so cruel and cold to their mother.. My husband is as confused as I am. We have been married 23 years and the kids are 33 and 30 so he has a long history with these kids.

[Miss Understood]

Did it ever cross  your mind that they may have bipolar issues like their father?
My DS's father was a pathalogical liar, freaked out and pulled his hair when he was angry...everything was a lie and he abandoned us as a family when my DS was a baby. We grew to be friends after 6 years, us both remarrying and me having the willingness to get him back involved in my DS's life.
I didn't realize that his traits were hereditary until he did what he did a few months back when my problems started. He pulled his hair out of anger, he freaked out for nothing and told lie after lie and then abandoned our family. All in one day...I realized that my DS was his father and these traits are hereditary. I thought my ex was like that when he was younger and changed (but I hadn't lived with him for 20 years...so I didn't realize he is still the same) Until I ran into him in a parking lot and he ran and hid from me. It all became totally clear.

So...Maybe your kids have Bipolar!
I'll be praying for you and your situation. Bipolar disorder can only get under control when the person who has it recognizes it and gets help. Nobody can change that but themselves. ((((hugs))))

[dablacks]

Thank you so much for your insight. Yes, I have thought of the kids having bipolar. I thought most of the teenage problems were normal, but now I can not face it.  I have gone to a PhD for counselling and she brought this up as well.  Now what do I do?  Do I tell them?  When I am in their company, which is very rare, I step back and watch the split-personality that I remember when I was married to their father.  I keep repeating to myself and my husband keeps reminding me that they are both 1/2 of me. I want the good to come out, but why are they turning on the one person who loves them and always forgives them, no matter what. I know I can not change DNA.  I guess what I am hoping is that this support system I am joining will get me through this heartship. We live in a city where the neighbors don't know anyone and really do not have any long term friends.  Thanks for the hug too, it made my day :>)

[LaurieS]

I want the good to come out, but why are they turning on the one person who loves them and always forgives them, no matter what.

Could it be in part because you are as you put it who always forgives them, no matter what? While raising our kids we give them boundaries and we even set numerous boundaries between ourselves and our children.  There are certain behaviors that are simply unacceptable such as unqualified emotional outburst.  For your own wellbeing I would reestablish your own personal boundaries. 

[dablacks]

Laurie, I have tried taking a stand and saying to each of them. "Is this necessary, to speak to me this way"  I can give dozens of examples of me trying to get them to speak to me respectful.  I always speak directly and softly.  I think I have already established with them that they can behave this way and I will "always" be there. It's my mistake, I keep hoping it will change.

  I really am a very confident person at work, in business.  I handle huge accounting problems, yet when it comes to these kids I am a failure. My son placed a block on his phone and all I did was wish him a Merry Christmas.  I mentioned to my daughter that her stepfather and I felt very unwelcomed when we visited last time. She said, "maybe you need not to come anymore".  I said, Oh, honey, you can't mean that.  I haven't seen her in over a year, the baby came a month ago and she pretty much sent emails asking us to come. No sooner we booked the plane tickets & hotel(nonrefundable)  and I get a call yesterday at work.  I whisper when I have a personal call, and she twisted the whole conversation around when I said I was surprised when she told me that her in-laws were flying in today and never mentioned it on FB. She accused me of raising my voice, which I reminded her that is impossible, as I know I whisper. To say the least, it is just another opportunity of hers to abuse me.  My husband has kept neutral because he said at least he can keep some lines open, but now he is talking about stepping in when we visit next week.  I am afraid that it will all blow up now with the baby, it will be a pawn like I read about other people where they can not see their grandkids.  I have to not take it to heart but it's impossible not too.

[Orly]

"Is this necessary, to speak to me this way"

In their mind, yes it is.   Don't do the wounded response .....tell them..."YOU don't talk to me that way!".   You need to stand up strong for yourself.  Sometimes the soft and direct approach isn't the best way to go.  Have you EVER gotten mad at your kids?  I mean mad to the point of righteous anger, with the follow up punishment of "you earned it, you got it" response?  Your kids have crossed your limits and you need to let them know without a doubt they have and it isn't acceptable.  Give them that something they would never expect from their mother...it may realign their vision of you, allowing things to change.

Loving them doesn't mean you HAVE to love their behaviors....or even put up with those.   

[luise.volta]

What c0uld you do today or plan for tomorrow that would be only for you that would make your heart sing? Can you back off from the untenable and the unexplainable and focus on healing and wholeness, momentarily? Can your life again be about you and not about what you expected from others? These are some of the questions we ask ourselves here. Sending love...

[dablacks]

I hear you, and when I went to counselling, the Doctor reinforced all these points.   Back off, let them come to you, etc.  It works for a week with my daughter, then it's back to the same old story. My son would not even look at me at my father's funeral 3 years ago.

Let me go back a little.  As a parent, I was fair but stern.  I did say NO and stuck to my guns when I did.  My husband and I agreed that it was best if I was the main person to discipline them.  We heard too many horror stories of stepfathers being the heavy and it doesn't work.  It has gotten worse each year because it happened so slowly. After she was married it was like night and day. First the smart remarks, then she didn't want to do Christmas, yet bought for others.  Little by little the pattern was set and the hurts build up.  I have answered her back just yesterday when I was trying to chat about babies and mentioned some little trick I thought would be useful and she went into a rage.  " WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, 16".  I said No, of course not. I am just chatting like I do the young mothers at work who do not take offense. 
Horrible day yesterday, knowing now that I have to fly in there for a week and like in the past she and her silent husband will just scare at us most of the time. When I have no reaction to it, she will start a fight about how heavy I walk, or that the dishcloth doesn't go there, etc.
My husband is great, he said, we will go next week, and just stay focused on the baby, go for walks and at least we can go back to the hotel. By the way, she asked that we stay in a hotel, small apartment. and we said no problem.

[luise.volta]

Yeah, I know that one about putting the dishcloth in the wrong place. Sheesh!!! Hang in...we're here! Sending love..

[barelythere]

I hear you, and when I went to counselling, the Doctor reinforced all these points.   Back off, let them come to you, etc.  It works for a week with my daughter, then it's back to the same old story. My son would not even look at me at my father's funeral 3 years ago.

Let me go back a little.  As a parent, I was fair but stern.  I did say NO and stuck to my guns when I did.  My husband and I agreed that it was best if I was the main person to discipline them.  We heard too many horror stories of stepfathers being the heavy and it doesn't work.  It has gotten worse each year because it happened so slowly. After she was married it was like night and day. First the smart remarks, then she didn't want to do Christmas, yet bought for others.  Little by little the pattern was set and the hurts build up.  I have answered her back just yesterday when I was trying to chat about babies and mentioned some little trick I thought would be useful and she went into a rage.  " WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, 16".  I said No, of course not. I am just chatting like I do the young mothers at work who do not take offense. 
Horrible day yesterday, knowing now that I have to fly in there for a week and like in the past she and her silent husband will just scare at us most of the time. When I have no reaction to it, she will start a fight about how heavy I walk, or that the dishcloth doesn't go there, etc.
My husband is great, he said, we will go next week, and just stay focused on the baby, go for walks and at least we can go back to the hotel. By the way, she asked that we stay in a hotel, small apartment. and we said no problem.

Dear Dablacks,
I'm a MIL so please don't take this as an offense but when I was reading this post I noticed where you said, "when I was trying to chat about babies and mentioned some little trick I thought would be useful and she went into a rage.  " WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, 16".  I said No, of course not. I am just chatting like I do the young mothers at work who do not take offense. " 

Right there, I'm wondering if she thinks you're being passive aggressive trying to make her think you can talk to all the young women where you work and not to her (which is all true) and maybe they gave you hints of things to do with babies.  Wonder if she is feeling criticized?   

Just shooting in the dark so please don't take offense...I am a journeyman too.

[dablacks]

No offense taken, I am cherishing each and every one of the replies today.  I took a walk after lunch and I felt like I was flying, I felt so light and happy. 

I'm not sure what passive aggressive is exactly so I might be guilty.  I was explaining to her that when I chat with the young girls at work, I am the same person I am with her.  I see them everyday and have great relationships. They ask my advice and I respect them.  I always have told my daughter I was proud of her education and the accomplishments she has made.  I feel that I should have done something years ago, but like I said it started so slightly and has built up to this uncaring situation. She lives far away and we talk maybe 5 minutes every few weeks with  very uncomfortable feelings.  I just don't know what to talk about, She stays silent and answers with one word. "How are ya feeling today"  "Fine"  " Does the baby kick a lot at night" "No".  Oh well honey, I'm going to have to let you go.  THEN AGAIN, a few times I have confronted her and she goes into a verbal rage.  I have told her she was mean-spirted and that I have never spoken to my Mother this way.  I talk to strangers nicer. I know now as I type that I try to avoid this at all costs and stay as passive as possible. I am trying to save myself from a total heart break and that is what I want to learn, how to cope without it tearing me apart.

[barelythere]

No offense taken, I am cherishing each and every one of the replies today.  I took a walk after lunch and I felt like I was flying, I felt so light and happy. 

I'm not sure what passive aggressive is exactly so I might be guilty.  I was explaining to her that when I chat with the young girls at work, I am the same person I am with her.  I see them everyday and have great relationships. They ask my advice and I respect them.  I always have told my daughter I was proud of her education and the accomplishments she has made.  I feel that I should have done something years ago, but like I said it started so slightly and has built up to this uncaring situation. She lives far away and we talk maybe 5 minutes every few weeks with  very uncomfortable feelings.  I just don't know what to talk about, She stays silent and answers with one word. "How are ya feeling today"  "Fine"  " Does the baby kick a lot at night" "No".  Oh well honey, I'm going to have to let you go.  THEN AGAIN, a few times I have confronted her and she goes into a verbal rage.  I have told her she was mean-spirted and that I have never spoken to my Mother this way.  I talk to strangers nicer. I know now as I type that I try to avoid this at all costs and stay as passive as possible. I am trying to save myself from a total heart break and that is what I want to learn, how to cope without it tearing me apart.

I know how hard this is, Dablacks.  I do.  I am so sorry too, she is missing out on a great Mom but she is very angry and you never know what that is really about. Anger at herself most likely.  You seem to be the only person who will take it.   

[jill]

Hi Dablacks,
I know exactly how you feel, I have the same problem with my ODD.  When we talked on the phone she was always screaming at me, and afterwards I would be in tears.  Now she doesn't want me in her life. I miss her and my GD but I don't miss all the fighting.  I am praying for you.

[Miss Understood]

I have tried taking a stand and saying to each of them. "Is this necessary, to speak to me this way"  I can give dozens of examples of me trying to get them to speak to me respectful.  I always speak directly and softly.  I think I have already established with them that they can behave this way and I will "always" be there. It's my mistake, I keep hoping it will change.[/size]

They hear something totally different than what you are saying. I didn't realize this till recently. My parents (the backstabbers) told me that my DS said he wanted to talk to me but only if me and oldest DD would stop yelling or being crazy. Of course, I don't really believe what my parents say because they lie if it is convenient for them...but besides the point here. I did not yell, ever....raise my voice, ever...was definately not the crazy one and did nothing but apologize and ask if we can talk, in a calm, sincere and loving tone. If my DS thinks that is crazy and yelling, he is the delusional one....I know for a fact my DD didn't yell at him either. He just hears that. WHY? Who knows. So...maybe it's not what you do...it doesn't make a difference how you say it or what you say to them. They will twist whatever it is into what ever it is they claim it is.
You can not tell your children that they are bipolar...they have to figure it out themselves. And even if they do figure it out...most likley, they will blame it on you...because that is what they do. You need to believe in you.

Luise...GD that is visiting is in bed...had wonderful time tonight carving pumpkins and dancing. 2 full days no tears! I am not the victim anymore. I realized that regardless...How I love my DS has nothing to do with anything. I am going to love him always and it is not a reflection on me for his choices. I am focusing on other things. I have accepted that things will never be the same...part of me is so afraid for them to come back in my life because I have finally started to feel some peace. I am so afraid if they do that I will fall in love with the GD that will be used as a pawn when it is convenient for them...I don't want that. So...quiet is my refuge right now.

[luise.volta]

Fear of "what ifs" can take a lot of energy. When you can, MU, (Moo?) live in the now. That's where peace lies.