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How often?

Started by pam1, October 25, 2010, 09:23:20 AM

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LaurieS

Hey Pam... checking in with you so see if you're still totally swamped with your MIL's holidays plans?  Wondering if you did a visual with dh so he could see for himself what your lives have become.  I know at one point you mentioned trying to spend more holiday time with your family.. how's that going for you?

GreatWhiteNorth

I saw my FOO once in a 13 month time span, I saw MIL twice in 2010- once in July, once in October and I will be seeing her in December on Christmas eve.

My MIL is like a toxic substance, like a toxic substance in the workplace, sometimes one has no choice but to be exposed to it, but you never expose yourself without proper protective equipment, for me the Protective Equiptment is in the form of buffers, these buffers are in the form of SILs family, that is why the July and October exposures, these are the birthdays of my neices, thus SILs family will be present.

SILs family there means that MILs narcissistic mask will be warn, that of a godly saint that is not even capable of any wrongdoing. MILs narcissistic mask on means that MIL will be relatively well behaved, rather then her normal energizer bunny on steriods performing antic after antic after antic, all the while watching me carefully for any sign of a reaction.

That is the answer with my MIL who is severely personality disordered.

Before I figured out that MIL was personality disordered we saw her every week, stayed with her everyweekend, every holiday I got from work she claimed as it meant that we could come and stay at her summer home and thus my DH could go and serve her in the role of manservant that MIL thinks she is supremely entitled to. MIL has pages and pages of this never ending sonny do list of all the big ticket item appliances and such that DH can purchase, and then spend every moment of his time researching and installing for her.

I didn't like how often we saw her, we literally had no time for us, no couple time, we could not even take a walk as a couple without MIL on my DHs other side. All DHs time and money went towards showering MIL with these gifts, when DH got married and his resources started being spent on his family, that is when MIL declared war and has stated that the real issue is that I just woke up one day and out of the blue for no good reason decided that I just don't like MIL. MILs never ending sonny do list not being completed is clearly MIL being victimized by ME.

We went to see a counsellor back then to decide what a healthy amount of time would be to see MIL (none of us knew how personality disordered she was at that point) and we thought once a week, for maybe a couple hours, for dinner or visiting but if we were staying the weekend then one weekend a month, but that time would not spent with my DH in her role of manservant, DH was never allowed to go and be a guest, he had to earn spending time with her by pleasing her with what he could do for her.

The counsellor pointed out (before we knew how disordered she was and before she started with the dangerous behavior of injuring herself for attention and the munchausen by proxy bit she did with our daughter- just to  name a drop in the bucket of her horrendous behavior towards us). The counsellor pointed out that once kids come, it might be once every 6 weeks we go for a weekend visit where we stay over night.

This topic was discussed in much detail years and years and years ago (okay- only 7 years ago) but now since MIL has had 7 years to pull horrendous antic after horrendous antic, I tollerate no more then three exposures a year and even that is too much for me at times, not healthy for our family, causes alot of upset and fighting over MIL (again)

It is dangerous to go near MIL actually, give her and inch and she takes miles and miles, if I exposed my DD to her, MIL would snowball this into meaning that she is welcome to go to her school and try to abduct her (clearly this is the permission that this must mean) then MIL will reak all kinds of havoc (and she had done it several times) and then claim she meant no harm, she is just a little old lady that just loves so much. She doesn't function like a fully functioning adult you know, thus we are suppose to see all her dangerous antics as cute and childlike and meaning no harm. It is an absolutely ludicrus situation.

So now I tollerate these exposures, get through them as unscathed as I can and it is all about damage control with my MIL, trying to control the damage that this woman causes to our family.

This Christmas I think I am going to do a big Christmas do, that way I can have buffers there....

Yes I have to plan like this to tollerate MIL, and to get through these exposures, that is how toxic she is.




pam1

Quote from: Laurie on November 12, 2010, 03:12:37 PM
Hey Pam... checking in with you so see if you're still totally swamped with your MIL's holidays plans?  Wondering if you did a visual with dh so he could see for himself what your lives have become.  I know at one point you mentioned trying to spend more holiday time with your family.. how's that going for you?

Hi Laurie, how are you?  And yes, the visual helped DH so much!  Thank you, that was an awesome idea, I can't thank you enough.

However, while he is able to "see" it, MIL still doesn't.  Now I'm being accused of breaking up her family and her traditions and apparently it's all just because I hate her.  It's a lot of tension around here.  While DH and I are more on the same page or at least in the same paragraph now, MIL has ramped it up big time especially with the holidays coming.  Now we are supposed to have a family meeting with her to explain why we don't want to do some of the same stuff she wants to do, i.e. pretending like she's Santa to the kids.  I doubt it will go well and I don't think it's a good idea but it's falling on deaf ears.  At this point, DH and I both decided we are going away next year and it very well may become our tradition to do so.  You won't believe some of the things they are arguing about, I feel like I'm 5 years old again.

I don't know what all this will mean and how much of an impact it will have on DH, but now I feel a lot of freedom to decline to participate in the every weekend stuff and I've felt a lot of personal relief.  I feel like the pressure has been put back in the right places.   I hope it keeps up and hope the holidays pass quickly and DH and I can find some enjoyment with each other this year -- so far no holiday has been a pleasant memory for either of us together, how sad!
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

pam1

GWN, my counselor also third partied diagnosed MIL as having a personality disorder.  I thought at first it was kind of poppy cock, she'd never met her and what good does that do anyway lol.  But I've been reading a little and how different it is to deal with someone with pd and normal ways of interaction never work, exactly what I had been banging my head against the wall about.  Everything that I was doing that would make sense to a "normal" person was great offense to someone with pd. 

Do you have any resources that helped you?
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

LaurieS

I'm so happy that your husband is now standing next to you and understanding how the demands are effecting you and your marriage.  Your MIL does sound like she could use some therapy or drugs slipped in her eggnog. 

As a parent of a married 27 year old son.. I realize without having to have it beaten into me that he has a life with his wife.  The sad part is, she is the one who is constantly trying to pull massive amounts of family into all their holidays and gatherings.  When he said that he had booked a Christmas cruise, I thought that was the best thing he could do for their marriage. 

Making some of your own traditions is long overdue... MIL will fight, scream and behave like a child throwing a massive temper tantrum, but at the end of the day, it's your life, hubby and your own parents need you as well.  I sure wouldn't argue with her, I'd simply tell her what you are and are not willing to participate in.

Good luck and have a great holiday season..  your way.

GreatWhiteNorth

Pam1- There are blog pages and many many articles and books written on the topic and I can pass them along if you are interested. The very best book on the topic was from Dr. Scott Peck called The People of The Lie, it is a a wonderfully written book on the topic, he suggests that the particular brand of NPD that my MIL is should more accurately be called Evil Personality Disorder. It is an interesting read, and he is right there is a certain point where the actions cross the line.

The thing that is interesting about this book is that he suggests that we deal with that through love, that puzzled me so much, how does one love MIL? I didn't even know where to start. So I started to research love and came across the Love Dare, a wonderful book that is chapter after chapter of what love is. I do my utmost to practice these principals in dealing with the effects of MIL, I practice these principals on my husband and do try to be patient and kind and take the suggestions seriously and I didn't do the dare per say, I more read each chapter and took my time and carefully reflected on what it all meant, how it fit into my life.

Our counsellor was a great resource to help us manage the situation and minimize the toxic effects of it on our family and marriage. In counselling, we never ever barely talked about MIL- yes there was the acknowledgement that she is severely personality disordered and she helped us understand how MIL got that way, not an excuse for how she is but reasons it happened. I always got the impression that pity is what we should feel for MIL. But we focused on us, on strengthening our marriage and continuing to be strong, you see when you do that it is one the biggest defenses against MIL whos personality disorder is essentially a parasite that drains our marriage, that drains our family.

Next, I started to look at myself. It is interesting to be read about NPD and all but I found getting too wrapped up in that meant I was looking at MIL instead of myself, and if I am doing that I am not improving, not growing, not learning anymore but instead stuck looking at the pink elephant in the room. I found what it was in me that made me a good target for MIL who is essentially no more then my bully. Then I started to work on that, started to work on me, improving myself.

Since I have done that, it is interesting, my strength somehow weakens MIL- as you say, and you are so correct, it is so backwards dealing with a personality disordered person. The biggest thing I did to offend MIL, was simply to withdraw from the situation. I was not retaliating against her in any way or doing anything to hurt her, I simply took myself out of the situation to allow myself to heal, and wow, talk about hurting MIL, that was the worst thing I could have done, you see in doing that I withdrew her N supply, her negative attention.

MIL was more torked up then ever before with my withdrawal, so MIL started to fake illness for attention. MIL is her own worst enemy, all she did there was manage to nulify all her horrific words that she spoke to my DH about me, now MIL was truly seen as not in her right mind and I got the peace I have been praying for, MILs words stopped effecting our marriage since she only managed to nulify her toxic words to my DH that were causing so much pain for us in the past.  So I trusted God, I prayed everynight, not for anything bad to happen to her, but simply for peace from her and he answered.

So there are lots and lots of coping mechanisms, I am doing pretty good these days, except for the odd time I vent a little (like I did on here).

It is my DDs birthday, every grandchilds birthday MIL pulls a big fiasco in order to take the attention off the grandchild (all of which are under 5 at the moment) and put it onto herself. So guess I am upset gearing up for what MIL will pull this time and I did find out what it will be, found out from my DH this evening, MIL never disappoints. I can count on that as much as I can count on MIL self injuring everytime a grandchild is born to similarly steal away the attention from the newborn.

When SIL was pregnant that is how I knew she was in labour, MIL had one of her *accidents* and sure enough SIL was.

Pen

It sounds horrible. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

GreatWhiteNorth... do you think your mother-in-law is fully aware of what she is doing?  Could they really be accidents in her mind.. just wondering

GreatWhiteNorth

November 21, 2010, 03:40:07 AM #68 Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 03:44:23 AM by GreatWhiteNorth
Laurie: I truly do believe that MIL knows exactly what she is doing, these are my reasons. And these are only a few examples of MILs behavior.

1. MIL behaves perfectly fine when SILs family is around. If MIL is aware enough to know when to put on her Narcissistic mask and behave, MIL also knows when to misbehave.

2. When my DD was a newborn, to push my buttons, MIL grabbed her from my arms and started to walk around with her all wobbly, tripping on everything in path, with my DD held very far away from her body as if she was going to drop her at any minute.

When my son was born, when DHs back was turned, MIL grabbed him did a bit of unsafe wobbling, looked at me, smirked and then handed the baby back.

MIL has never ever done this to BIL and SILs children, it is only reserved for ours.

That sounds like a woman who knows exactly what she is doing.

3. When MIL tried to move into our house when DH first moved in, MIL speaks two languages, one is German and one is English, I don't understand German. MIL spoke English the whole three weeks she was in my home (trying to move in with DH- when DH moved in) and then when MIL was trying to get DH to deposit X amount of his money into her account weekly for spending money (even though MIL has quite a bit of money in the bank of her own) , when she was doing this she all of a sudden switched to German.

MIL was hiding what she was trying to do to DH from me by asking in German, making her claims in German. Her claims that were this money would "make it up to her" that FIL was apparently maltreating her again, she upped the anti to claim that she was afraid FIL would now start to beat her.

(MIL makes up these claims for attention, and then requires her sons to make it up to her by showering her in very expensive gifts. Constantly setting FIL up to look like he is abusing her)

If MIL is hiding what she is doing by speaking German, then she knows to  hide it, she knows what she is asking for is shameful...

MIL knows what she is doing.

4. The way that MIL sets up FIL is another point.

FIL has a thick German accent, he makes the comment that blueberries are bigger in Germany then here in Canada. MIL depends on us not understanding FILs thick accent, hears this, and pounces on the opportunity. MIL immediately hangs her head and in her best victim pose she states "oh FIL.....why must you always berate me" she starts the crocodile tears and gets all kinds of "awe...poor mom" reactions out of her sons.

That is a bit too calculated for it to be from someone who truly does not know what they do....that is how they excuse MIL for her behavior, claim that she knows not what she is doing, thus us giving her consequences would mean that we are vicitimizing HER.

MIL is a severe form of NPD, NPDs by legal definition are not insane and it is not an issue of them not being able to help it, for reasons similar to this one.

I should post some of her illness faking behavior, and how she stops it exactly when it is not getting her what she wants.

Pen

My GM was a lot like your MIL, GWN. I suspect she was NPD too, as is my DF (her son.) Creepy weird stuff, so sorry you've had to contend w/it.
IMHO, although they can control their behavior I'm not sure they know what they're doing or that it's out of line - my DF always claimed he was just sitting there minding his own business when WHAM! People started beating up on him (not literally) for no reason! Our observations of the same events were way different, LOL.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

I would not tolerate your mil speaking anything but English when you are present.  That is rude and unacceptable and if your dd is going along with that I would be all over his stuff until he realized how wrong that behavior is.  If it continued I'd pass dh notes and say boldly, well I don't know another language and this is my way of blocking you from the conversation.

I would  then withdraw from her and I would  be upfront about it, saying that you are not comfortable or happy when she is behaving in this manner. 

My own mil who I am very close to, has played similar games, not to the same extent.  She has a mobility issue and uses a walker.. but I walked in on her and she was walking pretty good around the house.  She saw me watching her and she said oh I can't find my walker, I couldn't let it go and had to mention that she wouldn't have misplaced it if she was dependent on it as she likes for everyone to think.  She stated using a wheelchair and had to sit in it all the time.. she'd roll around my house denting door frames and such.. but then I noticed that it was never in her house.. I called her on it as well.  With my mil, telling her that you aren't buying it seems to work.. that might not be the case with yours.

luise.volta

Oh, that comment about "passing a note" is wonderful! I love it! There are so many ways not to feel helpless! ;D
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pen

Laurie, I can just picture the note passing scenario and the wheelchair/walker game. You should write a screenplay. I know it's not funny when you're living it, but it's cracking me up right now.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

LaurieS

Sometimes being creative is worth some bonus points in life. 

My first holiday company is coming in about 2 hours.. ready or not the holidays are here.  My daughter just called and said that she and her bf just had a spat.. I told them that there will be no spatting on my day.  The house is clean, big pot of Texas Chili cooking on the stove.. I've gotten my shower and I'm ready. 

luise.volta

Oh, yum! I'm coming! I'm coming! :D
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama