What should I do?

[luise.volta]

Well put, Nana. Sometimes they are just laying for us...(MILs or DILS...and anything can be a trigger (excuse.)

[erma]

well put miss priss, i should never except a gift from someone who publicly or not, despised me every day of the year and then gives me a gift at Christmas, or my b-day. maybe i should turn that around on my DIL. she publicly despises me all the time but gives us a gift at Christmas and b days. so your saying i should try giving them back?
i however do not operate in that fashion. i simple do not want to exclude her in anyway. if we excluded her in any fashion, things would get really bad. let me see if i can explain it from a parents point of view. when you have more than one child, gift giving can be tricky. so at Christmas time we as parents tried to be fair in "how many, who got what" what ever. it was never to "humble" or to "force gratitude". normal parents, and IL's just want to be excepted, and to have peace. believe me, if i didn't give my DIL a present at Christmas, or for her birthday, we would be accused of some horrid behavior. so what can we do to make dil happy? to me, its a no win situation. we don't "hate" her, we truly wanted her to feel part of. and as far as "the good guy" theme, i don't think i have to justify anything. i know i give from my heart, as do alot of us. we would never make it in to a power play. i send out Christmas cards once a year to people i haven't heard from in a long time. that doesn't mean i expect anything, it just means , "I'm thinking of you". that's my take on it, not all MIL's are malicious, same goes for DIL"s. gope that made sense

[erma]

yes, well put nana! and yes, miss priss does have a unfortunate situation at hand. 

[Annie123]

Now see...here is where my redneck gene rises to the surface and overrides good judgement.  ( Guilty!!!

And Ms.Priss, I really do enjoy reading your replies. I'm learning so much from you how the other side of this feels. Thank you! And I'm sorry your MIL is so bad to you. No one.. MIL or DIL deserves to be treated badly!
   Hugs, Annie

[miss_priss]

Meh, it is what it is, and we are all different.  And the people we are dealing with are all different, and therefor our relationships and how we react to them are all different...so can any of us ever really be "right?"  What was right for me may not be right for all.  Heck, it probably isn't right for anyone, but I honestly had just met my breaking point.  My cup runneth over, my bag was full, I'd had enough of it.  Patience is something I've always struggled with, I still do.  And I'm sure that many of you think I should have given her more time, more opportunity to set things right, I should have been more compassionate, I should have just "let it slide" more, I should just forgive and forget and try again and again to make it work with my MIL.  I probably could have tried harder, I certainly could have avoided doing a few things that made it worse.  I could have bitten my tongue a little more.  I could have let her comments go, I could have played by her rules to keep her happy.  But I'm not a "puppet," and that's what she didn't like about me.  The majority of her family are just "drones,' doing a dance around her to make sure she's happy, because there is always hell to pay when MIL isn't happy, and she takes a lot of pride in that.  It's very sad.  My DH is proof that rotten people can raise a good person, although every now and then, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree I'll admit.  He did grow up with her, he does have her genes, and occasionally he can really throw down a childish tantrum.  It doesn't take him long to remember that those tactics don't work with me. 

[justus]

I got my usual birthday card and check from MIL a couple of weeks ago, but I wasn't sure if I should accept the check. I don't personally have a problem with my MIL, but she recently sent a guilt ridden email to my DH that basically told him that she doesn't consider him part of her family anymore and he was welcome back whenever he was ready to play by her rules. It really hurt him as this was so far off of his perception of things. It seems he should not have moved to another state to get his Ph.D. and then he should not have moved to the other side of the country to take the only job that was offered to him. Nope, he should have stayed around to help raise the newest troubled kid that the PILs had adopted instead of growing up, becoming successful, and creating a life of his own. Even now, he should quit his job and move "home", even though because his area of specialty is so narrow that getting a job in his home town would be next to impossible and that he hates that town, because his siblings, all of them adult and over the age of 35, need him to take care of them.  It was because DH wasn't there that the kid ended up being a waist of space, it had nothing to do with the way the PILs raised him. It was an awful letter. But, DH has been trained from birth to never say anything that would hurt his Mom, so he has not answered this letter. He is 50 and still cannot speak the truth to his Mom. I think he should because he has years of resentment built up and they will never resolve anything until he does actually communicate with her.

Each year, she usually calls me. This really means something to me since my own M is cut off, and does not recognize my birthday in any way anymore except to cry on the shoulders of my siblings about losing her DD. It would have been awkward if she had called, but it would also have been nice, too. Sorry, had to get that off my chest.

Since I don't know my MIL all that well, I usually don't judge her presents. She usually just gives me a check or a gift card anyway, but my Mom has given me some pretty passive/aggressive gifts in the past. When we decided to reduce the amount of TV watched in our house, she bought DH and I a DVD player and each of the kids a TV for their rooms. She normally did not spend that kind of money on us because she can't afford to, but that year she went into debt to let me know what she thought of our decision. I am not Christian, but she always gave me a book or a plaque or a Christian themed ornament for Christmas. I always ignored the intent, thanked her in general for her gifts and then got rid of the inappropriate ones. If I had made a fuss, that would have made her happy. I have known women who got dirty clothes, clothes in the wrong sizes (one woman who had just lost all the baby fat and was looking good got extra large along with a snide comment from her MIL), and others who got obviously used stuff while everyone else in the family got lavish gifts. There are ways to use "gifts" to hurt people. My sister never gave me an honest gift in her life. It was only a matter of time before she would attempt to absorb it into her household. If I wouldn't give it, she would steal it.

It is like when I began to learn how thieves stole things. I became an assistant manager, so I had to learn about it in order to help prevent it. I was shocked. I had no idea there were so many ways to steal from a store. I was sickened. I wasn't a thief, so it never occurred to me to do these things. So, Erma, since you are not a passive/aggressive person who is trying to hurt your DIL, I can understand why you are credulous. But, there are MILs out there who are evil, mean, mentally ill, and others who are just misguided who do intentionally hurt their DILs, or do their best to try. There are DILs like this, too.

To the OP, how about a donation to a charity in the name of your DIL. It would be something she could not return. It would be better to do this in the name of the family and then give gifts only to the GCs. My ILs did this one year, and no one had a problem with it.

[erma]

  yes, i am trying to wrap my mind around these things.  i am reading these blogs with tears streaming down my face wondering how we as human beings can be so cruel to one another.
and i am starting to think maybe ( and i pray I'm wrong) my DIL is just one of these mentally ill, or just plain cruel people! gawd i pray I'm wrong! if that is the case here with my situation anyway, i see no light at the end of the tunnel. 

[cadagi101]

Guest1,
don't beat yourself up because you bought her a dress out of wanting to do something for her.  You know not to do it again..you are ahead.    I don't like my  SIL much  but she loves her children is a good parent so that is what matters most.    I would never exclude her from XMAS gifts.    (If we gave them)  We only give presents to the children .  Maybe it is a good time to change the goal posts on gift giving, no-one needs to feel obligated in any way.   If that is out of the question   I would buy a lovely container of biscuits or chocolates for the family and then a special gift for the children.   You won't have to address her personally on a card,  just a card  to dear ....family, I would not ever write something such as "i wish we had a better relationship" etc.   My SIL and I have become closer since she had serious breast cancer, I sent her lovely soaps and lotions just for her, for no reason   other than I loved doing it and for the first time she thanked me and spoke to me,  our relationship was uncomfortable until then but she could see I was genuine.    My db told me how much it meant to her to recieve the small gifts.     

[cadagi101]

i gave them a "family gift" a membership to a local aquarium, i called and asked ds if it was something they would enjoy, he was thrilled. so i purchased it. when she opened it, she blurted out, "eewww, i hate fish"  , some peoples kids.  but i agree with scoop, before purchasing a large ticket item, ask dil. 
my take on it though is, what is a gift really??  when did we evolve from gift giving into " thats what i want and your gonna get it for me"?

Now that is funny, if I were you I would have laughed my head off to the ewww comment and said oh well (sounding as genuine as you can muster) you don't have to go, I didn't know you hated fish.    It;'s a lovely aquarium the children will love it.   

[cremebrulee]

Guest
You did a nice thing for your dil...I skimmed over your post and didn't see that you bought her a dress...please don't beat yourself up...you thought you were doing a nice thing for her...

and I apologize for being so frank....I was thinking of my mother and how she always did that and how it really upset me...and I know I am wrong for feeling like that, I am wrong...however, you don't know my mother...

Guest....it's a gift...however, now you know what she doesn't want...so, you try again...and again....I'm sorry your having such a horrible time with it all....it just doesn't make sense...and it is unfair...Julia is absolutely right...

hugs
Creme

[Barbie]

Thank you all for all the replies. Lots of good advice. Sometimes when you're so wrapped up in a situation it's hard to see a clear picture.

To sum up some of your questions/comments, DS told us that DIL doesn't want anything from us and doesn't want anything to do with us, I personally could not exclude her from anything,  I also hate to have to walk on eggshells, but in spite of her having said that, for the past year, she has allowed us to see our DS and GD on a regular basis, not as often as we'd like to see them but we have to give her credit for that, she could very easily turn the situation around and our DS wouldn't do a thing to change it, that's the reason I don't want to mess up.

We've never given DIL clothes, Nana was the one who said she bought her DIL a dress once. We've always given DIL money except for a couple of times when we bought them some furniture that they wanted and when we go on vacation we have bought them souvenirs from the different countries/islands.

I've decided not to ask DS, as much as I hate to say this, he cannot be trusted, he may very well tell her and make her angry and cause problems even between them.
So...my dear ladies, I think I will stick to giving her money as usual and hope for the best, I also hope that she'll come, if not I'll send it with DS.

[cremebrulee]

Guest,
Your doing the right thing in not talking with him about it...all it does is cause more problems...believe me....he will become very hurt and frustrated and talk to her, she perceives it all different they you do...I've heard mil's or dils' say..."oh she's lying,"...it's not that she's lying, she just saw the whole situation differently...

Guest, I'm really sorry your experiencing this...but maybe if you back off, she will change....she need to know that you respect her wishes right now...you see, the harder you push, the more you push her away...she doesn't view it as trying...she views it as your trying to buy her affections....so, let her go and get a gift for son and GC, but respect her wishes....and one day, maybe you could tell son,
I really wish I could give DIL something, but I want to let her know, I respect her wishes....so that maybe time will heal....and then much later, perhaps you could ask him if there is anything he knows that you could do to correct things....?  But much later...right now give them time....especially over the holidays...don't push...and make plans which are going to make YOU happy...that is so important....when she feels that your not consentrating on them, she'll perhaps return? 

I hope so

Creme

[free_at_last]

DS told us that DIL doesn't want anything from us

There is your answer.  You've been told she doesn't want anything from you, a boundary has been set.  As creme said, she needs to know you will respect her wishes.  I'm not saying the boundary is or isn't fair or justified, but it does need to be respected if you want things to get better.  By giving her something when you have been specifically asked not to, you are crossing that boundary.  I know that sounds harsh but that is how she is looking at it. 

[Pen]

I completely understand respecting DIL boundaries such as this one on birthdays, graduations or whatever (hey, more cash for us to spend on ourselves, LOL), but would like some advice regarding Christmas gifts. What would this look like at a Christmas celebration? For example, DS is still wanting to spend EOY with us, and has stated firmly that he wants stockings and so forth as usual (I know, I know.) While everyone else is pulling silly gifts out of their stockings or opening a gift from under the tree, what is DIL doing? How do we make her more comfortable during that time? Or does she get to dictate our holiday agenda to the point where none of us have stockings or gifts if she's there? I'm not being snarky, I honestly want to know. A real-life example would be very helpful to me.  ("Just let her sit there" doesn't count; that would make us all very uncomfortable, and our comfort level, especially in our own home, is also important.)

[free_at_last]

Pen, I saw where your son told you not to get anything for DIL because she didn't deserve it, but did SHE ever specifically say not to get her anything?  If not, then, yes, you would still give her a gift as you would any other member of the family.  Your son has made it clear that he still wants to continue with stockings and gift-giving, and leaving her out would just be awkward and make you look bad UNLESS she has told you not to.