Expectations and Acceptance

[cremebrulee]

I loved reading this thread....thanks for starting it, and thanks to all for bringing some very good and thought provoking messages to the table.

Justus, it's great seeing you and reading you again, as always...you always offer such savvy advice....hope things are going well for you....

Rejection can be one of the most painful and dreaded of all situations that some experience in life...

If I'm rejected, I will back off, maybe they do it once or twice, to give them the benefit of the doubt, but what they're doing is asking me, without words, to please back off....I don't need a reason from them, if they're interested or if I'm wrong, they will contact me.

Some, will lure you in, purposely to reject you again and again...
I won't buy into deliberate mean ness and won't allow myself to be someone's victim....or allow someone to bully me...simply put, I just feel we are not a good fit, there is a personality conflict of sorts and it doesn't really bother me.

Rejection hurts, heck we're human, why wouldn't it....however, we need to embrace the pain of it, so we can move on and view it as what it is....even in family rejections....you cannot "make" someone like you...there is knowledge in embracing hurt, and self examination...life knowledge. 

some relationships are worth fighting for however, if the person is rejecting you, the more you try, the more they will be agrivated, by calls, stop overs or trying to put yourself in the same place they are, just let them go...you can't mend it...it's takes two who mutually agree to do so, and if someone is being mean to you, it's b/c they don't know how to say to you...I don't want to be around you....so, let them go....and move on, even if it's a family member.

in the face of rejection, for myself, I immediately change habits in my life, and lean towards something new, be it enrolling in a class, planning a weekend getaway....and striving to just forget about it...sometimes it's not easy, but lets face it, you can't force yourself on someone, and if you do, it will only prolong your hurt, you make yourself a victim and again are invading someone's privet space, why would you want to push yourself on someone? 

You cannot force people into liking you...we all want to be liked, however, we can't all like each other...sometimes, we're just not a good fit....

Get outside, go for walks, do something for you to energize your positive side, and allowing it to overtake the negative...I find nature is something that really draws me in, makes me feel fantasitic about myself, and lets me know, how very connected to everything and all I am...the person who is rejecting you is the looser, not you, remember that and keep repeating it to yourself.  I'm to the point, I just don't care any more...that is they're choice, and if they don't want me in they're life, why would I want to be?  Even if it is a family member. 

The more you let someone go and get on with your life, the quicker it mends itself....I don't snob people who reject me, and in the autumn of my life, there havent' been many rejections....and if there are, I just don't really care...if you don't like me, that is your choice, and your free to choose as I am. 

When we face rejection, there is a fear that overwelms us and can cause anxiety and a great deal of angst....it's a fear of being alone or feeling a loneliness...you've seen me write several times, I'm alone but not lonely...

Try if you can to examine your own personal degree to which you can create your own happiness--even when alone. Examine how too much dependence on others for happiness can undermine your feelings of confidence with others and lead to fear of rejection. (these are just suggestions and not aimed at anyone here, including the OP) There are many people out there who so depend on others for happiness, which is where expectations come into play. 
You cannot force someone into doing your bidding, or pleasing you, if you do, you set them up to fail and yourself up to fail, no one can or is able to live up to your personal expectations that define you....unless you communicate to them your needs....

You've heard many husbands say, ?Sheesh, she expects me to be able to read her mind???"   Those are unrealistic expectations that no one can fill...if you cannot communicate your feelings and let people know what is going on in your head, well, quite candidly, they're not going to know, and when they don't know, if they fear rejection, and are insecure about themselves, they are going to take it as a personal attack against them...
A bully thrives on this, a bully is an emotional vampire and will suck the life out of you, if you allow them to...they live for this and find joy in it...don't let them...ignore them, until they go away....

Fear of rejection is actually negative feedback to the self about who you are...very important to remember that...Luise wrote, don't let anyone define who you are and she is right...when your dependent upon others for happiness, you are allowing others to define your identity...you depend on that to live, and that is co-dependency...(I found that out, after leaving my husband and planning my first vacation to the Bahamas) Remember sitting there watching the sun set, and thinking, how could he have soiled our vows, or why didn't he take them seriously, how could he have laid with another woman?  I was so torn apart....then oddly, it hit me...all that I'm writing about....and I realized, that Inot only compromised my identity but allowed him to define it.  It wasn't all his fault, it was me, he didn't live up to my expectations, but I choose someone who never could have...someone insecure and alwayss needed to be in a new relationship to feel good about himself.  So, I was at fault here to, he was my choice, so the next step was to figure out, why I choose someone who wasn't able to be loyal to himself, let alone me.  (that's another story) but do you see where I'm going with this?

If your self-image is too closely tied to what others think of you or how well you relate to others, then fear of rejection can be a threat to your whole self-image. That in itself can create a lot of anxiety. If you are used to defining the core of your Self or your future as "popular," "married," "well-liked," "a leader," or the like, then threats to any of these self-concepts may create a great deal of anxiety. Or you may view your life script as being married, having children, or having a number of close friends. To the degree that any of those expectations are threatened, and you cannot see how you can be happy without them, then you will experience anxiety.

How can you overcome fear of rejection which threatens your self-image or life expectations of others? You must define yourself and your essence in a way that does not depend upon what others think. For example, if you define yourself as someone whose main goals are to seek happiness for yourself and others; treat others kindly, honestly, and assertively; be a person of integrity; and not worry about other's reactions to you, then meeting your primary goals will not be dependent upon what others think. Your happiness will be in your control, and you will feel much more secure.

And always remember, who you are, the goodness in you along with your faults, are the who of who you are, and you are very significant in this circle of life...stop and think about all those who have crossed your path, or they've crossed yours, it's all purposeful, even the pain...the hard knocks and struggles...it's all got purpose and is simply put, part of our own life's journey, we either get it, or we don't....we move on, or we don't....we are open minded or we are not, we are aware of the needs wants and desires of others, only when we become aware of our own, and we are able to accept...and love ourselves, instead of constantly beating ourselves up by thinking life is supposed to be nothing but worry and analyzing situations that just didn't go our way....when we do that, we stagnate....and look for things to worry about, and sabatoging our very own livelyhood.  No one is doing it to you but yourself...

and as justus said, or I think it was in her post...a lot of times, when I'm writing, I'm not addressing any of you, I'm sharing my thoughts and constantly reinstating them in my own mind...it is theorpy for me....

take what works for you, and what doesn't that's fine...but this is how I've dealt with things and it's worked for me, up until now, when it doesn't anymore, I'll find another way...

Hugs
Creme

[cremebrulee]

being thin skinned....most of the time Anna, it is learned behavior, meaning, it comes from one or both of our parents....we develope most of our characters, our emotions and now we react to situations from our parents....we actually parrot them growing up, they are our greatest influence....

sometimes, people who cut you out of they're lives, do so, b/c they are very afraid of rejection, actually are so afraid, they will cut you out of they're lives before you do...that's how greatly they fear rejection....

Anna, your DIL is being the kind of person her mother probably was.....and I bet you, any money, a lot of times she's angry and she doesn't know why? 

Anna, your DIL's mother was an alcoholic, right....and she does have problems...will always have problems....she is parroting the same behavior of how her mother probably treated her....it's all she knows....that is why, it is so good for kids to be exposed to many different people....they have your influence, they will have influences at school and the influences of many friends parents, so believe me, they'll be fine....

Children are resilient...and while DIL may not be doing her best...she's doing the very best she can at this time, with the tools she's had....and all she knows how to do, it's how she was taught....she is not a bad person, she is simply struggling with how to be....maybe she even resented the fact that her husband and his mother were so close and she didn't ever have that? 

I said before, that she probably looks up to you as her template for a wife and mother and I believe that....and that is probably why you've both had problems, I think, she wishes she were more like you...and with the influence of you and hubby in your GC's lives, everything is going to be fine....she is insecure and you have no idea what her life was like growing up, so try and be patient with her...I really do believe time will bring her to you, if you give her a chance....in the meantime, rest assure, that children are resilant, and try to observe DIL and find good in her...reason being, it will help draw you closer to her, so that maybe, someday she will confide in you and you will be prepared to help her....


yanno what you could do right now, work on you and stop worrying about DIL's....you said your think skinned, and you get hurt very easily, why?  Why do you think that is....?

big hugs...Creme

[free_at_last]

Anna: Do you think maybe, by not hugging and coddling her children when they are throwing a tantrum (and in the examples you gave, that is exactly what they were doing....they weren't really hurt, they were just upset that they didn't get their way) she is trying to teach them that it IS sometimes a cold world out there and they need to learn how to cope with not getting their own way all the time?  I remember when my kids started school....there were 5 kindergarten classes (and also in the other grades as they got older) in their school.  Some of the teachers were known for being a little more strict and than others.  They were all good teachers, just had different styles of teaching.  Parents could request a specific teacher for their child, or they could just let the school assign a teacher.  A very good friend always requested the nicest, most permissive teacher for her kids every year.  She thought it was awful that I never, ever requested a specific teacher for my kids.  Sometimes they got the nicest, and sometimes they got the most strict.  Her thought was...make it as easy for them as possible.  My thought was...the sooner they learn to deal with different types of people in life, the better, because it was something that they were going to have to do for their entire life.  Neither of us was right or wrong, we just had different parenting styles (and all of our kids are turning out just fine).  Yes, your gc are small, but there is a lot going on in their little bodies, growing and learning every day, and it's never too early to start learning life lessons....your DIL may believe that giving positive attention (hugs) for throwing a tantrum is only going to reinforce the behavior.  It doesn't mean she doesn't feel any emotion or that she's teaching her kids not to show emotion, she's only trying to teach them that some emotions aren't appropriate for certain situations (like throwing a fit when they don't get their way). 

[pam1]

I don't know, in my family we were taught to actively manage our emotions, especially negative ones.  We were pretty much raised by the etiquette books concerning this subject lol.  I think it can come across as I'm unemotional to DH's family b/c they don't have the same beliefs.  It's not that I'm unemotional but it's pretty ingrained in me that there is a time and a place.  If you can't control it, you need to leave the room so as to not affect others. 

So you can imagine just how different it was getting used to DH's family!  Emotions flying around, negative ones dumped about lol.  And you know, it can start to feel like a really narrow one way street when you're hearing all about negative feelings, quite a bit from the same person over and over again.  I have my own feelings to manage too.

As everyone deals with things differently it's really hard to gauge their emotional stress levels so I think of it as being polite to others.  You aren't always going to know how someone is feeling or what they are managing at that point in their lives. So this is just my opinion, by being free or looser with negative emotions can be hard on others and make them uncomfortable.  When people emote it does affect a room, that's why chronically happy people usually have a lot of friends and chronically negative don't.

[luise.volta]

My beloved ex-DIL (we never got divorced) calls it "leaking."  I would love to be able to cry but the best I can do most of the time is to tear up and be unable to talk. The exception was the day I took Val to nursing. The tears just streamed down my face for days...and of course I couldn't talk. Maybe it's because I just don't get that sad very often?

And even though I'm not a crier, people come to me and unload, too. I'm a Pisces, are you Anna? Lots of empathy.

[pam1]

Anna, I think crying can be viewed differently by different people.  I personally think depending on the situation it can be over the top or understated in such a way that it is not bothersome to others.  There is a huge difference in crying quietly with your back turned and bawling hysterically so that everyone has to hear it.  But that is just my opinion. 

Funerals to me are a normal place to show to emotions.  It is the time and place.  But say it's some years later and something triggers a memory of the deceased and you're overcome with grief?  That is where I was taught that it was important to remove yourself from the situation.  Let others determine if they have the emotional reserve to come to you instead of not giving them the option and just displaying the grief right there. 

But in any case, I wasn't really talking about reactions to grief.  For example, say Jane and Jill have problems with each other.  And Jane keeps talking to me about Jill -- I call that dumping.  Jane is dumping her negative emotions on me.  I have no dog in the fight with Jane and Jill but Jane wants to keep talking about it, to me.  It's not a pleasant subject, it's not even something I can control.  So I'm left feeling badly because Jane is feeling badly.  That type of emotional display is irresponsible to me.

And really, that is a huge part of why I'm here.  I don't want to take out my negative feelings on friends b/c of an issue I'm having and it doesn't involve them.

[free_at_last]

Wow, Pam, I could have written your post.  One of the biggest problems we had with DH's family was the constant negativity and unending drama.   

Anna, no one is saying that all crying is negative.  A funeral is certainly a sad event for everyone and crying is appropriate and necessary for healing.  Empathy tears for someone who has a real problem are also very acceptable.  I am a cry-er and I always have been, I cry at movies, I cry when people I love are hurting, heck even some commercials can make me tear up.  However crying over every little thing that doesn't go my way, or every time I think someone isn't nice to me, isn't necessary, appropriate, or productive.  Things don't always go our way...that's life!  When my kids crying because they lost someone they love, or even a pet, you can bet they got lots of hugs, kind words, and empathy tears from me, but if they were crying over me taking a toy away from them because they were misusing it (and it really doesn't matter if you think he was misusing it or not...your DIL did think he was misusing it and she is the one that gets to make that determination), then they need to learn to work through those feelings on their own.  There are better ways of dealing with disappointment than falling apart or acting out, and children are capable of learning that at an early age. 

[Nana]

Creme:

I loved your post on Rejection.  I learned a lot in it too.   For many of us is the hardest thing to do....to manage rejection.  I also think that once you get it that you are not welcome or whatever....to step back.  We should always try but as a poster said....never compromising our own identity....who we are. 

Anna:  I understand what you feel when your gc are hurting and dil is acting cold towards their emotions.  The other day, my son/dil and two gc came to visit.  My 2.5 gd was crying but really crying and sobbing because mommy took a toy away in the car because she was told not to do something with the toy (whatever) and she didnt obey.   Grandpa hold her and started consoling her but dil said she would not give the toy back....regardless.  My gd said Ï am sorry mommy...I will not do it again" dil answered Ökey....but I will not give it back....and she didnt.  I know that she did what she had to because in this case...it was my gd that was at fault.  But nevertheless I wanted to cry with dil....she was so sad about not getting back her hamster toy. 

Emotions dear Anna....are who we are.  I am very emotional too. I get hurt easily too.  In this respect, I think these are traits of our personality....who knows....I like to write about my feelings, poems, reflections.....so you see....it is who we are. 

Good luck

[elsieshaye]

one of the things that troubles me about the Buddhist idea that suffering is self inflicted seems to ignore "other induced" suffering/distress. Slavery is one example  of "other induced" suffering/distress.  I cannot, accept that everyone is responsible for their own suffering in every situation.
-snip-
Isn't it possible that distress is sometimes  "other induced" ?

There's the stuff that happens to us (often other induced) and the way we feel about it and respond to it.  The stuff that happens to us may be awful, but the suffering that accompanies it is all about how we feel and think about the event or action, versus being about the event or action itself.

Example:  My ex used to shout at and belittle me in public, especially during school meetings for our son.  He would also shout at and belittle the school staff during those meetings.  I was often in an agony of humiliation, fear and anger during those meetings, because I felt responsible for his behavior, was worried about how the school would react, was terrified of my ex, and felt like the outcome was entirely on my shoulders even though I had no actual power or control where my ex was concerned.  So prior to meetings, I would get anxious and physically ill, because I felt powerless yet responsible.  The external event in that case, was his raging, the thoughts and feelings were responsibility, fear, anger, powerlessness, and the suffering was both physical and emotional (vomiting and intense anxiety). 

After years of this, I finally learned that his behaviors weren't up to me to either prevent or fix, that the school had lots of experience with obnoxious parents and could handle themselves professionally, and that I was not responsible for my x in any way.  So we would go to meetings, he would rage, and I was able to detach enough to just watch him do it, without the incredible anxiety (or the vomiting), and then say my piece.  I was even able to start politely opposing him during meetings, which I was not able to do earlier.  Same external event, but different thoughts and emotional reactions to the event, and much less suffering. 

That's the kind of thing that Buddhism is talking about.  Not that awful things don't happen to people, or that people are responsible for the awful things that happen to them, but that how people think and feel about those things determines how they will experience them. 

My distress is my emotional reaction to the external event that happened to me.  I can learn to have a different emotional reaction that decreases or gets rid of my distress, even if I can't change or prevent the external event.  Does that make sense?

[cadagi101]

elsie, it makes perfect sense and I learnt a lot from your post.  All of these posts are food for thought I am so grateful I think they are so informative.
thankyou

[pam1]

Wow, Pam, I could have written your post.  One of the biggest problems we had with DH's family was the constant negativity and unending drama.   

Anna, no one is saying that all crying is negative.  A funeral is certainly a sad event for everyone and crying is appropriate and necessary for healing.  Empathy tears for someone who has a real problem are also very acceptable.  I am a cry-er and I always have been, I cry at movies, I cry when people I love are hurting, heck even some commercials can make me tear up.  However crying over every little thing that doesn't go my way, or every time I think someone isn't nice to me, isn't necessary, appropriate, or productive.  Things don't always go our way...that's life!  When my kids crying because they lost someone they love, or even a pet, you can bet they got lots of hugs, kind words, and empathy tears from me, but if they were crying over me taking a toy away from them because they were misusing it (and it really doesn't matter if you think he was misusing it or not...your DIL did think he was misusing it and she is the one that gets to make that determination), then they need to learn to work through those feelings on their own.  There are better ways of dealing with disappointment than falling apart or acting out, and children are capable of learning that at an early age.

FAL, I know the feeling.  The constant drama set my stomach on fire every time.

[cremebrulee]

Free at last, gs wasn't throwing a tantrum.  He was crying at having a toy taken away that he wasn't abusing.  Dil constantly yells at her children, it seems she is always looking for something wrong in their behaviour.  Something she can disipline them for.  I myself, was pretty firm when raising my own children, & don't believe in coddling all the time.  It is a cold cruel world, & IMO getting colder,  Why can't we let kids be kids for a while?  Why this need to make them face the cold hard facts of life so early?  Soon enough they will have to deal with all those things.

Hi Anna,

I agree with Free at last....regardless, DIL is the adult and children have to realize, they cannot have everything they want when they want it, life isn't like that...so whatever the reason was for DIL to take the toy away, doesn't define the problem....she took it away, and he thru a tantrum....so if he thru a tantrum, and she gives him back the toy, she is then rewarding his behavior and teaching him, he is going to get his way by doing so, and will repeat that behavior again and again, until someone gives him the toy back. 

If you don't teach children early about life, and the cold hard facts, they won't be prepared for it when they get older....my foster mother was extremely naive and trusting, she came from a generation which didn't lock they're doors, everyone knew everyone else in town, we didn't have hard core crime, theft, we left our keys in the car, etc.  If someone came to the door, you automatically opened it....never looking to see who was there....you wouldn't think of doing that today....my point is, mother never worked, being naive and trusting, was passed down to us...well, when I got out on the work force, I can't tell you how personally I took it when someone did something bad...I mean I looked up to people, and when I found out they made small or huge mistakes I took it personal.  When someone gave me constructive criticism, I took it extremely personal and thought they were telling me I was a bad person....they were not, they were simply pointing out to me, that it wasn't good or healthy to feel like I did....

Your DIL is doing the very best that she can do, and I'm with her on not giving your GS his way...yes, she is strict, and yes, she is yelling at them a lot....and there are many reasons why she is....bottom line is, she wants them to behave and if she doesn't mold they're characters now, by the time they are five years old, they have developed who they are going to be regarding behavior patterns....

I agree with you that DIL might be way to hard on them, however, it won't hurt them or mame them for life, in the end, they will be polite youngsters who know they can't always have they're way...

No one is siding with DIL against your feelings, we're just trying to explain to you, the probable whys of why DIL is doing this....plus no matter how you feel, it's not going to change, so why waste precious time worrying about it....those kids know they're mom loves them....

Kids want discipline, they need it to survive life....and it must be uniform and you should never ever threaten a kid with a consequence, if your not going to deliver...b/c they learn quickly to manipulate....believe it or not, babies know how to manipulate pretty quickly...they cry when they want to be picked up, and if you pick them up and hold them all the time, they're going to cry a lot, when not....

So, bottom line is, I wouldn't think your DIL is doing something wrong, but actually sticking to her guns, no matter how hard the child cries....that to me is a very good thing....she's not giving him his way. 

When we get older and become Grand mothers, I believe a lot of us want to give our GC they're ways and please them, b/c we love them, and we want them to love us back...however, we are not doing what is right by the child and by the parent...so, we should actually try to parrot our DIL's rules...so as not to mix the child up or let them know, it's ok to throw tantrums just b/c they want a toy....by doing so, we are actually telling the child, "if you don't do this at home, your not going to do it here"...and yanno, I'm thinking, that might be DIL's problem with you...I could be wrong, but, maybe she feels that you are not strict enough?  And she wants to make certain, those children pretty much know her rules, instead of coming to you, and you allowing them to do pretty much of what they want to do. 

Do you remember the discussion way back we had about the candy?  You thought it was all right once in a while, and DIL did not want them to have candy?  Maybe she is afraid you give them they're way to much....and by doing so, undermine her rules.  It may seem like a very small thing to you, but she sees it as a huge behavior problem, and doesn't believe in allowing them to have they're way....? 

Yanno what I'm thinking, if in front of your DIL when GC asks your for something, and you question if mommy allows it or not, instead of reacting and giving the child it's way, ask the child, in front of Mom, "What would Mommy do?"  and if the child says, no, then tell the child, "well then, we have to go by mommie's rules?  That would help your situation with DIL extremely...she would be confident, that you are not undermining her rules....you'd actually be helping her to enforce them....

Children learn about entitlement, manipulation and how to get they're ways very quickly....
Now about having your GC while DIL is home on Maternity leave...yes, you might miss them, but it's only right that mom would want to have them as much as practically possible while she is home....I would....I'd want to spend every waking moment with them, before I go back to work....and it has nothing to do with Grandmother/babysitter....nothing to do with that...she simply wants to be with them now, that she has the chance...your turn will come, when she returns to work....that to me, shows me, that she really and truly loves them...which is something you should be very grateful for....and I would suggest, you try and allow her that....consider this even though you might not want to, b/c I'm sure, it would even help you and DIL grow closer....enforce her rules, it will help build up her confidence about you as they're caregiver when she is not around...and make her job easier, make it easier for her to go to work leaving them in your care...

I bet sometimes she might dread leaving them with you, b/c she fears your going to give them they're way and not enforce her rules, which makes her look like she's wrong in her childrens eyes...now that she is talking to you more, and your gaining some ground, let her see that you are very serious about following her rules for the sake of the children....it'll show her that her feelings are important to you and will soften her fears....

remember, I'm not saying your way is wrong, what I'm saying is, it's not her way....and you want to be consistent....and, the children will love you just as much...they must learn, rules may not always be fair, but they are there for a reason....

When my son used to whine and cry and ask me "Why mommy?"  I'd say, "because I said so"...and that was it...you don't owe a child an explaination why, they're attention span, doesn't grasp it anyway....my MIL used to undermine my rules with son, and give him his way, which made my job at home that much harder, he thought, b/c MIL said yes, I'd say yes, so, in order to enforce my rules at home, I'd have to be the bad guy more then MIL, and maybe this really frustrates your DIL....? 

If when she is there, if one of the kids ask you for something, look at DIL first, before reacting and ask her, "is it ok?"  that will really make her feel happy...

doesnt' hurt to try it....Anna, the more you are able to understand why she feels the way she does, will help you get along better with you, and you'll find out, a lot of it is not you, but b/c she is the way she is and feels the way she feels about things...

I'm so learning so much here, and listening to the DIL's gives me perspective and focus on my DIL and her feelings and why she may react the way she does....I want to learn, b/c I want to do better...and for her to trust me...me to trust her....so, I'm so thankful for the DIL's coming in and giving they're feelings about things...it doesn't mean they are picking on you...or they disagree with you, what they are doing is helping you trouble shoot this one issue...and telling us how they might feel, which means, "hey, maybe my DIL feels that way because and it isn't me that she's angry at, or maybe she was insulted when I did this....or maybe...knowledge is power and will help us all work our way back to them...by understanding they're thoughts anf feelings on the subjects...

[justus]

I totally agree with Creme on this. I know it is hard to stand by and watch your child/DIL get caught up in things that don't really matter, like freaking out when the GC picks something up off the floor and puts it in her mouth. It is so hard to say nothing. And, it is hard to watch your GC cry. You want them to always be happy, no matter what. But, you have to keep in mind that you don't know the history. Maybe you witnessed this one seemingly small event, but maybe there were five similar events previously and Mom has just had enough. You don't know, but while your GC is crying and begging and seemingly contrite, your heart breaks for him and you want to make it all OK.

I have been on both ends of this. My Mom constantly undermined my parenting and consequently I was often either too soft or too hard on my DS in reactions to my Mom's obvious displeasure. For too long, I raised my children by committee, which was just stupid on my part, but I was trying to do the impossible and please my parents. With DD, who was never a problem, this wasn't an issue, but with DS, who was a challenge, he was the one who suffered. the most. He learned how to play his grandma. He would give her some story about how it wasn't his fault, or he would take some of the blame, and neglect to give her the whole story so she thought I had totally overreacted. Instead of questioning his ridiculous stories and backing me up as a parent, she chose to believe him. She would  give him lots of pity and then provide what I had taken away or allow him to do what I had grounded him from. She had no respect for me as a parent and taught him not to respect me. She taught my son to lie in order to get out of trouble. This harmed him more than it ever harmed me. He told me that he was afraid to live near me when I had kids because I would do to his kids what his GM, who he now resents for what she did to him, did to him. I told him that I cared and respected him too much as a person and I would never abuse my GCs like his GM did him. Yes, I do consider it abuse. DS had to learn some hard lessons when he got out in the world.

What my Mom did was use DS to get the warm fuzzies she wasn't getting from me. She had tried to get right in the middle of my marriage, but having learned after the failure of my first marriage that this was a huge mistake, she had been given some pretty strict boundaries. When she figured out that undermining my parenting not only caused trouble in our home, but caused resentment that kept DS from bonding with my H, she went about using my DS to try and break up my marriage. It was a hot mess she created, and it was DS who suffered and still suffers because of it. Yeah, she got some warm fuzzies from spoiling DS, but in the long term it got her cut off from me, and my two DDs, and I am still happily married.

So, tread carefully here. You might temporarily make yourself and your GS feel better, but in the long run it will make you both miserable. You will be doing no one any favors. Let your DIL and DS do the parenting and teach your GC to respect their decisions even if inside you are crying. You can even commiserate with the child telling him that you understand that it is hard not to get what you want sometimes, but he has to listen to his mommy because she knows best. The best gift you can give to your GC is to support and respect his parents.

Obviously there are some situations when there is real abuse going on when one should intervene.

[pam1]

Anna, that is my definition of a tantrum.  Whether it was unjust or not, that's up to DIL -- no one else.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I can't see what your guests got out of telling you that they think DIL is too hard on GS.  Sounds like a lot of pot stirring, IMO.  Their opinions don't matter.  Unless there is abuse going on, I can't see why they would even think their opinion mattered and why they would share it with you.  If that was my sister or family member I would tell them that it's not appropriate.

[Annie123]

Anna, I think I understand some of how you are feeling when these things happen. And I believe you when you said you didn't say anything too.
I know in my own case it is so hard to watch or see my Grandson get into trouble! I've often asked myself , Why? I used to get onto his daddy. LOL Something about us getting older I think we just don't get to uptight about the little stuff like we did when our own children were young. At least that is my opinion.
But unless there is abuse we need to mind our P's and Q's and keep our grandma mouth closed. Or it might make our DILs not want to bring them around as much because she will think you are judging her?
I myself never spanked or hit my children and I hate "Yelling" But that is ME.. And what I did. My Son took after me in some of his parenting skills. And I have no problem with my DILs ways either. But if I thought it was unfair or wrong, Well I'd tape my mouth if I had too. LOL Good Luck.
Being a Grandparent isn't always Sunshine and Rainbows is it?