What makes your son afraid to be alone with you? (Grown, married son)

[barelythere]

What makes them so uncomfortable when they are alone with their Mothers?   I really wish I knew.  I think if I knew, I could be more at peace.  It's hard to explain the tension there, such a guilty look on his face.  I know him, I raised him so I know what I'm seeing.  It is heartbreaking.  He hides behind his very bossy, controlling wife.  If she is not there, I guess he thinks I'll give him a whippin' or something.  I've also never seen anyone so "there" when he's around.  Up pops her face in the middle of a little conversation.  Up pops her face close to my face.  She's a very pretty girl but up too close, you see her nose hairs and it's a little more than I can take after lunch. 

[Pen]

LOL, we've avoided the nose hairs so far

It's so weird, isn't it? I've been going through something similar. It's like DS is from a different family now and we're just odd, old acquaintances from a former life. Of course, DIL and her FOO are still a big, happy family who have incorporated DS right on in.

Again, why does it have to be that way? Why isn't my family the one that's "large and in charge?"

[barelythere]

LOL, we've avoided the nose hairs so far

It's so weird, isn't it? I've been going through something similar. It's like DS is from a different family now and we're just odd, old acquaintances from a former life. Of course, DIL and her FOO are still a big, happy family who have incorporated DS right on in.

Again, why does it have to be that way? Why isn't my family the one that's "large and in charge?"

As Auntie Mame said when Patrick said he was going to marry the ever so uppity and fake, Gloria Upson, "Now why did I ever buy him those long pants?!"

[cremebrulee]

I think they are afraid that you are going to want to discuss the issue with them....and they hate confrontation....arguing, or being put in a position where they have to take sides....

[barelythere]

You're so right, Creme.  And yes, in the past, I could have asked him what was wrong and he'd tell me but now, it's dire and he knows he's done wrong.  I guess guilt is in him but according to his wife, guilt is not going to be a part of their lives, well, good for them.  She's told me that that's the way it's going to be.  Yet, when her family member was ill, we were the ones who rallied and became the caretakers but when we're ill or left out, it's not to be.  It hurts but it's the way it is so we shall love the ones who love us.  How do you get through losing your own child?  That precious child you loved with all your heart?  I'll get over it and go on but you know it's living with only half a heart. 

[Pen]

Creme, my DIL knows we aren't going to discuss his marriage with him - he vented to us about DIL's dislike for us and we were very clear about his responsibility/loyalty first being to his wife; we were not going to be part of that discussion. Afterwards I was concerned that he felt we weren't supportive enough! Darned if you do, and all that.

I think DS is a little ashamed of how his wife has treated us and how he has capitulated to her, so it's hard for him to look us in the eye or discuss anything of substance. He is well aware of how much we've loved, supported and provided for him. BT, I agree that it may be guilt.

[Barbie]

Barely, DS admitted to me that he's ashamed of what's happened between us to the point that he's gotten depressed but he's working on that, it hurts him to see how happy other families are and he doesn't have that anymore.
I don't like to be alone with my son anymore either, I feel very awkward, we used to be very close and now I can't find anything to talk to him about, I'm afraid whatever I say to him when he tells DIL she'll turn it around and brainwash him against me some more.

[barelythere]

Barely, DS admitted to me that he's ashamed of what's happened between us to the point that he's gotten depressed but he's working on that, it hurts him to see how happy other families are and he doesn't have that anymore.
I don't like to be alone with my son anymore either, I feel very awkward, we used to be very close and now I can't find anything to talk to him about, I'm afraid whatever I say to him when he tells DIL she'll turn it around and brainwash him against me some more.

Guest, at least he admitted that to you.  What a blessing for you that he did!  At least you know.  I wonder now if this is the reason this strapping young man who I gave birth to had to go to the hospital when his brother and family arrived several months ago.  They were here for a celebration so he was trying to get his family together to meet us all, along with his brother and family.  Obviously, his wife was having one her intentional obstructionist moments where she doesn't comment or help, just sits.  He is a people pleaser so if she is having one of her moments, he is torn to pieces trying to make everyone happy.  He arrived at the celebration in tears. Could not control himself and had to excuse himself 3 times to go to the bathroom.  If you could see him, you'd be so shocked that he ever cried.  Guilt is hard but it is one of the human traits we have that animals don't have.

[miss_priss]

There could be thousands of reasons for the "disconnect."  I can tell you one scenario though...

When MIL made her dislike for me known, it changed his relationship with her.  When she began to make snide comments about me to him, he said it became cumbersome to be around her because it put him in a bad situation.  He told her to stop, and to either be nice to me, or to just stay away from me (at that point, he thought it would be ok to have a "double-life").  When she started to simply ignore my existence, he started to shut down around her because of the way she treated me.  When she started to take her discard for me out on our infant daughter, he drew the line.  His mother simply was not going to be happy until she ran me off and took over raising our daughter with my DH. 

And yes, I've been on the recieving end of "its all her fault, she's manipulating him and controlling him."  His mother told everyone, including him, that their relationship had changed because he "was afraid of me."  That's crap and I'm not afraid to say it.  His relationship with her did not change in any way because he was afraid of me, it changed because her attitude towards me never did.  Yes, he did stand by me.  Yes, he did tell his own mother to back off and mind her business.  Yes, he did tell his own mother that she had to accept ALL of us or none of us.  Yes, he did cut his own mother off, and yes, we are now keeping her grandchild away from her.....and yes, she still tells everyone she comes into contact with that her son is being manipulated and controlled into cutting his family off.  It's simply not true.  I've encouraged him to visit his mother and always did.  I've encouraged him to try to work it out with her, because I want our daughter to know her grandmother if you can believe that.

I guess my point is that whenever there is a malfunction in your relationship with his wife/girlfriend, no matter whose fault it was, the "middle-man" (aka, your son) can't be expected to be his "same old self" like nothing ever happened.  No matter who is at fault, HE is hurt and he's not going to be the same afterwards.  Its unreasonable to ask him to be anything different than just what he is.   

That being said, I hope your relationship with your son can be mended, at least to a livable level.  But I wouldn't expect it until the relationship with your DIL becomes at least civil on both ends.

BT - I value your posts, but this is bugging me, and I just want to say this as respectfully as I can.  Please tell me you don't speak to others, or your DIL, the way you spoke about her here (ie, her nose hairs, etc.).  I know that here, you are anonymous and are making a joke, but if this were to get back to her, then maybe she has good cause to steer clear of you.  I'm sure you don't do that outside of this forum.     

[cremebrulee]

Creme, my DIL knows we aren't going to discuss his marriage with him - he vented to us about DIL's dislike for us and we were very clear about his responsibility/loyalty first being to his wife; we were not going to be part of that discussion. Afterwards I was concerned that he felt we weren't supportive enough! Darned if you do, and all that.

I think DS is a little ashamed of how his wife has treated us and how he has capitulated to her, so it's hard for him to look us in the eye or discuss anything of substance. He is well aware of how much we've loved, supported and provided for him. BT, I agree that it may be guilt.

Pen, how long has it been since she did this?

[cremebrulee]

I know this is difficult and emotionally charging sometimes, when we read other posts...countless times, we've got hurt, b/c while reading another post, we apply it to ourselves....we must try very hard not to do that....

when I suggested that her son, might be afraid of his wife, I meant he feared an argument with her....I know for certain, that my son, and wife had huge problems b/c she and I didn't get along, and that killed me...literally killed me, and one of the main reasons I cut them off, I tried to do at the time, what was best for all of us, and not just me....the last thing I wanted was for them to separate, b/c of me....it would have been devestating....

please lets all remember, please, when any of us post something, we're not directing it at anyone here,...I don't know any of you personally, however, I wish I did...

but when your reading here, you've got to separate yourself from the posts....b/c they are not aimed at you or any MIL or DIL here....we're just sharing our own personal experiences.....

I can tell you this, any son, whose mother, doesn't accept his choice for a wife, is going to be very angry and hurt....and may even cut her off....

talk about fear....one time when I went to visit my son, he literally shook when we went out to lunch, it was that bad....he feared being in the middle, he loves me and loves his wife, and this bickering back and forth is just as hard on them as it is on us....he feared feared feared so bad, the man literally shook and couldn't control it...b/c he was so afraid we'd get into a fight...and I do believe in our own pain, we neglect to consider any one elses feelings but our own...at the time, but believe it or not, it hurts your husbands/sons just as badly....if not more sometimes, however, they don't voice they're pain, they keep it in...and then they get caught in the middle, yesing they're mothers so they don't get yelled at, and yesing they're wives so they don't get yelled at, then they have to hear both of our sides, and feel disloyal to either one, the don't know what to do or where to turn....and every time they try to talk to either side, that woman, takes it as if he is siding with the opposite one...instead of being able to listen....a man will avoid arguments...yelling and screaming....I just can't imagine what my son and DIL went thru after knowing the pain that I felt...but I think if they would have split up over this, I would have not only been torn apart inside never to be the same again, but I would have lost my son FOREVER. 

Our son's and husbands are hurting just as much as we are....!!!!! 

when we were having problems, my son dreaded discussing it...b/c all he heard was that I was not approving her and that is all he wanted, approval
I was so emotionally upset, angry and hurt, that everything I said, came out as if I were yelling...plus, when

....man, did we go round and round, and again, ist was all misperception....and two women fighting over the same man....fighting doesn't resolve it...both parties have to be able to sit down and discuss it...and I fear, any mother who discusses the situation with son and says harsh things to him about her DIL will loose both of them...you have to pick your words very carefully....but it's going to hurt the husband terrible if mom has a problem with her...and rightfully so....this is the love of his life, regardless of how we feel about her, he loves her and of course our sons are going to change, marriage, chances boys, and they become men, providers, lovers, fathers, husbands...a role that is totally different from a son...he is no longer a child, he is a man, who works full time and has chores to do...he's tired, he's dead dog tired sometimes, and he can't worry about all the things concerning mom....it's natural...and it is the way it is...and the more mom's fight it, the more we loose, we will never win, no matter how bad you believe your DIL is....

I do hope you understand, none of us are here to hurt anyone, wer've venting, looking for answers, crying inside, and angry, at whom ever we're in a disagreement with...so please try and remember not to take anything personal...that anyone writes about...





Hugs and love
Creme

[Sunny1]

There could be thousands of reasons for the "disconnect."  I can tell you one scenario though...

When MIL made her dislike for me known, it changed his relationship with her.  When she began to make snide comments about me to him, he said it became cumbersome to be around her because it put him in a bad situation.  He told her to stop, and to either be nice to me, or to just stay away from me (at that point, he thought it would be ok to have a "double-life").  When she started to simply ignore my existence, he started to shut down around her because of the way she treated me.  When she started to take her discard for me out on our infant daughter, he drew the line.  His mother simply was not going to be happy until she ran me off and took over raising our daughter with my DH. 

And yes, I've been on the recieving end of "its all her fault, she's manipulating him and controlling him."  His mother told everyone, including him, that their relationship had changed because he "was afraid of me."  That's crap and I'm not afraid to say it.  His relationship with her did not change in any way because he was afraid of me, it changed because her attitude towards me never did.  Yes, he did stand by me.  Yes, he did tell his own mother to back off and mind her business.  Yes, he did tell his own mother that she had to accept ALL of us or none of us.  Yes, he did cut his own mother off, and yes, we are now keeping her grandchild away from her.....and yes, she still tells everyone she comes into contact with that her son is being manipulated and controlled into cutting his family off.  It's simply not true.  I've encouraged him to visit his mother and always did.  I've encouraged him to try to work it out with her, because I want our daughter to know her grandmother if you can believe that.

I guess my point is that whenever there is a malfunction in your relationship with his wife/girlfriend, no matter whose fault it was, the "middle-man" (aka, your son) can't be expected to be his "same old self" like nothing ever happened.  No matter who is at fault, HE is hurt and he's not going to be the same afterwards.  Its unreasonable to ask him to be anything different than just what he is.   

That being said, I hope your relationship with your son can be mended, at least to a livable level.  But I wouldn't expect it until the relationship with your DIL becomes at least civil on both ends. 

BT - I value your posts, but this is bugging me, and I just want to say this as respectfully as I can.  Please tell me you don't speak to others, or your DIL, the way you spoke about her here (ie, her nose hairs, etc.).  I know that here, you are anonymous and are making a joke, but if this were to get back to her, then maybe she has good cause to steer clear of you. I'm sure you don't do that outside of this forum.     

MP- I was thinking along the same lines when I initially read bt's post. I think you said best that a relationship cannot be mended with DS until something is repaired with DIL..

bt-  your son is stuck in the middle between alliances. My Mil often spoke terribly about me to my DH before we were married,  though he wouldn't admit to it at the time. He has just recently told me about some of the things she was criticizing me about to him three years after the fact. And he's also telling me he hates being put in that situation.

I'm hoping that you are not critical of her to him, it only exacerbates the situation. Regardless of your feelings about her, your son will always be your son, you just might want to make sure all conversations with him don't include any discussion of DIL, it might ease the comfort level.

[Pooh]

And that is the huge mistake I made.  When they were just dating, as teenagers, I had some long conversations about how controlling she was, and how she was cutting him off from his friends.  I also got mad when he and I would be somewhere together, shopping for school clothes or such, and she would call 20 times in 2 hours.  I would say things like, "You made find this flattering now, but ten years from now, you are going to be resentful that you can't even go play golf with your friends."  She would come in my home and eat, make a mess and leave it for me to clean up.  I would say, "Honey, if she will not clean up after herself, then it is your responsibility to clean it up.  She is a guest in our home and you are responsible for it."  I truly thought I was helping him, by getting him to think.  It didn't end up helping, it ended up hurting.  He had been going back and telling her everything I was saying.  But was phrasing it as, "You need to clean up your stuff because Mom says I have to if you don't",  and "Mom says you need to stop calling so much when we are out doing stuff."  I can look back now and say that I shouldn't have said anything.  But I can also look back and say, "Yes, I would say it again."  It was truthful and honest, and a Mother giving a teenage Son life lessons.  It was also the way my Son presented it to her.  It was Mom said this....Mom said that.  Was he lying?  No, I truly said those things, but because she was irresponsible and never thinks she does anything wrong, all she heard was his Mom didn't like her.

So danged if you do, danged if you don't.  I will not apologize for trying to equip my Son with knowledge, because I did that with everything.  If he complained about someone at school being a jerk, I would tell him that his life was going to be full of people being jerks and he had to learn not to react.  If he didn't like a rule, I would tell him that life is full of rules and that you didn't have to like all of them, but you had to learn to follow them.  To me, this was no different.  I had a marriage where we were exact opposites, and it didn't work out.  They were exact opposites, and I just wanted him to put some thought into it.  But after they ended up getting married, she used all these things that were said as an excuse not to have a relationship with us.

So after dealing with this for awhile, and with the help of this forum, I have come to realize, even if none of that had happened...something would have eventually with her.  It's just how she is and I can't change that.  And he deals with it by staying away.  That way he doesn't have to be in the middle.  You can only be caught in the middle if there are two other players.  So if you remove one player, no middle.  All I can do is pat myself on the back for being a good Mother, wish him the most happiness in the world, know that even though his actions don't show it, he loves me and hope that someday they grow up and realize life does not revolve around them.

[miss_priss]

Creme - I'm not sure how to say this without sounding......erm, however this will probably sound anyway......

Although I do so enjoy reading your posts, when I have time to, I didn't even read your post this time nor did I respond to it.  I posted in response to BT, not you.  I didn't take your words out of context, nor did they anger me or any of that.  Most of the time, I don't read everyone else's posts, I simply don't have that luxury of time with a full time job and a new baby and hubby to take care of.  Also, I try NOT to get mixed up in whatever everyone else has to say about a post.  Those folks offered THEIR advice based on the original post, and I post mine.....in response to the original poster who asked for advice, not in response to everyone else who posted afterwards.  I may go back later and read a thread, just to see what great advice everyone else shared....but most of the time when I respond to a post for the first time, I read the original post only, and skim through for anything else the "poster" posted after that. 

Fault me for that if you wish, but I can't be faulted for misreading or misinterpreting your post, because I simply didn't even read it.   

 

[cremebrulee]

Creme - I'm not sure how to say this without sounding......erm, however this will probably sound anyway......

Although I do so enjoy reading your posts, when I have time to, I didn't even read your post this time nor did I respond to it.  I posted in response to BT, not you.  I didn't take your words out of context, nor did they anger me or any of that.  Most of the time, I don't read everyone else's posts, I simply don't have that luxury of time with a full time job and a new baby and hubby to take care of.  Also, I try NOT to get mixed up in whatever everyone else has to say about a post.  Those folks offered THEIR advice based on the original post, and I post mine.....in response to the original poster who asked for advice, not in response to everyone else who posted afterwards.  I may go back later and read a thread, just to see what great advice everyone else shared....but most of the time when I respond to a post for the first time, I read the original post only, and skim through for anything else the "poster" posted after that. 

Fault me for that if you wish, but I can't be faulted for misreading or misinterpreting your post, because I simply didn't even read it.   

I'm not faulting you....I was extremely worried I touched a painful nerve and upset you, glad to hear that I didn't....don't ever think I fault anyone here....

I'm trying very hard to remember that, when posting....and to change my wording so that it doesn't offend or hurt anyone's feelings, as I do know how easy it is to take offense if someone was posting about a MIL...so, hope we're good....

thanks for writing back, was holding my breath....

hugs
Creme