Author Topic: Where do I go from here?  (Read 1927 times)

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Sunny1

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Where do I go from here?
« on: September 03, 2010, 08:22:26 AM »
Hi ladies.

My DH and I had finally sought marital counseling and had our first session two nights ago. DH and I have barely spoken to each other since. We've been tip-toeing around each other, avoiding confrontation. I know he's afraid I'll blow up at him, and rightfully so. I'm so angry about so many things. And I know I shouldn't be directing it at in him in that way, but I'm so frustrated with him because he could've put a stop to it all from the very beginning with his mom, but he wouldn't.

A little bit of backround: I had written a little bit of this before but I will restate it. I have a teenage son from a previous marriage,  my ex was abusive and we split when DS was two. I started my life over, went to college, bought a nice little home for DS and I, and we lived comfortably until I remarried. I was a single mom for nine years. I had met my DH at church. He is five years younger than I am, and we had been friends for quite a few years prior to when we began dating, so our relationship was built on a foudation of trust as friends and grew from there. (I had a very difficult time dating and trusting people because of my ex.)

Things were going wonderfully between DH and I, he was truly everything I had ever prayed for in a man. Then we got engaged. I had gotten along with his family prior, and the only questions about it were after DH and I went to FIL's house for dinner and FSIL was there, his parents would later question him about why I was so quiet at the dinner table. My reply was always the same; when FSIL is home visting from her college the entire conversation revolves around gossip about people from her college town, none of whom I even know. So early in our dating, I got the picture that FSIL was the princess and always the center of attention in DH's family, but I didn't really know how dysfunctional it was.

All of the gloves were taken off on the day of what is now known in our house as the"dress incident." Dh and I got engaged and decided we wanted a small wedding. I had dreamed if I ever remarried that I would have a beach wedding. I had already been married once and DH is the kind of guy who never showed up to his own college graduation ceremony, plus, we were paying for it ourselves. So we wanted it small, but his extended family is rather large, and most of them I had known for many years and known better than my own FIL's. My first idea was to drive to Myrtle Beach @ 8-10 hrs away. It would ensure that it would be small and just our immediate family would go, but DH's grandparents probably wouldn't make the trip, and it was important that they be there. So scratch plan A and onto plan B, which ended up being at our church after my initial ideas of a local winery and a local lake were thrown out because FMIL insisted that we had to get married in a church, it wouldn't be proper otherwise.

My twin sis and I went to a bridal shop that FMIL had recommended, and I found my wedding dress. We also found a beatiful bridesmaid (BM) dress that went wonderfully with my dress. It had a little too much cleavage, but could be easily altered. Now a little backround on how the FIL's dressed; MIL lives vicariously thru SIL, who always has her breasts hanging out.

Several weeks later, my sis and I met MIL and SIL at the bridal shop so that my twin and SIL could be measured to order the BM dresses.  It was really busy and it turned out that no one was able to pin the size 10 dress on my size 2 sister. So she was hanging out all over. Sis and I were laughing, and considering MIL had purchased all of SIL's prom gowns at this same shop, and MIL can sew, I still couldn't figure out why she was gently verbally tearing the BM dress apart. She kept imagining all kinds of things wrong with it. I smiled and  we managed thru the measurements, until we went to check out and order the dresses. My sis (who was laid off at the time) ordered and put the down-payment on hers, when suddenly I heard my FMIL behind us sqawking that she'd "had enough"  and she stormed out of the shop, slammimg the entry doors so hard that they slammed into the adjacent foyer wall. I was dumbfounded and humiliated. The cashier was apolegetic and also happened to be a size 10 , so she tried on the BM dress over her clothes to enable SIL to properly see how the dress would fit, but she also began to verbally tear the dress apart. She also said that FMIL complained about the cost.

So we all go home. I explain what happened to FDH and SIL ends up showing up a his house to "talk" things over. FDH leaves us in a room alone together and I ended up getting a half-hour lecture from FSIL about how "special" she is in the family, (she literally announced that to me at least a half dozen times in the one-sided conversation). She kept telling me she couldn't wear anything too tight, too short, low cut, blah, blah....except the entire time she was saying this, her cleavage was hanging waaaay out of her top. She was making absolutely no sense. So I got on the computer that was in the room and started looking up dresses in order to find her an alternate dress., except she just ignore me and kept talking about herself, so I finally said, "look, your not helping here and you're not showing me what you can or will wear,, I've already changed my plans for your family..." And that 's where she blew up and started yelling that I was blaming her family , she refused to hear  the rest of my sentence. FDH came up because of her yelling and immediately told me to leave. FSIL eventually was the one to leave. She called him on the phone and DH sad to her, "(FDW) said she was trying to show you alternate dresses on the computer" at which she screamed so loud into the phone that I could hear her from across the room, "that liar! I just want to punch her in the face!"

So it was now my word against hers. FMIL denied ever causing a scene in the bridal shop. For the next six months I watched every thing I tried to plan go down the tubes. All the while watching MIL and SIL's blatant hypocrisy and lies. They both manipulated him about everything. In their eyes, their family was more important than mine. My feelings about how our wedding should be planned didn't matter to them, because I was already married once.  I watched as my FDH quivered in fear about standing up to his mother, but he wouldn't do it. In the end, I was thrown under the bus for everything and wasted hundreds of dollars on things for our wedding that were never used . My son was not in my wedding, my sis was not in my wedding because in their eyes, if SIL couldn't be in it, then  no one in my family had a right to be in it. I didn't have a bridal shower because I kept giving everyone excuses about why we didn't pin down a wedding date, my church wanted to throw one for me. I kept giving everyone excuses, but the truth is, I was humiliated that my FMIL was manipulating everything. In the end, there was no bouquet, no photographer, no cake...there was nothing except the wedding dress that I had purchased before FIL's tantrums started. FDH wouldn't spend a dime til his mom was smoothed over...we can guess how that went. Everyone that truly blessed our marriage was shoved aside for two people who didn't.

We returned from our honeymoon, to find expensive furniture stuffed into DH's house, gifted from MIL. The same woman who complained about the cost of a BM dress, bought us overpriced furniture that looked a near match to the furniture in her house. DH and I each owned our own houses at the time, so we already had two houses full of furniture. The furniture was returned after DH and I got into an argument over it, one of the few battles that I won.

SIL got engaged about a year later. Everthing that MIL and SIL threw tantrums about for our wedding, they actually did in hers. And yep, you should see all of the cleavage. I didn't go to her wedding. I left the country. DH went, but regretted going.

He had allowed his mom to humiliate us both. I was so understanding in the beginning because I knew that he had never had conflict with them, but he was trained to do as they pleased. He admitted from nearly the beginning how narcissistic and blatantly hypocritcal they were., but he refused to do anything about it. Instead he chose to let them do what they always did, but this time, they trampled on me too. Over time, I'd lost my patience. About a month after SIL's weddding, I kicked him out. That was one year ago. He was back in less than a week, but under the condition that things had to change. MIL and SIL have been "cut out"C, but unfortunately it's too little, too late. The damage has already been done to our relationship. I have no trust or respect left for him. He refused to ever stand up for me when I needed him to.  My walls of not trusting anyone are back up...these were all supposed to be lifelong Christians I was dealing with, and you can't trust them, who can you trust?

Our counseling session reiterated all of the above, with my DH not denying that he should set boundaries with his family early on. Our counselor flat out said, "DW, you have to make a choice to either give him a chance or give up on him.

I'm so upset that I'm back to the untrusting person that I used to be, and it never had to be this way. I feel like I gave him the benefit of the doubt for far too long.I feel bitter, angry and betrayed. I don't know that I can trust him again, it's been a year already. Our entire marriage has been in turmoil since it's beginning stages during our engagement, because of another woman, my MIL.

Please help...how do I ever trust or respect him again?? :'(


cremebrulee

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2010, 09:00:19 AM »
Hi There Sunny

what a sad story....however, you can and will have the wedding you always wanted if you put your mind down to it...when things get better, why don't you go to the beach and renew your vows...just you and him, and who ever else you want to share it with...and exclude whomever....(wink) 


Sunny, yes, your husband should assume responsiblity for your feelings and not theres, however, that is very difficult for some men to do, and he is partically to blame for all of this, but honestly, I believe your anger is misdirected...I truly believe your more angry with yourself for being so agreeable to they're wedding plans....and it's ok....

my thinking is, give it time....talk to him, nicely, tell him your sorry this happened between the two of you and you want to start over....and discuss the issue without getting all upset....don't bring up the past anymore...start today, today is a brand new beginning....let it go, it's over and done with, nothing more to do about it....however, change the future...don't hold grudges and try and listen to each others feelings.  Do you know the greatest reason for people getting divorce is not infidelity, but irreconcilable differences, which is a legal way of saying, they couldn't communicate without getting all wrapped up in insecure feelings....

If your hubby tells you...you did something wrong, it's not that he's saying you were wrong, he's saying, what you did, hurt my feelings....and visa versa, you both have to learn, how to listen to each other and successfully communicate your feelings to each other....

No, you didn't get the wedding you wanted, but remember, you allowed them to make decissions for you instead of saying flat out "NO".  You feel it was his responsiblity to say no, b/c you were afraid if you did, they wouldn't like you, well, guess what....you gave them what they wanted and did it make things any better? 

Sunny, marriage is and always will be a work in progress....trust must be earned, but in the same time, trust also must be practiced....your hubby will never be able to live up to your expectations and ideas of what you believe marriage should be, and you will never be able to live up to the expectations and ideas of what his idea of marriage should be.  Don't you see. that is the main reason why people divorce...because each of us, individually have a whole different idea of what marriage is like, whose job is what and so forth....but in all actuallity no one has a job...marriage now becomes a threashold to a whole new way of life and doing things...it's like stepping off a plank, you either sink or swim...and in order to swim, and go the distance, you both have to really work at it....

It's no one else's job to make you happy, and no one else's job to make him happy....however, when things happen, that upsets the other one, you must discuss it...and not let things go until they build and build and simmer and boil, and then one day explode. 

Don't talk to each other, listen to each other, and communicate....your trying to tell him how you feel, and he's taking it as a personal attack against his character, instead of realizing, your feelings were hurt by his actions....it doesn't make you right and him wrong, or visa versa, but your persona is hurt by what occurred....and he is not getting it, and neither are you....

I would give it time...work together, your a team....you need to work to strive and compromise....and he needs to understand, he's a grown adult now, and your his first prioity....so, take a deep breath....be charming, a lady, and love him....and when the time is right, discuss feelings with each other and don't allow it to become a war....in the meantime, start to think about re-doing your vows, and this time, do it your way, but make certain, he wants it to....but under no circumstances say yes, to anyone, if it's going to leave you with regrets....learn to say no...not to hubby, but to people who are on the outside.  This is your life, and yours only, you only get one chance at it and life is short, so stop trying to live up to the expectations of others....or say yes just to appease someone else....learn from this, let it give you strength and insight....and go forward, better for it....let go of what wasn't, and be thankful for what is....

you can change this and him, but it's going to take a lot of work....be patient, and don't hold onto things that are in the past....go foreward and learn how to reach him with understanding....it's very difficult for some to break away from families that are this controlling, he was conditioned his entire childhood by these people...it's not easy to break that conditioning....he didn't side with them to go against you, he tried to do the best he could to make peace....it's very very hard for a man in the middle like that...and while I totally agree with you, and you are right, you have to recondition him....he has to want to....give him time, give counseling time, and when you both are away from the counselor, don't hold grudges....be loving and supportive....realize, nothing will bring this back....but you can change the future....you can, if you want to bad enough....don't fight...love, be willing to understand and practice patience.

Love isn't only loving someone when it's easy to love them...love is also loving someone when it's very difficult to do. 

Does any of this make any sense?



« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 09:05:56 AM by cremebrulee »

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2010, 09:11:15 AM »
I don't know. My heart goes out to you. Your IL's sound like selfish people. The only thing I can relate it to is my experience with my selfish, N, SM. After being the target of some heinous behavior on her part I finally stopped trusting her and my DF as well. Although I call every now and then, I keep it light and casual. That's how I deal with DS & DIL, too. No ammunition. I don't see trust being rebuilt with them since they don't seem to have remorse. If your DH could express his regret and remorse, that might be a start. Take care.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 09:39:34 AM »
Creme, you are correct, I am angry with myself. But it's not for letting them have their way with our wedding. I was trying to the breaks on their behavior the whole time, but DH kept insisting that his family was sooo important to him, and would never hurt him. I did tell them no, but DH argued in their defense. I'm angry at myself for not calling the entire thing off, I kept telling him right off the bat that I wasn't living my life second to his lying hypocritical mother.

And please don't take this wrong, but I'm tired of everyone telling me to be the one to apologize and forgive. That's part of how this mess ended up so deep. Our pastor, who had had previous experience with my MIL's temper tantrums, so much so that my MIL had left our church because she wasn't getting her way, had dealt with her yet said that we should apologize to her and forgive her, but all that ended up getting us was manipulated. I'm sure it made us weak and easy prey in her eyes because she has never stopped to look at herself.

And I know I haven't been perfect in this whole mess either, but after being lied to and about to the point of being backed in a corner, I started lashing out and not being so nice back to them...I mean enough is enough.

And I also understand the whole sink or swim analogy. I've been talking to someone for over a year now. DH has not put that kind of an effort in until, once again, I insisted we should both be in counseling because it involves us both. To him, he cut his family out, so that was his one big effort. I feel that all along that I have been the one who has had to compromise, and he's known all along how I've felt, but he didn't compromise til it had to be to the extreme of cutting his family out. But by then, it didn't matter, and he knows it. We can't repair the damage that was caused by them. DH is the one who did everything to appease them, he and I fought about it the whole time. I said "no"


BTW, we had a vow renewal ceremony on the carribean beach during our honeymoon just so we could have pictures. It was exactly as I dreamed except all of the people I loved weren't there to celebrate. By the end of the wedding planning fiasco, I had said we should just elope, because by then everything was down the tubes anyway and the only thing I wanted was to marry him and not have his mom or his sis present...but I didn't even get that.

So letting go is one thing, learning to trust and respect him again is another. And yes, I'm angry at him, myself and his mom.

I keep telling him that if hindsight were 20/20, I would have called it off when I had that gut feeling that I should have. I'd rather be alone than second to his mother.

cremebrulee

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 10:59:45 AM »
Creme, you are correct, I am angry with myself. But it's not for letting them have their way with our wedding. I was trying to the breaks on their behavior the whole time, but DH kept insisting that his family was sooo important to him, and would never hurt him. I did tell them no, but DH argued in their defense. I'm angry at myself for not calling the entire thing off, I kept telling him right off the bat that I wasn't living my life second to his lying hypocritical mother.

And please don't take this wrong, but I'm tired of everyone telling me to be the one to apologize and forgive. That's part of how this mess ended up so deep. Our pastor, who had had previous experience with my MIL's temper tantrums, so much so that my MIL had left our church because she wasn't getting her way, had dealt with her yet said that we should apologize to her and forgive her, but all that ended up getting us was manipulated. I'm sure it made us weak and easy prey in her eyes because she has never stopped to look at herself.

And I know I haven't been perfect in this whole mess either, but after being lied to and about to the point of being backed in a corner, I started lashing out and not being so nice back to them...I mean enough is enough.

And I also understand the whole sink or swim analogy. I've been talking to someone for over a year now. DH has not put that kind of an effort in until, once again, I insisted we should both be in counseling because it involves us both. To him, he cut his family out, so that was his one big effort. I feel that all along that I have been the one who has had to compromise, and he's known all along how I've felt, but he didn't compromise til it had to be to the extreme of cutting his family out. But by then, it didn't matter, and he knows it. We can't repair the damage that was caused by them. DH is the one who did everything to appease them, he and I fought about it the whole time. I said "no"


BTW, we had a vow renewal ceremony on the carribean beach during our honeymoon just so we could have pictures. It was exactly as I dreamed except all of the people I loved weren't there to celebrate. By the end of the wedding planning fiasco, I had said we should just elope, because by then everything was down the tubes anyway and the only thing I wanted was to marry him and not have his mom or his sis present...but I didn't even get that.

So letting go is one thing, learning to trust and respect him again is another. And yes, I'm angry at him, myself and his mom.

I keep telling him that if hindsight were 20/20, I would have called it off when I had that gut feeling that I should have. I'd rather be alone than second to his mother.

so where do we go from here?  What is one thing that you would change in your husband if you could....

and please know, I don't think you should apologize for how you feel or what he did, but I do think starting at, "I'm so sorry this is happening to us", is a start....

ok, calm down if you can.....and give counseling a chance, in the meantime, try and be civil to each other along with patience....there is nothing else at this point I can tell you to do...and please believe me, I'm not siding with him....

but try to let go of the anger and work from there....I know your angry and you have every right to be....

and your right, you should have said no in the very beginning and not married him if he did that to you....but you did....so, now, what are you going to do, run from this marriage, or stick it out for a while and maybe just maybe, things will work out.....marriage is very very hard....and inlaws interferring doesn't make it any easier....
however, your husband is an adult and should be acting as such....I can see and understand why he does what he does, but it doesn't make it right, and I hope you understand that....s

for now...lets just talk, come back in and we're here to support you, however, I just don't fel at this point in time, it's time to thow in the towel...you may be sorry down the road....I don't know?  It's really really tough when your husband doesn't support you....

but keep trying....if you can....

hugs,
Creme

miss_priss

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 11:44:35 AM »
Hi Sunny1 - How similar our situations are, I can certainly relate.  Dh and I cut off his mother just a few months ago, after 3 years of her wreaking absolute havoc on our relationship.  To this day I am amazed that we made it through it intact, we are also in counseling trying to clean up the damage.  I also am angry at him, it's been months and I still boil over it from time to time.  I resent him because he refused to acknowledge the destruction his mother's very presence brought into our home, for not standing up for me or himself to her, for making me feel like it was all my fault every time she pitched a tantrum or threw a fit because I didn't handle her the way he thought I should have (he takes the path of least resistance).  I stood up for myself and my daughter, finally, because I no longer trusted him to do so and I was tired of apologizing, tired of feeling like a doormat, and tired of her sucking the life out of us and our marriage. 

DH and I have learned through counseling that anger is a short term emotion.  The long-term version is resentment , and it's uglier and far harder to work through and get past.  Resentment is usually accompanied by blame, mistrust, indifference, sadness, lack of passion, depression...and the worst piece:  regret.  So I know where you are with all of this, I am struggling with it too.  Why didn't I just leave when my gut told me to?  How can I ever trust him again?  Will I ever feel the way I used to about him?  Is it too late to save it?  Is it even worth saving now?

The first few sessions of counseling were very....erm, awkward.  Our very first session, our counselor told me the nearly exact same thing:  "You're at a crossroads here, you either have to dedicate yourself to rebuilding the marriage or you can let it go."  Then, we did an exercise where we simply looked at one another, in the eyes, for 3 minutes.  No talking, absolute silence.  I lasted about 1 minute before I had tears pouring down my face like a waterfall, but the therapist kept whispering "work through it...work through it...work through it" until the 3 minutes were up.  DH told me later that it was the first time he could feel how truly hurt I was.  After the exercise, the counselor asked us to each use one word to describe how we felt during the three minutes.  Mine was "angry" his was "ashamed." 

Like you, we didn't really communicate for days, and there was even less fun and intimacy.  It's shaky, unstable and unfamiliar ground that you feel like could crumble under your feet at any time.  But stick with it, your marriage IS worth saving.  It's been months, and DH are nowhere near "healed" over this, but we have a mutual dedication to work through it. 

DH and I had a real breaking point a couple weeks ago when we hit our knees together, held hands, and prayed together and cried out to God for strength and forgiveness to help us save the unity He had created.  It was the first time in months, we'd been emotionally "intimate."  I know not everyone prays, but it really helped us break ground.

I'm sending you lots of hugs and wishing you the best outcome of this.  And if you'd ever like to discuss it off the forum, please do feel free to send me a message. 

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 11:58:00 AM »

so where do we go from here?  What is one thing that you would change in your husband if you could...

for now...lets just talk, come back in and we're here to support you, however, I just don't fel at this point in time, it's time to thow in the towel...you may be sorry down the road....I don't know?  It's really really tough when your husband doesn't support you....

[/quote]

Creme, I genuinely appreciate the support, and I know I'm just needing to work thru this, it just can't all be worked thru and talked thru with him. I keep talking to the same Christian counselors that were shoving"forgive MIL, and apologize to MIL" down my throat, that I know I'm angry, bitter and resentful at basically everyone around me at this point...our new marriage counselor is someone different.

I guess, part of my anger is drawn at the fact that so much of "me" needs fixing that didn't need it before.  You asked if there is one thing I could change about my DH, what would it be? But sadly, he's now the man that I needed him to be several years ago. He never defended or protected me from his family, as a matter of fact, I felt like he threw me to the dogs because he would often treat me so inferior after he spent time with them in my absence. He would subtly belitttle me, but I knew all along that it was his mom speaking thru him. After he finally read the book Toxic- in Laws and the lightbulb came on to him, that everything I had said she was doing was in this book word-for-word. He finally cut them out. It took him so long to see the dysfunction, but eventually  he did and became the man I knew he was, but unfortunatly the process changed me too.

I used to always have a positive attitude. People would tell me that I my could always find the best in anyone. I was confident, idependent and self-assured. But now I'm just an angry, bitter resentful person who misses the "me" that I used to be. I feel like I gave up everything that I am in order to build him up, and I'm exhausted. Now that he's here to finally defend and protect me, there is nothing left to defend or protect me from, and I don't need him to anyway. My own defensive walls are up, and I've shut him out.

cremebrulee

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 12:35:05 PM »
Sunny/Miss Priss, I'm in absolute tears reading you both...
My son and DIL told me, when this first happened between us, they went to counseling...she felt the very same way you both did...and it was all miscommunications...on both of our parts...our insecurities...both thinking we hated each other...I know our situation is totally different, but after reading the pain you both have experienced because of this, it humbles me...makes me feel embarrassed and sad that I was instrumental in causing someone else this kind of pain. 

Oh I was in pain to, however, if only I would have known then, what I know now? 

I'm so very sorry to both of you...
Miss Priss you always serve up such good advice...and I'm so glad you were able to work thru it...

Sunny, I don't know what to say except I'm so very sorry, I know your dispair and grief...and the feelings your going thru...my now ex was the same way with his mother...they were Italian and very controlling....I just hate to see something so precious be so torn apart and can't help but think about what the minister says during the ceremony...."What God has joined together, let no man turn asunder".....

Sunny, your in my thoughts and prayers...along with Miss Priss....and I hope you can work your way to a similar ending....a new beginning...

resentment is a very bad poison...it stings for a long time....

Hugs to you both and I'm very sorry for what you've had to endure, along with many other women here....

creme

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 03:31:07 PM »
Miss priss, Thank you-Thank you-Thank you ...it's so encouraging to hear that this can all get better. It does sound as though we are in very similar boats. Please keep me posted as to how you are doing and coping with it all, as it also seems you're several steps ahead of me. I'm also glad to hear that you pray. I think my faith has wavered in the aftermath of the foul advice we recieved, but even more so because of MIL's version of Christianity. Iknow that I need to return to where I knew I stood on solid ground with my savior.

And Miss Priss, I happen to agree with Creme...you do always seem to offer up such good advice.

Creme, my DH and I once told my MIL that our entire pre-marital counseling ended up being about her and her involvment in our relationship, MIL's response was a laugh. I think she rather proud of herself.  What a wise and humble woman you are. I think I would have difficulty not respecting you or your advice because you seem to be able to view any situation from many angles. I truly appreciate your words.


Thank you :)

GreatWhiteNorth

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 04:41:49 PM »
I would say that you do your best to rebuild it, to work together to form a strong husband/ wife relationship and on things like communication skills and how to set boundaries and work through these issues. I know it is not easy, but I don't believe marriage is suppose to be easy, it is work.

My husband betrayed me alot due to MIL as well, putting her first before our marriage.

So I know betrayal..............believe me..........

But we have worked through it and with alot of counselling both of us had not been set up well by our parents and came into the marriage with ill formed tools. My husband stands by me now. He slips here and there but with really minor things now. He now protects me from MIL. It took alot of work though and moving past the resentment and I don't regret staying in the marriage, it has changed to where we are husband and wife now instead of to my husband cleaving to her instead.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 05:36:07 AM by GreatWhiteNorth »

cremebrulee

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2010, 05:48:48 AM »
Quote
Sunny1

Creme, my DH and I once told my MIL that our entire pre-marital counseling ended up being about her and her involvment in our relationship, MIL's response was a laugh. I think she rather proud of herself.  What a wise and humble woman you are. I think I would have difficulty not respecting you or your advice because you seem to be able to view any situation from many angles. I truly appreciate your words.


Thank you Sunny....

Sunny, have things gotten any better, has there been a slight inprovement of any kind since you told her that? 

I'd like to offer something else, if I may...my son had a best friend who spent more time in our home then his own.  Great kid...however, when ever we'd talk about anything sad, or something horrible that happened to someone, he'd laugh or snicker.  It would really upset me, big time, to the point, I said something to my husband about it once...like I was going to call him on it sometime....and my husband said, "Sometimes people react to situations differently...it might be a nervous reaction and he doesn't even realize he's doing it so go easy on him, however, he should be made aware of it". 

I am probably wrong, however, do you think this might be why she laughed, when inside, it was really killing her to know this?  Just a thought?  That's why I asked if there has been a change....any mother that wants a good life for her son, wants him to be happy, would really cringe at the thought of her being a great reason for they're problems....no matter how much my DIL and I didn't get along, I would never ever wish that they would seperate, unless she was mentally or physically abusive.  And even then, I'd suggest long term counseling...

Creme





[/quote]

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 06:07:32 AM »
Quote
Sunny1

I'd like to offer something else, if I may...my son had a best friend who spent more time in our home then his own.  Great kid...however, when ever we'd talk about anything sad, or something horrible that happened to someone, he'd laugh or snicker.  It would really upset me, big time, to the point, I said something to my husband about it once...like I was going to call him on it sometime....and my husband said, "Sometimes people react to situations differently...it might be a nervous reaction and he doesn't even realize he's doing it so go easy on him, however, he should be made aware of it". 

I am probably wrong, however, do you think this might be why she laughed, when inside, it was really killing her to know this?  Just a thought?  That's why I asked if there has been a change....any mother that wants a good life for her son, wants him to be happy, would really cringe at the thought of her being a great reason for they're problems....no matter how much my DIL and I didn't get along, I would never ever wish that they would seperate, unless she was mentally or physically abusive.  And even then, I'd suggest long term counseling...

Creme






Creme, I'll clarify a little. Our premarital counselor was our pastor. The same pastor that MIL had a blow-out with several years prior to this because our little church was growing and decided to also hire a youth pastor. Prior to hiring him, MIL had been practically running the youth department....Now hold on to your britches, 'cause this is all going to start to sound familiar... ::) The youth pastor is my age...young blood with young ideas, and MIL hated them all; she hated having to let go of the control she had of the youth and since she didn't get her way, I heard things got rather ugly and she stormed out...Oh, and BTW, somehow in all of this, DH, had no idea it ever happened and at the time he still lived at home?? Yep, I'm scratching my head too, I can't begin to imagine what she told everyone. Anyway, my son was still in the younger classes, so other than the fact that we hired a youth pastor for the middle school and high schoolers,  I didn't know either until we started our pre-marital counseling...plus I work in the medical field and work every other weekend so I only make it to church on the opposite weeks.

So I think her laugh was actually pride about the fact that our counseling had to be about her, and it being the same man she argued with before, so at the time it actually went kind of like this from her; "Hahahahha,(Pastor), counseling you about me?hahaha!"

And Creme, I truly wish it were different but I think my MIL is the most genuinely narcissistic person I have ever met. Unlike your thoughts about a mother geniunly wanting happiness for her son, my MIL only seems to want both herself and her daughter to be happy and at the expense of everyone else...they don't care who they mistreat.

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2010, 06:36:42 AM »
Oh and round two of our marriage counseling:

Our first time there, several weeks ago, basically consisted of us telling the counselor where we were in our relationship, and ended with her explaining to me that I needed to come to a decision of whether or not I was willing and able to forgive my husband and try to repair our marriage.

Week two: started with her asking how each of our weeks went, what we did to cope, etc., Many awkward silences ensued, and she then began asking about what each of us wanted from our split. My response was, "How is talking about how we would amicably split up going to be therapeutic for our marriage?"...more awkward silence...and maybe I should have asked her all of this before, but I began asking her about her credentials as a counselor, and if she knew what we were actually there for...She'd been a counselor for 16 years and named at least 8-10 different places she'd worked in that time...doesn't seem to hold a job long...not a good quality in a marriage counselor...ugh. :-\

Needless to say, we left with her saying she couldn't help us...could all of this seriously get any more bizarre???   ???

cremebrulee

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 08:19:24 AM »
Quote
Sunny1

I'd like to offer something else, if I may...my son had a best friend who spent more time in our home then his own.  Great kid...however, when ever we'd talk about anything sad, or something horrible that happened to someone, he'd laugh or snicker.  It would really upset me, big time, to the point, I said something to my husband about it once...like I was going to call him on it sometime....and my husband said, "Sometimes people react to situations differently...it might be a nervous reaction and he doesn't even realize he's doing it so go easy on him, however, he should be made aware of it". 

I am probably wrong, however, do you think this might be why she laughed, when inside, it was really killing her to know this?  Just a thought?  That's why I asked if there has been a change....any mother that wants a good life for her son, wants him to be happy, would really cringe at the thought of her being a great reason for they're problems....no matter how much my DIL and I didn't get along, I would never ever wish that they would seperate, unless she was mentally or physically abusive.  And even then, I'd suggest long term counseling...

Creme






Creme, I'll clarify a little. Our premarital counselor was our pastor. The same pastor that MIL had a blow-out with several years prior to this because our little church was growing and decided to also hire a youth pastor. Prior to hiring him, MIL had been practically running the youth department....Now hold on to your britches, 'cause this is all going to start to sound familiar... ::) The youth pastor is my age...young blood with young ideas, and MIL hated them all; she hated having to let go of the control she had of the youth and since she didn't get her way, I heard things got rather ugly and she stormed out...Oh, and BTW, somehow in all of this, DH, had no idea it ever happened and at the time he still lived at home?? Yep, I'm scratching my head too, I can't begin to imagine what she told everyone. Anyway, my son was still in the younger classes, so other than the fact that we hired a youth pastor for the middle school and high schoolers,  I didn't know either until we started our pre-marital counseling...plus I work in the medical field and work every other weekend so I only make it to church on the opposite weeks.

So I think her laugh was actually pride about the fact that our counseling had to be about her, and it being the same man she argued with before, so at the time it actually went kind of like this from her; "Hahahahha,(Pastor), counseling you about me?hahaha!"

And Creme, I truly wish it were different but I think my MIL is the most genuinely narcissistic person I have ever met. Unlike your thoughts about a mother geniunly wanting happiness for her son, my MIL only seems to want both herself and her daughter to be happy and at the expense of everyone else...they don't care who they mistreat.

No no, Sunny, I believe you, absolutely believe you, you know her better then I surely do....but as you said, I was really hoping, it wasn't as you saw it.....and I'm so sorry you felt like you had to explain....you don't....not unless you want to....I never want anyone to feel that they have to defend they're feelings...b/c I'm not personally involved, and I don't know everything theree is to know, just throwing out other options to look at....only if the poster may think it relates to they're experience...., geeze Sunny, I do hope you understand that the way I mean it....it's sometimes so hard for me, to relate my thoughts in writing....and you can't see my face and we don't really know each other....therefore, it makes it tougher....

Funny, how when I get an email from someone I know personally, I can read it and understand fully what they mean, can even hear they're voice and they're facial expressions, but trying to correspond like this takes a talent I lack and b/c I'm cut and dry, adds strikes against me....so, thanks for letting me know and hope you understand this reply.

Also Sunny, I'm so sorry your going thru this...as everyone here knows, the pain and disruption it causes in so many lives is sometimes to difficult to bear.....

Sunny, when my husband and I were having problems, we went to 3 different counselors, and I allowed him to choose the counselors, b/c I knew, if he didn't and they sided with me and told him he was wrong, he'd complain that they were prejudice.  One we went to, would tell me one thing when I went in, and then tell him another, and when I called him on it, he got really embarrassed and said he couldn't help us....so the first and the third said right out to him that he was definately running around....and he needed to tell the truth, so that we could get on with the healing process and figuring out what we were going to do....so I left, it was futile, you can't fix a problem unless you admit you have one. 

I'm sending you thoughts and prayers for the future, that this can be worked out as you wish it to be. 

Hugs and love
Creme

« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 08:23:57 AM by cremebrulee »

Sunny1

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Re: Where do I go from here?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2010, 10:38:22 AM »
Creme...trust me...I understand you more than you're giving me credit for.  ;) So yep, I also got it when you were explaining the reactions of your sons friend. I know it was wishful thinking on your part, in that maybe my MIL is OK, but just a little odd on her reactions. I only clarified to say that she most definitely is an outright  dysfunctional person...and maybe a little part of me said it as an opportunity to slam her, just because it makes me feel better at the moment.  :) (Sarcasm intended...nah, maybe not...I really just wanted to slam her)   ;D

I'm a nurse. I've found that over the years I have been able to keep a smile on my face and just plug away at the task at hand regardless of whatever precarious situation I'm in. Ironically, I kinda think I may be a little more like your sons friend, not to the extreme that I laugh or snicker at sad news all of the time, though I know I have done that too. Normally, I just become blank without emotional response on my outward appearance even though I am sincerely empathetic on the inside. I hold it all in...yep, I know that's unhealthy too. And yes, people have brought it to my attention before, that my lack of emotion has bothered them. I'm sure a psychologist will say it's some defensive wall of response that I have, due to blah, blah, blah in my past...and I would never deny that either. I also tend to be brutally honest, blunt and straight to the point, which is part of the reason I keep my mouth shut at sad times too, I'm afraid of putting my foot in it....I know I have to pull my thoughts in and think about what I'm going to say at times so as not to offend anyone. I can be a little sarcastic too.   :-[ I never mean it to offend anyone though at times I do. I apologize if I've done that, creme.

Funny that this was brought up like this. Dealing with DH's family has been really difficult and has really tried my patience with how I respond to things. For me, it's the sad situations that I am unresponsive, but most others the blunt part of me will come out. I was quiet in the beginning, pointing things out to DH about his family's hypocrisy and lies but it ended up being so bad that their narcissism and extent of hypocrisy was so blatant it would have put a politician to shame. It was so bad that there was no way DH could deny it, but yet he defended it, which meant he was not defending me. To me, it appeared almost cult-like. How else could someone defend something that is soblatantly wrong unless they've been brainwashed??? So yep, in this case I call a horse, a horse....or in other words, I think his family is near cultish, they're so dysfunctional. But DH is the other extreme as opposed to me. He's so used to lies and the little shell he was kept in, he doesn't know how to handle the truth. His family often gives half-truths or manipulates people. His mom and sister are the people that books like Toxic In-Laws and  Emotional Blackmail are written about. ....DH and I have had a lot of talks about our different ways of communicating.

I agree, it is sooo much easier to read into things when you personally know who has written them, because you would know all of their demeanors. Everything I've written today, I have written with a genuine smile on my face...even the situation with the counselor because I am a week removed from it and can laugh about it...I mean really..what else can I do about it at this point anyway? I might as well have a good laugh about something.  :P

Thanks, it's reassuring to hear that it's not a bad thing to strike out with our first attempt at finding a counselor. Oddly, my DH said he thought I should be happy because the counselor agreed that he messed up by never standing up for me, and basically everything else. But I don't need to hear that anyone agrees with me (especially if I'm paying them for honest advice and help), even DH agrees he messed up...I just need to know how to fix it and help our relationship move on from here, so I know a lot of what I'm doing here is just venting because I'm so frustrated.

So let's hope and pray that counselor #2 can handle DH and I. *sarcastic chuckle*   ;)

« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 11:03:48 AM by Sunny1 »