Author Topic: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know  (Read 1359 times)

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cremebrulee

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For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« on: August 12, 2010, 07:09:06 AM »
Hi Kathleen

I thought your post to me, would be a very good topic to discuss...so, I've started this thread for discussion...


I believe the media for years now, has used scare tactics about smoking, when #1.  When you reach the age of 55 you are living on borrowed time, you can die from anything...heart disease, stroke, cancers, and so so many other diseases that you never hear about, like Parkinson's, Diabetes....etc.  there are twice as many people in the world now, then ever before, and less people smoking then ever before.  They won't tell you that but it's true. 

I saw once, how people are conditioned through images....only takes a few minutes, however, all they have to do on a regular basis is throw up images on the TV with a few words and over time, it conditions people to believe...it's subliminal conditioning...someone told me once, they were walking through a mall, and realized, over the malls loudspeakers came the words, "smoking is bad for you"....this is en grained into our physiological minds....without even realizing it...that is one of the reasons why kids have less control, less tolerance, and own big mouths, and little respect for others, b/c TV shows tell them it's OK to be like that....in the bible, it says somewhere, we laugh at what we should find immoral and corrupt...and it's so true, we see the humor in those shows rather then what those shows are really telling our kids....

So, for years now, TV stresses, studies show, however, when ever the news media reports studies show, no one asks, "What studies, who Studied that and for how long"?  They just simply make a claim. 

Yes, smoking is bad for you...however, I'm going to be 62 years old...and if I die of cancer, no one can prove it came from smoking, my medical history is one of cancer....back to my grandmother....or if I die of heart disease, no one can prove it...I'm at that age, where anytime, I could kick off....LOL...sorry, I don't mean to make a joke of it.....but it's true, I can....so, the longer I live, the less chance I have of a longer life....but, we American's have been conditioned to believe everything they tell us...and that stuff about 2nd hand smoke? 

My God....when we were kids, we used to walk down the street while the mosquito truck was going by, spraying insecticides to kill the mosquito's...we drink water around here that our community leaders have finally admitted, there is arsenic in it???????  I was working construction, it was autumn and we were in the mountains, where tons and tons of houses are being built, however, there are no septic systems available up there, it's all well weather...and from a stream I saw flowing, were suds....

Up there in the mountains are many many lakes...the lakes are ridden with algae...so, there are tons of chemical companies who come in and treat the lakes, b/c people want clean lakes to walk by and swim in....however, everytime the chemical companies came to our lake to treat it, it kills barrels of fish, and they had to come back and pick up those fish in 55 gallon drums...but told us the lake was ok to swim in 3 days after the treatments?????  The chemical companies were mostly owned by the Mafia....si everyone turned they're heads, b/c there was a lot of money to be made and yes, people were paid off to ignore what was going on....We have a friend who is a chemical research biologist....and he told us...no one, but no one to this day, can tell us, how long those chemicals, or any chemical stays in the ground. 

Take for instance this oil spill, biggest in history, right?  Did you know they used dangerous chemicals they "thought" would somehow dissipate the oil in the ocean?  I mean, I couldn't believe it...they spewed these chemicals all over that oil, in the ocean...which will infest the fish...may not kill them, but will actually get into the fish and cause residue, and may even change they're chemistry and looks over a long period of time.

How bout Radon?  Around here, it's loaded with Radon and Radon is in our homes, and there is nothing but nothing anyone can do about it...

Radon Fact Sheet
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) and the Surgeon General's Office have estimated that as many as 20,000 lung cancer deaths are caused each year by radon. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer. Radon-induced lung cancer costs the United States over $2 billion dollars per year in both direct and indirect health care costs. (Based on National Cancer Institute statistics of 14,400 annual radon lung cancer deaths - Oster, Colditz & Kelley, 1984)

According to the US EPA, nearly 1 in 3 homes checked in seven states and on three Indian lands had screening levels over 4 pCi/L, the EPA's recommended action level for radon exposure.

The alpha radiation emitted by radon is the same alpha radiation emitted by other alpha generating radiation sources such as plutonium.

A family whose home has radon levels of 4 pCi/l is exposed to approximately 35 times as much radiation as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission would allow if that family was standing next to the fence of a radioactive waste site. (25 mrem limit, 800 mrem exposure)

An elementary school student that spends 8 hours per day and 180 days per year in a classroom with 4 pCi/l of radon will receive nearly 10 times as much radiation as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission allows at the edge of a nuclear power plant.(25 mrem limit, 200 mrem exposure)

Most U.S. EPA lifetime safety standards for carcinogens are established based on a 1 in 100,000 risk of death. Most scientists agree that the risk of death for radon at 4 pCi/l is approximately 1 in 100. At the 4 pCi/l EPA action guideline level, radon carries approximately 1000 times the risk of death as any other EPA carcinogen. It is important to note that the action level is not a safe level, as there are no "safe" levels of radon gas.

I was watching a show on TV once, a documentary about all the nuclear tests they did back in the 1040's.  Tghey knew nothing about radiation, or what detrimental effects setting off those bombs would do.  When those bombs were set off, for testing...at the time, Truman was President and the tests were called the Manhattan Project....no one, at that time, cared what the effects would bring, they're only concern was we were in a race with Hitler to create the ultimate weapon. 

When they set off those bombs, the fallout from those bombs were carried all over the world by weather conditions...and settled into the ground...our livestock ate that grass....we ate the cows, now we're even eating fish that are polluted.

My cousin's daughter worked in DE at a hospital.   That year alone, there were 3 chemical leaks from surrounding factories...big ones...why, b/c our instructure is so badly in need of repair, and we don't have the money to fix it...our CEO's would rather reap the benefits then fix things...along with all those Government federally funded inspections that are supposed to catch those problems.  but they don't.  My cousin's daughter said, in a few more years, those kids are going to start to glow...she, and her husband moved back home b/c of that....
Now, This is just one example...think about those leaks that have occurred over the past 30 years...all those chemicals in the ground for years and years, in your lungs, in your children because chemicals manifest into our genes...and all those chemicals leaching into the ground, our water tables...everything, oh, it goes on and on...

I don't know if you've read me much, but if you do, you constantly see me saying "what we do, think and feel"  effects the lives of others...and people don't think about that, all they they about is instant gratification, "I want it now" and to heck with tomorrow.  Believe it or not, our country is being run that way, however, they don't want you or me to know it....it's all about money...big money...and oddly, the big huge corporations are the ones really running this country.

They use chemicals to treat water, chemicals to preserve food, which actually proved to grow breasts on children boys...

I challenge anyone to walk into a children's hospital and see all these thousands of kids with so many diseases that will eventually take them, including cancer....

So, there is much more, however, whenever I hear that someone passed away, and the first thing people ask is, "Did they smoke"....it really to me, shows how uninformed and conditioned they really are. 

#1.  The person was in that age bracket where they were now a candidate to have something happen...what was that person's medical history?  Did his parents have what he died from in they're genes...for instance, heart disease?  This subject always makes me cringe, when I hear of people trying to sue companies for the medications they were taking...and by the way, when you get to be my age, or even younger, it is necessary to take medications sometimes, which are chemicals....so, you either take them, or you suffer from whatever, there really isn't much choice....but...you cannot prove that anyone died from that medication, unless your allergy prone to one of it's compounds, or, a lot of other people are dying who are not age 50 and up...and studies take years....to perform....to conclude a decisive outcome.

#2.  Chemicals are detrimental to life long term...and the body over generations does build up tolerances, however, chemicals are loaded with cancer causing agents...did anyone see the movie....

#3.  Another program I watched many years ago...dictated the entire effect of nuclear waste on human life....we are building more and more nuclear plants....have we already forgotten about the Chernoble disaster/not accident, but disaster?  Do any of us even begin to realize how bad that was, how widespread that was?  How far the fall out was distributed over the world?  There is no safe level of radiation, and don't ever let anyone ever tell you differently....

To give you an idea....look at how many people have gotten sick and already died, from ground zero....all that dusk and debris, that the rescue workers inhaled.

Oh, here's another one....pressure treated lumber.....a biggy....did you know why they call it pressure treated lumber...well, b/c it's loaded with insecticide's and chemicals to make it last longer....did you also know, that they tell you to never burn it?  Why, b/c you'll breath all that stuff in....now think about all the homes just in the U.S. that have decks....and think about all that insecticide being washed into the ground every time it rains...it's leaching into our water supply for years...

Oh, there is so much more, I haven't even began to touch on these important facts that most people don't even realize....why?  Well, all the big money making people who make these products don't want you to know about it....and now to add insult to injury, our products are being made overseas, b/c it's cheaper and the inspections are not nearly as strict as ours here in the states...do you realize, that everytime you hear about a recall b/c of seminala, it's pretty much a given, that, that particular product was made in another country...where people are defecating in the fields or streets....yes, that sounds horrible, but it's true...my girlfriends son must travel to India, and the last time he was there on business, he became so ill, he had to be hospitalized, due to the unclean conditions, people actually squat in the street and eliminate....and in our company, where I work, every once in a while, someone does that on the bathroom floor b/c they are new here and don't know any better...

We are so stupid, b/c they talk about terrorism....well what better way to kill us, then to sabotage our foods and I'm surprised it hasn't been done already....The Taliban keep threatening a huge attack on American's....

But, unfortunately, we live in our little worlds, these little invisible bubbles, that we create for ourselves...we are less informed then were our parents...in today's world of modern technology....you notice all those reality shows on TV....which are conditioning people to fight each other, rather then work together as a team.....even the Bachelor...how sick?  There is no way, I don't care how good looking the guy is, I would compete with something like that, or even want someone like that?  We have been conditioned over the past 15 years now, with fear...that smoking causes cancer, smoking kills...and we believe it....with they're statement, "Studies Show"....what studies?  It takes years to conclude studies....years??????

But think about how uninformed we are, think about how our educational systems are really a joke....in order to go to college, required is gym in order to get a degree in accounting??????  And we have to pay for that?  And nobody protests it?  They don't want us to stand together, that is why we're being conditioned to believe what we believe....society dictates trends in social behaviors...so, in order to keep us preoccupied, is by conditioning us with TVs and giving us less bang for our buck in education.

This is 2010....we should be way further along as far as technology, and every other aspect of our lives, however, we haven't really changed, have we?  We continue to be even worse individualists....look out for number one....keep us in debt with credit cards....they tell you to invest, invest, yet, every so many years, the market crashes....?????  Who gains from that...? 

So, my intent here is to prove to you, that yes, you can get cancer from smoking, but it's way overplayed....and in coming to any conclusion, one must ask themselves, Who would benefit the most from this and why?

It's not about all that we're told to believe....it's about how uninformed American's are....how much we don't know....and it isn't about a lack of information, b/c the information is out there....
however, we tend to believe what we're told, without asking questions....we're being conditioned to believe that....
and next it will be people who are overweight people, they've started already....

they scare people into believing...we've learned from history, fear leads people....fear, and hunger....and that's when Hitler took over, when people were hungry and driven by fear.....

this thread was opened for discussion and I don't care if anyone gets off topic....b/c there is so much to be discussed here....

I love discussing these issues.....so please, add your comments if you have any....Kathleen, I'm not stating your wrong....you are not...yes, smoking is bad for you...but the severity of smoking and how it's going to affect you is also dictated by your family medical history....

there are thousands of people out there who have cancer and never smoked a day in they're lives....or have been around smoking....

My girlfriend, when she was still alive, we discussed it....since she never smoked, we could never figure it out....b/c even back then, it was believed that only smoking causes cancer....well, guess what we decided....she was a hairdresser by trade....all those perms....chemicals....??????

Walk into a nail salon sometime...and take a whiff....it's almost sickening strong....and it's all chemicals....

smoking, I believe is not the major cause of cancers and never was, never will be, why, b/c people were scared into hating smokers...and so so many people quit smoking just b/c of that alone....however, if people believed what I just wrote, they would put pressure on these companies, and our government, to fix our infostructures which would cost an awful lot of money....

If you think I'm way off base....why, in all these years....haven't they still released the Warren Commission?  Why in all these years, won't they release they're information they've got on UFO's?  What are they trying to hide...who is benefiting the most from it and why? 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 07:30:41 AM by cremebrulee »

Offline Nana

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2010, 01:40:08 PM »
Creme:

I hope you are right.  I am relieved.  I am a smoker.....the kind that is always trying to Quit!

I dont smoke inside my house or around my children or gc.  But I am very much afraid to die of Cancer because Mom died of cancer and had unbearable pain for one and a half years.

I do hope to die of something else. 

Thanks
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove:
Shakespeare

cremebrulee

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2010, 02:00:24 PM »
Hi Nana
I'm very sorry your mother passed away so painfully....

Please understand, I'm not saying, smoking doesn't cause cancer in some folks...it depends on they're genes...we all carry the cancer gene in our bodies...and it is activated by something in some...and in others it's not...

What I'm trying to say is...they use scare tactics to convince us and it is way overdone...everything in moderation....yes, smoking is harmful...however, it also depends on our backgrounds...

My girlfriend now has cancer, she is a smoker, however, she is 70, and the kind of cancer she has, is not the kind that smokers get...it is in fact only 25% of people get this kind.
There are many different types of cancers...

If you walk into a children's hopspital, like Dupont, it is simply mind bottleing to see all these children who have cancers and many other diseases, not to mention, orphans diseases....

I'm not trying to convince people smoking is ok, or to smoke...I think it's a very bad adictive habit....however, I don't believe smoking is the cause of so many cancers....and if you smoke, your bound to get cancer...

We all die sometime, of something...however, when a person passes away, who is above 65 - 70 and people say, "oh, she/he was a smoker earlier in his life"....I mean, that is just not realistic....

In other words, everyone who dies of cancer were not smokers...ever...but they still got it...

and then they're answer to that is...2nd hand smoke....I don't buy it...and never did...yes, if a person is a chain smoker in they're home, I would say chances are better....

and this is just my opinion....I don't know if I'm right, however, it all just doesn't make sense to me at all...and I think it's a smoke screen...to some degree?  I dunno...just my feelings on the subject....and wanted to present some reasons behind my feelings.

Offline Nana

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 02:06:26 PM »
Yes Creme

I understand that it is still a very bad habit.  I hate having the habit but am working on it.   I DO believe that the family background on this is a strong factor also. 

Your post is very interesting though.    And I do have the hope that I will escape my destiny lol.

Hugs
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove:
Shakespeare

kathleen

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 02:58:32 PM »
Creme,

I am SO appreciative of all the time you took to write this long email to me and the list.  And I DO understand.

We have bad radon in our house and have to live with a stripper.  It is the bane of my existence and often causes the water to stop coming out of the tap when the electricity goes out here in dumb New Hampshire, the land of no taxes and no good services.  I would probably live without the stripper and take my chances, except for all the warnings---plumber, stripper guy, water heater guy, home show guy from State, who tell us not to.  So we keep removing the radon from the water.  Cost us $200 this week when the blasted stripper went out again in a storm, to have it all re-activated, but the water flows through the stripper and without it working, we have no water.  FUN.

I know how hard it is to quit smoking, but please keep in mind how MUCH I want you to do it.  62 years old---???  Spring chicken!  You have DECADES left.  And cessation of smoking gives us very quick and speedy rewards.  For me it was:

---No more hanging out my woolies on the line, including in winter, due to my hatred of smelling like smoke
---No more cleaning out tobacco from my purses and pockets
---No more making excuses to friends who had us in their homes, about how safe smoking was and how we needed to do it
---No more SMOKE in the house!

It's wonderful.  I am SO glad I did quit, and I encouraged my husband, who also quit, and my sister.

Yes, there are TONS of environmental toxins everywhere.  This is one we can control.  We can make a decision not to do it.  If there is one direct correlation between cancer and behavior, it is cigarettes and lung cancer.  Yes, people get it who don't smoke, and again, people don't get it who do.

On the other hand, this is your life, and if you decide that this is your choice, I totally respect it. 

I just wish my friend could feel the same now.  At this point, after so much chemo and terror, she is so wishing she had quit.  She thought that if
she got lung cancer she would just be ready to go out (65), but it turns out she's not.  She wants so much now to live that she will go through chemo.

About two weeks ago, I got a very hopeful email from her that her treatment seemed to point to a turn-around, but since then, nothing---and we used to write long emails thrice weekly or more often.  When she first got the news of Stage 4 lung cancer she said to her doctor, "I've been unable to quit," and he said, "You will now."   She is a HUGE loss to me.  I, too, have thought that if I got cancer, I might not go thru chemo, but I haven't been there so I don't know about that landscape of fear and uncertainty.  I hope I never go there.   

There are many lifestyle decisions we all make each and every day and I am NO ONE to stand in any kind of judgment on anyone.  For one thing, I love wine and probably drink too much of it, and someone could definitely make the case that more than one glass a day is very bad for you (me!)  Still, I love it---and sugar---and butter---and salt, so who is to say?  (On my recent trip to the Midwest, my home, I consumed as many doughnuts as possible, plus all the local pizza possible from my favorite childhood place.  These were such great tastes from my childhood I was like a thirst-starved person in the desert who couldn't get enough water.  I also ignore cholesterol and much other medical advice.)

But if you decide you want to quit, know that I support you because I've been there.  It's tough, and it's slogging, but, from my standpoint having been through it, it's so worth it.  Not just because of the lung cancer deal, but because of all the other benefits---including financial.

This list has been a life saver for me and I do not wish to offend anyone on it, especially you.  Just know I'm saying what I do because I care about your future. 

Love your posts,

Kathleen
 

barelythere

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 03:27:45 PM »
Creme,

I am SO appreciative of all the time you took to write this long email to me and the list.  And I DO understand.

We have bad radon in our house and have to live with a stripper.  It is the bane of my existence and often causes the water to stop coming out of the tap when the electricity goes out here in dumb New Hampshire, the land of no taxes and no good services.  I would probably live without the stripper and take my chances, except for all the warnings---plumber, stripper guy, water heater guy, home show guy from State, who tell us not to.  So we keep removing the radon from the water.  Cost us $200 this week when the blasted stripper went out again in a storm, to have it all re-activated, but the water flows through the stripper and without it working, we have no water.  FUN.

I know how hard it is to quit smoking, but please keep in mind how MUCH I want you to do it.  62 years old---???  Spring chicken!  You have DECADES left.  And cessation of smoking gives us very quick and speedy rewards.  For me it was:

---No more hanging out my woolies on the line, including in winter, due to my hatred of smelling like smoke
---No more cleaning out tobacco from my purses and pockets
---No more making excuses to friends who had us in their homes, about how safe smoking was and how we needed to do it
---No more SMOKE in the house!

It's wonderful.  I am SO glad I did quit, and I encouraged my husband, who also quit, and my sister.

Yes, there are TONS of environmental toxins everywhere.  This is one we can control.  We can make a decision not to do it.  If there is one direct correlation between cancer and behavior, it is cigarettes and lung cancer.  Yes, people get it who don't smoke, and again, people don't get it who do.

On the other hand, this is your life, and if you decide that this is your choice, I totally respect it. 

I just wish my friend could feel the same now.  At this point, after so much chemo and terror, she is so wishing she had quit.  She thought that if
she got lung cancer she would just be ready to go out (65), but it turns out she's not.  She wants so much now to live that she will go through chemo.

About two weeks ago, I got a very hopeful email from her that her treatment seemed to point to a turn-around, but since then, nothing---and we used to write long emails thrice weekly or more often.  When she first got the news of Stage 4 lung cancer she said to her doctor, "I've been unable to quit," and he said, "You will now."   She is a HUGE loss to me.  I, too, have thought that if I got cancer, I might not go thru chemo, but I haven't been there so I don't know about that landscape of fear and uncertainty.  I hope I never go there.   

There are many lifestyle decisions we all make each and every day and I am NO ONE to stand in any kind of judgment on anyone.  For one thing, I love wine and probably drink too much of it, and someone could definitely make the case that more than one glass a day is very bad for you (me!)  Still, I love it---and sugar---and butter---and salt, so who is to say?  (On my recent trip to the Midwest, my home, I consumed as many doughnuts as possible, plus all the local pizza possible from my favorite childhood place.  These were such great tastes from my childhood I was like a thirst-starved person in the desert who couldn't get enough water.  I also ignore cholesterol and much other medical advice.)

But if you decide you want to quit, know that I support you because I've been there.  It's tough, and it's slogging, but, from my standpoint having been through it, it's so worth it.  Not just because of the lung cancer deal, but because of all the other benefits---including financial.

This list has been a life saver for me and I do not wish to offend anyone on it, especially you.  Just know I'm saying what I do because I care about your future. 

Love your posts,

Kathleen
 

I must comment.  I am a smoker, scratch that, I was.  I stopped by using the e-cigarette, sold online which has save my life.  It does have nicotine in the cartridge so I don't feel like I'm giving up anything.  I went to my Pulmonologist and he is thrilled, though he said he could not recommend it because it has not been stamped by the FDA.  I asked him what the difference was between the nicotine patch and gums and  he said, nothing but the heat from the e-cigarette.

This looks like a cigarette, has no odor and a vapor comes out just like a cigarette.   This is the most wonderful thing.
No more 6000 carcinogens that tobacco has.  No tobacco!  I was getting sick all the time, now nothing. 

I cannot recommend this enough. To anyone who needs to stop, I can tell you that lots of money is made by tobacco taxes.  I only hope the govt. doesn't take this off the market.   Cigarettes were my crutch but it wasn't a secret, only it wasn't a secret. 

I never smoked in front of anyone.  Smokers have been made to feel like they are the trash of the earth. In fact, my Daughter in law said that only trash smokes.  Thanks.  I am not trash and never have been.


Offline Pen

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 04:35:45 PM »
It is harder for some to quit than others. My dad just stopped one day, mom never could quit until she was dying of cancer (not lung, ironically.) I feel very fortunate that I never got addicted while messing around with it as a teen or sucking up all that secondhand smoke. People who don't smoke aren't morally better than those who do, just lucky to have not gotten hooked.

I tell kids now to do the math, since tobacco is costly. When they see how much it can cost in a lifetime, not to mention possible side effects, they think twice about trying it. Just like trying alcohol, drugs, or fad diets, you never know ahead of time whether or not you'll be one of the unlucky ones who develops a full-blown problem.

Best wishes to you all who have quit, are working on quitting, or who are thinking about it. The benefits are worth it. Now if only I could break my addictions to Netflix and cappuccinos.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

barelythere

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 04:39:47 PM »
It is harder for some to quit than others. My dad just stopped one day, mom never could quit until she was dying of cancer (not lung, ironically.) I feel very fortunate that I never got addicted while messing around with it as a teen or sucking up all that secondhand smoke. People who don't smoke aren't morally better than those who do, just lucky to have not gotten hooked.

I tell kids now to do the math, since tobacco is costly. When they see how much it can cost in a lifetime, not to mention possible side effects, they think twice about trying it. Just like trying alcohol, drugs, or fad diets, you never know ahead of time whether or not you'll be one of the unlucky ones who develops a full-blown problem.

Best wishes to you all who have quit, are working on quitting, or who are thinking about it. The benefits are worth it. Now if only I could break my addictions to Netflix and cappuccinos.

Smoking is an addiction to some like crack cocaine, if you can imagine.  I'd never do such a thin as that yet here I am a closet addict to cigarettes.  Not anymore.  Just nicotine and suprisingly, nicotine is not all that terrible, just addictive.  So now I'm addicted to something else.

cremebrulee

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2010, 04:48:35 PM »
Thanks girls for your encouragement and posts.....
I've quite 3 times before...once for three years, once for one year and the other time I don't remember how long it was...
yes, it is indeed an addiction...

Kathleen, I'm very sorry you to lost your friend....was she an angel?  Reason I ask, mine was...loved by all and such a sweet lady. 

Girls, I'm cutting back now, as the chantix is helping....so, every little bit counts....I really don't want to quit, but I do...if that makes sense?  They are way to expensive....sheesh....

Hugs to all of you and thanks again
Good night...
sweet dreams....

cadagi101

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 10:13:12 PM »
Creme
 Your post was very informative and so well written.   I got a lot out of reading it.  I will read it a few more times.


Kathleen, some people might make smokers feel like the trash of the earth, I don't have that opinion and never have.   I have a problem with people smoking when next to me at a function and I do ask them politely to put it out.  I explain I have chronic asthma and it is affecting me.   I do realize "I" could  walk away (not always possible but I 100% believe I shouldn't have to).    A non smoker said to me once "I wouldn't pass wind in public and think everyone else should have to put up with it."   Most smokers are very considerate of others. 

cremebrulee

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2010, 04:00:57 AM »
Creme
 Your post was very informative and so well written.   I got a lot out of reading it.  I will read it a few more times.


Kathleen, some people might make smokers feel like the trash of the earth, I don't have that opinion and never have.   I have a problem with people smoking when next to me at a function and I do ask them politely to put it out.  I explain I have chronic asthma and it is affecting me.   I do realize "I" could  walk away (not always possible but I 100% believe I shouldn't have to).    A non smoker said to me once "I wouldn't pass wind in public and think everyone else should have to put up with it."   Most smokers are very considerate of others.

Julia, thanks for your input....and your valid feelings....my mother (foster mother) had breathing disabilities therefore, it made me much more aware then some smokers....as some people do, they are not aware beyond themselves....and we all are like that at times, however, when in a resturant, before the smoking laws...I didn't smoke...and always went outside or walked away from people...and yes indeed, there are some people who absolutely make the statement, "I hate smokers" which comes from the fear which the media is responsible for instilling...however, there are some people who are simply offended by the mere smell of smoke...my brother in law doesn't smoke, but once my mother picked up a wiff of someone smoking, we didn't see anyone smoking, it was while we were walking...and he said, "does it really bother you (we were outside) so much so that you can't breath, or are you merely offended by it?  She agreed, that she was offended by it....believe me, it wasn't anything, not even close, however, some people do make a big what to do about it.....

I am very well aware of how it smells upon leaving work and passing the door to the outside designated smoking area....and yes, it does stink....awful, because there are a lot of people out there smoking at all times...however...it passes quickly...and if one doesn't smoke, they can get away from it.

I can understand the smoking laws on the beach, only b/c of the used cig butts some very uncaring smokers put in the sand....I always picked my up and put the in the cig pac when they were cool....however, it bothers me to, when I used to go to the beach and there were cigs all over the sand...it also bothers me when people throw garbage out they're windows...around here we have "adopt a highway" where people get togehter and clean up the highway b/c people throw they're mcdonalds bags, beer cans, tires, etc...along the highways.....sad, but true.


kathleen

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2010, 05:27:28 AM »
Creme and all,

First of all, I hope my replies avoid any moralizing.  Smoking is not a moral issue and never has been.  It's a behavioral choice, and as such, is to be respected; considerate smokers don't hurt anyone else, and most are very considerate.  I was probably not very considerate when I smoked, because I wasn't aware, as you said.  I never considered other people much when I smoked the way you do.  I am in no position to moralize to anyone about smoking.

As you say Creme, no one knows who will be hit by lung cancer.  It's my opinion that my choice to quit was for the betterment of my own personal life, and that of my third child.  He was a baby when I quit and the prime motivator. If he hadn't been born I probably wouldn't have quit.  But it's not my place to judge or moralize for others.

Second, mores and social attitudes toward smoking change and are very different now from when we started.  When I was a young newspaper reporter, every single person in the newsroom smoked except one man.  Ashtrays were provided, and we all considered smoking to be part of our image as tough guy journalists.  The thought never even crossed our minds that this was potentially harmful to the non-smoker, and he wouldn't have dreamed of asking us to stop.  During the time I worked there I only smoked and ate as little as possible and dropped to 87 pounds and then began getting very sick.  But I continued to smoke.  It was part of my image, and very very important for me to be regarded as one of the group, because I was the only woman on the staff of all men.

During Women's Liberation era, cigarette companies put out a brand just for women.  Do you remember that?  "You've got your own cigarette now, baby..." ran the jingle, and it was a mark of freedom.  No wonder we all took it up back then.

Pen makes an excellent point that quitting is different for different people.  I was one of those people who just walked away from it and never turned back.  This was after watching an HBO movie about a young school principal in Los Angeles who was dying of lung cancer.  For the first time I didn't say, "This couldn't be me--" I said, "This could happen to me."  I didn't want my baby son to grow up without a mother; this film definitely tried to put fear into the viewer, and it worked on me anyway.  My husband had a much harder time quitting.  And I had a great uncle who just could not quit no matter what.  My aunt said he was smoking on the stretcher as they carried him from the house, he had to be hospitalized for lung cancer.  My theory is some people have higher addiction levels to nicotine, but it's not based on anything but observation.  My mother never quit until she went into a nursing home and smoking wasn't allowed.  A lifelong heavy smoker, she suffered no ill effects from it that we knew of.

I particularly quit, too, because I then lived in the very polluted area of Boston, not as bad as LA, but bad.  That combination of smoking and air pollution, it seemed to me, was threatening.  I have heard that there are many air-pollution-related deaths in Toronto each year.  That is not something that we can control.

Creme, your statement that you "don't want to quit, but I do," is also so true.  It's hard to give this up emotionally. I felt I would never write again without smoking while I did it, but it wasn't true.  I coped, and quickly.  But we can believe that life without it has less quality.  Some people quit and really miss it; I never did, I don't know why.

As far as smokers being polite, in the U.S. this is totally true.  It has not been so true in French Canada where we have a small second home.  Some
older French Canadian people are militant about smoking and still feel it is their right to smoke when and where they wish.  Perhaps in response to American tourists, all the restaurants there now are smoke free, a very recent event, and it is becoming less likely in public places.  Also the health care system in Canada has been threatened financially by people who develop smoking-related diseases, so the government is encouraging cessation of the habit. Again, social/political pressure.  But of course, even in Quebec, if you are a non-smoker and you prefer to avoid a smoker, you can just walk away.   

My complaint, and it's a bitter one, about social behavior has nothing to do with smokers.  It's about the motorcyclists in New Hampshire.  Now there
is a group of really rude, highly destructive people who do not care how much pollution they emit from their open exhaust systems (some experts say it is 100-200 times the pollution of an SUV or a truck) and force people to breathe their pollution, or how much noise they make.  Don't get me started on this group of bullies.  Their consideration for others is below zero.  I can't walk away from them when they shatter the stillness on my road and terrorize the birds.  I HAVE to listen to them and breathe the foul air they pour into my otherwise pristine rural environment, which we chose hoping for peace and clean air.  I am really, really angry about this situation.

And what about people who bring their pets into public stores and restaurants?  My son has such an allergy to pet hair he starts reacting immediately and has to leave the room.  The other day I was in a bookstore and looked down and there was an unleashed dog, the owner several aisles away.  I was lucky I didn't step on the dog and hurt it.  I mean, come on, people!  Give a thought to others!  Plus, does your pet really want to be jammed in a crowded store?  Once in a department store I finally left because the dog was so big I just couldn't get past it, and clearly they were not leaving.

Creme, I'm sure whatever decision you make will be right for you.

Thank you for asking about my friend.  She went to stay with her sister, a physician, when she got sick.  I hear from her less and less, nothing since the email saying her chemo was working.  She used to at least send out a group email report, now, nothing, so I suspect the news is not good although I pray she may get a remission.  Yes, she was an angel.  We read the same books, were both adoptive mothers with problem adopted kids, and so on.  I miss her so much, but this list has helped.  I do not even know if I will hear if she dies, because her sister does not know me.  It is very hard at our age to lose a friend.  Every day I pray, pray she will make it.  She did not answer my last email---for the first time, and that was weeks ago.  I don't bug her with a lot of "what's happening?" emails because she is overwhelmed with the situation at times and writes when she can.  Creme, you can see how this situation in my life has had a big effect on me.

Finally, re-reading your first post, I agree that the government, aided by the media, has embarked on a Fear First in America campaign since 9-11.  The truth is hard to get at.  The medical/pharma professions help out by creating fearful new syndromes and illnesses, then marketing drugs with huge side effects (like death, don't you love those ads where they tell you the one benefit you are going to get and then, so fast you can't understand, the 65 side effects, some of which could kill you?)

Keep your fingers crossed for my friend, please,

Kathleen

cremebrulee

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2010, 06:38:37 AM »
Ohhhhh Kathleen...thanks so much for your support...and such a really good post...very much enjoyed reading it....however, please don't think that anyone here thought you were demoralizing...or negitive in any way...listen girlfriend...there are times in the forum we are not all going to agree...(and please understand, I'm not referring to this thread here either) just explaining to you, that we all have different ideas and feelings about topics...but that doesn't mean I think any less of you, but respect you for your opinon and beliefs...I do love to discuss topics...and do love a good challenging discussion now and then, (and again, not referring to this thread) but never ever would I hold anything against someone for they're opinion or for disagreeing with me, (again, I didn't feel that way at all in this thread)  and hopefully visa versa....

I believe we can rest assure, that we are a unique group of women here...who can put down they're feelings on paper and not fear that someone will take it personally....but more so, also realize, that we can learn from each other, support one another even if we don't agree...anything I ever write about in this forum, is never directed at anyone here, but written from experiences from the outside...so, please don't ever think any other way and do feel comfortable in that, so you can honestly know, that you can share without fear of someone judging you or feeling like you are attacking anyone here, as well as the rest of us...

What I was explaining was the closed minded social attacks from others....you can't imagine what negative comments I've heard from people....and a lot of they're hate and fears come from the negative reports the media is always coming out with.

I posted the first length post in this thread, to explain the pollution problems, which I think are cancer causing agents more so then cigs, but not to many people realize, what is really going on out there and believe everything the news reports....so many times, I've heard them report on another human being, making they're stories one sided and dramatic, just to get ratings...and, all it is, is lies.....

anyway, please know in confidence, that your posts are very valuable...and these women here, if they disagree will not be mean or hostile or offended by your opinion...I've found the ladies here to be exceptionally patient, who care about the feelings of others...that is why they've helped me so much....

so post away girlfriend and thanks so much for offering such informative and well written feelings....yours, who you are....the most significant part of your being...

Hugs
Creme

Offline Pooh

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2010, 11:24:17 AM »
Quoted:

I must comment.  I am a smoker, scratch that, I was.  I stopped by using the e-cigarette, sold online which has save my life.  It does have nicotine in the cartridge so I don't feel like I'm giving up anything.  I went to my Pulmonologist and he is thrilled, though he said he could not recommend it because it has not been stamped by the FDA.  I asked him what the difference was between the nicotine patch and gums and  he said, nothing but the heat from the e-cigarette.

This looks like a cigarette, has no odor and a vapor comes out just like a cigarette.   This is the most wonderful thing.
No more 6000 carcinogens that tobacco has.  No tobacco!  I was getting sick all the time, now nothing. 

I cannot recommend this enough. To anyone who needs to stop, I can tell you that lots of money is made by tobacco taxes.  I only hope the govt. doesn't take this off the market.   Cigarettes were my crutch but it wasn't a secret, only it wasn't a secret. 

I never smoked in front of anyone.  Smokers have been made to feel like they are the trash of the earth. In fact, my Daughter in law said that only trash smokes.  Thanks.  I am not trash and never have been.




Ok, you got me curious on the e-cig and I started researching it.  I found multiple companies offering it.  If I may ask, which one do you use and like?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 11:26:27 AM by Pooh »
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

barelythere

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Re: For Kathleen - Topic on Smoking....Things that we don't know
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 02:57:53 PM »
I sent you a PM.  It is a miracle for me.