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Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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two wrong doings?
« on: March 21, 2016, 09:59:16 PM »
Dear WWU.  I took time to look over posts, while trying to heal myself. It seems/feels to me this might be a place where I am not alone, in what I am dealing with.  Thank you to whom ever created this site!!

So hears my low down. I have two sons, Two different Fathers. Neither have participated in their sons lives. Not that I didn’t want them too just because they didn’t (simple as that). I struggled raising two boys on my own, but we made it through.  I did my best, and I know I wasn’t perfect, but it was my best.

My oldest son now 26: He has always been independent. When he started school at age 5, he was dressed, hair combed, and ready to go. Mind you it was 5 in the morning. He lived between my parents and I at ages 7-15.  1600 km separated us. I didn’t like that, but he longed for my parents, they gave him security,  I was always moving around for work or cheaper places to live. I learned not long ago, that on one of our summer camps he was abused. By a woman! He has approx 11. At 12 he started using marijuana. At 15, he was out of control.  At 16, he was on his own on the streets ect…  We didn’t really speak unless he needed something from me. And if I didn’t have what he needed, I was told I was a piece of trash. He would yell, swear, blame, bully, threaten, everything besides throw a punch. About 7 years ago he was straightened out had a girlfriend and was moving to the province in which I lived. I owned a business so he asked me to employ him. Hesitantly, I did. Big mistake! We fought, he yelled at me in front of employee's and customers. He was living with me and threatened to smash everything in my house if I didn’t pay him….NOW.  It wasn’t payday for anyone…?? So again I asked him to leave...away he went. We didn’t talk for 2 yrs this time. In that time he started using a much worse drug, and I searched high and low for him. He disappeared for 6 months without a word to anyone I thought I had lost him. I thought he was dead. Then he turned up, cleaned up and again he asked for my help. So I went and got him, he moved into the town I am in, things were going good. Until his GF broke my truck and I asked her to pay for the damages. Well…..hells doors opened!!! Again he was verbally abusing me, blaming me, and saying things like I am a “wasted piece of skin”, horrible things came out of his mouth. Heartbroken again, I disconnected and we have not spoken nor seen one another for 8 months now. I am staring to accept the silence, and take comfort in the silence.


Then recently, and up to today. My youngest which I thought I had a loving relationship with, started in on me. He is 21, he just had a baby girl with his ex-gf. I was not thrilled at first of them having a baby, but I was accepting, and excited when she arrived. I am patiently waiting to see the baby it might take time for my son to get his visitation rights in place, so I am sitting back waiting. Then he says, he feels he cannot see his baby nor can I,  because I had talked with his ex's parents and expressed my concerns of two young adults having a baby. Neither parent in my opinion were nor are near ready. Neither was I when I had my first son, I know what it takes and I disagreed. So the other Gp's and ex Gf seem to be holding my view against my son. He is bitter with me now, seems to be blaming me for his life and whats happening in it, and started saying I slapped him when he was younger! I did no such thing! I am heartbroken. I didn’t think my youngest would do the blame thing with me. He saw what his brother did and what it did to me.  I am disengaging now from my youngest. The two of them I believe are ganging up because they finally have something in common to talk about (Me). How can I accept the fact that I raised two children that I feel I need to disengage from? What did I do wrong? How do I stop this pain in my heart?  :'(

Offline luise.volta

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 10:33:34 PM »
Welcome, I. We ask all new members to go to our Home Page and under Read Me First, to read the posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We are a monitored Website.

I am 89 years old and this is my forum. It grew out of my original question and answer website when the most common questions were about coping with adult children and extended families. Something more was needed and it occurred to me that it was a supportive community and time.

My take is our best is all we have to give. Our adult children aren't full fledged adults and many of them flop around making choices that create consequences. Blame is often enticing and is, to my way of thinking, another stage in maturing for many. Some make it and some get stuck there. Our parenting is done from my point of view and the ball is in their court.

Those of us who have experienced the kind of heart wrenching blame that you are experiencing can also get stuck in the pain of it. Many of us had very simple expectations and find that even those are hard to let go of; like simple respect, for instance. For me, what it boiled down to with my eldest son, was learning to let go of injustice and refusing to accept abuse of any kind. I gave it my best and eventually I created a life for myself beyond parenting. It took a long time.

This, if you want it to be, can be a place to to heard and understood. The sharing that is offered comes from the heart and this is a place where many healings have taken place. Those wonderful souls often stay and help the ones coming along behind them.

You will get differing opinions and suggestions. Take what you like a leave the rest. We don't debate here...we don't criticize. What happens here comes from empathy and shared experiences. No one needs be alone with this. That's certainly how I felt...like everyone had done a good job of parenting except me. We need to rebuild our self respect. Others can't 'brand' us unless we accept it.

And so the door is open. Please come on in and make yourself at home. Hugs...
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 10:41:58 PM »
Luise. Thank you for this safe place to heal. I hope to be as strong as you are one day.

I appreciate the quick response and warm welcome.


Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 08:06:57 AM »
This morning i feel a bit better after reading posts and reading your response Luise. But i have this unsettling feeling. Why do I have to disconnect? Isnt there a way to help my second son realize that blaming his Mother only hurts us both in the long run, and breaks my heart in the mean time? How can i get that point across...should i even try?

I am a mess the tears are flowing,  I hate the thought of not being able to see him.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2016, 11:32:40 AM »
We helped them when they were little and it is very hard to get that we need to focus elsewhere. At least, for me, that was an issue. It was the 'once a mother' conflict. How could I possibly say it wasn't my problem? My son didn't want to be be responsible for his life lessons. He turned to me, as he had in childhood and I responded as his mom. Then he hated me for helping. Blame was the only place he could find to hide from growing up. I didn't get that it was about him and that he was trying to make it about me to avoid it. I got stuck in thinking it was my fault somehow. I thought I could help and when that failed over and over again, I thought no that longer offering to help would kill me. What was about me was my despair. I finally faced my own responsibility to heal within and go on with joy in my heart. My life mattered, too. I'd given parenting my best.

You will find as you read our Website that there are many approaches to these issues. One very strong category is to go to our Home Page and scroll down to Helpful Resources. That is where we have a gold mine of books that have saved many here from going down and not being able to get up. More hugs...
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Offline Green Thumb

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2016, 07:09:58 PM »
Welcome, "ok" and take some time off from worrying over this situation so that your mind and heart have time to let it go and when you come back, you'll likely have clarity.  I am sorry that your kids are so difficult and unhappy people. I often have to write down what upsets me and vow to not think about it for a while. I say to myself, I won't think about this for a week, and when the sad thoughts pop in my head, I say "STOP" and get busy cleaning cabinets or mopping or go for a walk or read a book so that I stop. The other thing I did to help me re-orientate my life was going back to school this Spring. I am loving it, I am busy all the time, and people in my classes think I am smart and friendly and the positive vibe is so much better than the way some of my adult children treat me!

You can't make your younger son accept that any of this is "his fault" -- it is too late, he is an adult now. You can't change him or make him be nice. You can stand up for yourself in a positive and unemotional way.  You can be logical, rational, but likely if the other person is irrational, they will only turn it back to how you are at fault.

Your oldest son sounds like an addict with an addicts way of manipulating to control and gain access to what he wants. Sober or using, he sounds like this from your description. Al Anon helped me when my ex husband was drinking and drugging and making me the blame. Al Anon helped me see how I needed to get out of the way and let him experience his consequences and why this was good for the addict. How my enabling and shame was not good for the addict.

You might see if Life Code by Dr Phil has any information for you that opens your eyes to your particular situation. I wrote a book report under the forum for helpful stuff that Luise mentioned.

I have three adult children. One is usually nice to me, one is okay but ruled by her husband and one is especially mean and hateful to me. The last one is now being super nice to me. If you look back to late fall, you'll see a post about how hateful she was at her wedding. I can't figure it out but I know it won't last. One of them invited me to drive several hours to another city to their Easter luncheon this weekend, invited last night for this Saturday, and once again, no invite to spend the night. And no response to my text saying we can't attend. All communication by text. Went last year, stayed at a motel. This year, can't make it due to other demands on my time & health reasons. Plus, I won't be in the same room ever again with my ex and the mean daughter, who ganged up on me at the mean daughter's wedding. I am not that stupid! But the mean daughter is inviting me for Thanksgiving already. (I accepted but am not banking on this and am not expecting to be seriously invited when the time comes, she will likely be  mad at me by then!) Also, all communication by text with this mean daughter. I am sorry to digress but am just running on and on to show you that many of us have problems with our adult children.


Offline Pen

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2016, 03:04:10 PM »
Welcome to the site, Itsgoingtobeok...love your screen name, BTW. I'm sorry you're going through this, but so glad you found us.

I spent too much time trying to figure it all out, trying to change my DS/DIL, be who they seemed to want me to be, spending hours/days/weeks crying, raging, hiding, ingratiating, etc. etc. Maybe I got sick of grieving and being miserable or maybe I decided to spend my golden years doing things that fulfilled me & made me happier. Something finally clicked, after enough time here on the site, and I am mostly OK (see what I did there?) these days. Every now & then it goes wobbly, but I recover quickly  ;)

I had abandonment issues and guilt to deal with; you may have other buttons that are being pushed. Our kids sure know how to get to us! When things settle down a bit, consider taking care of yourself - as GT suggests, take classes or find your center in some other meaningful way. I'll always miss the relationship I once had w/DS, but I refuse to spend my remaining years on this earth being miserable.

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 06:42:35 AM »
Thank  you Luise, Pen, Trailblazing, and Green Thumb.

 I think what i needed to understand is the point of blame is "their' way of deflecting their issues/problems. It just so happens, I was the person to whom caught the crap.
 I am feeling better and stronger already.I did a self evaluation, i feel I am a good, honest, caring, confident person. I don't need anyone in my realm who will put me down or try to make me feel anything I don't want to feel.
I will miss the way things were, but in all honesty, i don't think they respected me for years. In turn that made it even easier for them to use me as their emotional punching bags.

 I am just going to keep on keeping on, and do what makes ME happy!!


Offline luise.volta

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 10:37:15 AM »
Yay, Team! :D
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2016, 07:32:50 AM »
Hi Ladies need some advise. As I have mentioned, my oldest son and I have a gas and match relationship. Recently my father his GrF passed away and we had to speak again. That was ok i consoled my son. But once again he drove a knife in my heart. The thing is he was partially raised by his grandparents, he loved them they loved him. As for me I loved him looked after him but he seems to have no memory of that. He stated that his grandfather named him!!!!! , he wrote it on social media. I felt a knife go right through my heart. His grandfather died, being angry with my son because of the way he treated me, he wasn't at peace with his grandson. He had felt the same pain I have felt because my son had taken advantage of him as well.
The thing is, is that tomorrow is the cremation. My son and i will be the only two there. I dont want to tell him anything that will hurt him. I just want to go get it done and go in peace. But i feel scared to see my son. I feel like I DONT want to see him or need to. Also, the last 10 months have been peaceful, and i dont want to start back into this toxic relationship. My guts are wrenching of the thought of seeing him.  :(

Offline luise.volta

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2016, 08:13:51 AM »
My heart goes out to you, I. All I can think of to offer is that you will get past it and we will be here for you on the other side of this. Hugs...
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Offline Bamboo2

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2016, 11:57:57 AM »
I'm sorry for your pain. My take would be to concentrate on yourself and your loss right now.  Tensions are high; I'd find ways to not engage in or react to anything your son says that could lead to anger or blame.  Is there some supportive person you can bring with you?  It might help to keep your contact with your son brief. Seeing him tomorrow does not mean you need to continue accepting toxic behavior from him. You know what you need to feel good - detachment -  and I'd maintain that healthy, life-affirming boundary. You could check out threads about detaching with love/medium chill under the Helpful Resources section.

We are with you in spirit.

Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2016, 08:07:46 AM »
Venting: Well here we go again.  I was informed by my another family member, my S is back on the drugs, even worse than before. He robbed someone and moved to a city on the west coast with his enabling GF. I am assuming they went to her mothers. My S called, in confidence confessed to this family member. I took that information and informed the GF's M that he was indeed on drugs and that i was concerned for her daughter. i informed my family member I had warned the GF's M. He then says this to me.  Why would you do that? He trusted ME! You should stop running your mouth, your ruining his life...ect...ect.

In my eyes, my S is an addict, and this family member should not be keeping his dirty little secret. My S could wind up dead, or hurt someone. Why would he want to keep his trust? My S lies about EVERYTHING!!!

So now this has put a wedge between myself and my closest family member.  I just got to a place where I was happy and content. It almost feels like my son does this to ensure I will never be happy....awwwwwwwwwwww

I am having trouble sleeping now, I have anxiety, I have been so busy renovating to keep my mind off of this I am hurting myself physically. Its hard to just put it to the back of my mind and forget about it. Any advise?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 08:15:29 AM by luise.volta »

Offline luise.volta

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2016, 08:26:07 AM »
For me at least, the peace I found at first was short-lived. I suppose that was because I had changed and others hadn't. The drama went on and the web around me took me down again...and more than once. I tried to make sense of the senseless and looked for logical solutions in pathological situations. I, too found dependable allies an inconsistent resource and faced loss after loss. I vented by writing to myself and worked off as much of the angst as I could by walking until I thought I'd drop. We all take different paths to find the way through and out. To find ourselves and let the rest go. No easy task, ever. We are with you, I. Hugs...

"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Offline Itsgoingtobeok

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Re: two wrong doings?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2016, 12:49:30 PM »
Luise, you are so wise. It really is a web isn't it? A toxic one. I am shocked, i guess, that this family member thinks he's helping by being a confidant. He himself was in the same place once, he should know that he who blames others, takes no responsibility for ones self worth. I cant believe this person is falling for it. I am just disappointed in it all.