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Heading toward estrangement?

Started by Bamboo2, September 21, 2015, 06:34:28 PM

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Bamboo2

Thanks for your advice, Pooh and Monroe.  I agree with the idea of waiting till the holidays and extending an invite.  You are right, Monroe, it would be a long wait for an apology.  She would say she already gave me one, and I did hear the words "I'm sorry" couched within a lot of other excuse-like phrases that effectively nullified it.  It wasn't the type of apology that I have modeled to her on numerous occasions, and that she has given me in the past.  She knows.

I have learned here that holding too many expectations around the holidays will just bring me down, and now that she has had some holidays with BFs family, I have gotten past that.  The first year was the hardest, but it is easier each time now.  In fact, sorry to say, it is sometimes more relaxing without her there, knowing the BF drama or memories of past BF drama that sometimes accompany her.

luise.volta

My take is the ball is in her court...hold that line...and have a life. Just saying...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

starfire

Bamboo-

I want to start out by saying you sound like an amazing and strong woman, but just from reading what you wrote I can tell this situation is taking a toll on you. I think the best thing for you at the moment is distance, however let her know that if she ever needs you, you'll be there. Explain though you will not accept this man with how he is treating her because she means so much to you and you can't stand watching someone treat her that way. Let her know that while it may be good at times if it gets to the point where she has to call the police it is not worth it. She may want to take care of him but in the long wrong it will hurt them both so it be better ending it sooner for both of them. I think at the moment she needs tough love. When I was that age I thought I knew best too, enjoy the peace and I hope things get better.

Good Luck.

Bamboo2

Hi Starfire, and welcome! Thank you for your kind words. Yes, I am feeling that distance is really helping me now.  I know DD was in town last weekend and I didn't even spend much time thinking about her.  Also, I am intentionally not looking at her bank account transactions, which my husband still has access to.  I am trying to not do/read/think anything about her that will get myself thinking in a downward spiral.  This is fairly new for me and I'm kind of proud of myself.  (Got the idea from WWU...thanks for that  ;D)  Also it gets my husband and me to refocus on ourselves; that's been so good for us!

As for the BF, I only saw him twice (in public places both times) since he threatened my husband, and not after the police incident...haven't seen her since then either, and that was a couple of months ago.  We may communicate with her about Thxgiving since we travel five hours and she'd have to plan for the time off from work to join us.  But she has not been in contact with us and I don't expect she will. 

Yes, the tough love route is the way to go.  Drawing the boundaries about our choices vs. her choices is good.  And explaining why we won't see him again.  I liked Pooh's phrasing of not giving him a "free pass" when he hurts someone I love. But I can't really say anything more to her about her ending her relationship with the BF...tried that time and time again from as many angles as I could find, believe me! Now she has to figure that out for herself and I will zip my lips and not get in her way. She knows what DH and I think already. When she decided to break up with him a couple of times this past summer, she wanted me to be there with her to comfort and support her, but then changed her mind about breaking up when he cried, pleaded and threatened suicide. (I've given her resources on how to handle someone who threatens suicide, signs of emotional abuse and resources, etc).  Good thing I haven't gone down there when she's asked me, just to have to turn right around and drive two hours back home because she changed her mind! I've learned it can take 7 or more times before she might really leave him for good, as in most abusive relationships.  I wish I would have known that the first time she broke up and moved out, about 18 months ago, instead of having my hopes dashed and my emotions run through the ringer.  Now I'm wiser and calmer, at least in that regard.  Ha ha...I should have used "Getting Wiser" as my user name...or has that been taken already?   :D  Maybe that name describes all of us  ;)

Thanks, again, wise and caring women, for all your support! 

Green Thumb

Your daughter's behavior has some red flags for me and it sounds a lot like one of my daughters. I suggest you read Dr Phil's Life Code and see if any of it helps shore you up. It could be that your daughter is just spoiled but she may also be a narcissist and incapable of putting anyone other than herself first. In that case, every time you set a boundary, you flick her off. She wants what she wants and she'll do whatever to get it as others don't matter. It is her and her only. I don't think your daughter is going to get nicer, first she will escalate the negativity. You can either have the self respect of standing your ground and doing what is really best for her or you can give in and get run over time after time. If she is doing drugs or drinking a lot, her behavior will be erratic. These are things to watch for. Since BF drinks so much, I would guess she drinks alot, too. People are drawn to others who have their same patterns and 'hobbies' because their normal is the same.

It isn't easy to be going through this. Having a hateful child is very hard and I wish you peace of mind.

luise.volta

GT, if you get a moment would you be willing to go to our Homepage and under Resources, enter a short review of Dr. Phil's 'Life Code', so we don't lose track of it? I think it's what my best friend is up against with her niece and am recommending it to her. Thanks!
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Bamboo2

Hi Green Thumb,
Thank you for your reply and book recommendation.  I will check it out.  In our situation, I think we created our own monster, so to speak, esp my husband, by giving her so much.  She is very pushy when she wants something.  We have had to anticipate every possible desire of hers so we wouldn't let her walk all over us, and it is exhausting.  She has softened up with the latest boundary I initiated, and I think we are done caving in to her.  I think she will fall in line.  She does have a heart of gold, and that is the truth, which I forget sometimes.  She made me lunches for an entire year when she lived at home.  She did a lot of cooking for us. She is really caring with the disabled people she takes care of, and advocates for them something fierce!  As for the drinking, she is taking care of the boyfriend and monitoring his access to alcohol.  She is a caregiver....has been doing it for years before joining our family at age 9.  She drinks, or at least has done it, which she told me.  But now since she is parenting the BF she probably is trying to provide a good example.  He is abusive when he drinks, and that has scared her.  But she is not ready to leave him at this time and I have stopped holding my breath and just let it go and live my own life, which is the only thing I have any control over.  I'm so thankful to the WWU website, which has given me a blueprint for living my life regardless of what happens with my adult child (soon to be two adult children!). Thanks again, Green Thumb, and I am sending warm thoughts your way.   :)

Bamboo2

Hello, all, just an update.  DD came over today to bring us a big cream pie. Yum! She also said that her BF says hi and happy Halloween to me.  (I found out later he was out in her car waiting for her...so relieved she didn't bring him in the house).  As we ate some pie, I told her that I really don't want to hear any more about BF since he has continued to hurt someone I love and I can't give him a free pass when he has continually made her life so hard.....got that choice of wording from Pooh.....thanks, Pooh.  And I said that she is an adult and makes her own choices, and so do DH and I. Got that from Luise....thanks, Luise!  She had tears in her eyes as I told her all that, but she didn't say anything in reply. She said she will be moving back to our area soon, and BFs mom is helping them find them an affordable place.  I said NOTHING...thanks to you all for that great advice!  I'm not going to ask any questions either.  The less I know, the better.  The less I say, the better.  Ignorance really IS bliss  :D. You rock, ladies!  I have made some great strides in a relatively short time, and I give so much credit to you all.  I constantly sing the praises of WWU!

luise.volta

We share...but/and YOU do the work!! Sending hugs...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Pen

So proud of you, B2! It's liberating and empowering, isn't it? I love this site and all my WWU sisters :)
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Bamboo2

You've got that right, Pen.  And I have a page filled with "Penisms"...most notably something you wrote a few years ago about detachment and what that might look like in practice with a loved one.  (Those examples are so useful). I'm going to practice that dance of detachment over the holidays if needed.  I'm going to be okay, with support from my WWU friends as needed.

Thanks for being here  ;D

Monroe

Quote from: Bamboo2 on October 31, 2015, 08:26:59 PM
You've got that right, Pen.  And I have a page filled with "Penisms"...most notably something you wrote a few years ago about detachment and what that might look like in practice with a loved one.  (Those examples are so useful). I'm going to practice that dance of detachment over the holidays if needed.  I'm going to be okay, with support from my WWU friends as needed.

Thanks for being here  ;D

Bamboo - could you re-post what Pen wrote about detachment?   I could use a refresher.   Thanks


Bamboo2

Sure...I will post it under a new thread called Loving Detachment 101.  Luise, I will put it under Adult Children, but if you want to move it to another area, feel free to do so.  I have found great info from Pen and Elsieshaye that helped clarify what loving detachment can look like, and that is what I will post on that thread.  Thanks!!

Pooh

Good job Bamboo!  You did that really well.  And Luise is right, we offer suggestions but you did the hard part!
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

QuietSong

November 08, 2015, 05:49:12 PM #29 Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 03:26:12 PM by Pen
Bamboo,
Sounds like you are doing really well here.  I am glad for you.  Thank you for your help too.  I can't add anything to what all these wonderful gals have suggested.  But I am glad to be a newbie with you.  I just got done working my three/12's.  I am tired but feel good emotionally.  I have suffered for the last six years with this son.  I know he is an adult and can make his own choices.  I just wasn't dealing well with his choices.  First he joined the Army at age 27.  (I don't like fighting of any kind)  Then he met this woman on FB.  Site unseen.....he fell for her. 
Before all of this he and I were buddies.  We had actually become friends once he was a young man.  He had moved out, which was fine.  We continued to be buddies and would talk on the phone a couple times a week.  Even after boot camp......he would call me approx. once a week.  But then I noticed he called less and less.  I just figured he was busy doing his Army thing.  Nope.  He was busy FBing with her.  I'm not real bad with that "no woman is good enough for my son" thing.  At first........I welcomed her with open arms.  But within a couple of days I learned that she didn't give a care to what I thought.  She had hooked him and I was gonna be out of the picture.  If you have heard the new expression "he was catfished" then you'll know what I am talking about.  Learned it from a nurse at work.  Catfished = a person on the internet poses as one person but is another.  ("I am a white man.............in reality, person is a woman of another race") ad infinitum. 
This son was always naive.  Nothing I could do.  Nothing I could say or I would have totally alienated him.  Course considering he has only called me twice this year.........total alienation isn't far off is it.  No the Army doesn't keep him that busy.  He actually calls it going to work.
Anyway Bamboo..........that is a little more of my story.  No I don't call him.  I don't like being put on speaker phone without knowing it so his wife can listen to the conversation.  And no it's not one of those.......we'll all have a conversation thing.  I'm not asked or told that the speaker phone is on.  I am not respected anymore.  This is the relationship's affect on my son.
So I'm done rambling for today Bamboo. 
Thinking of all the great wise women here.   :D