Author Topic: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH  (Read 7813 times)

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Offline luise.volta

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2009, 08:28:07 PM »
I am still unclear abut where she is leaving him for six weeks and why.
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Sassy

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2009, 11:57:09 PM »
Dear AnnieB,
You gave me such helpful advice on my thread. Thank you.  I have looked at yours.  The efforts you are making with your DIL reveal the love in your heart.

Based on the way you were raised, DIL not wanting to talk to you about this argument feels like punishment to you, being denied due process and the right to defend yourself.  That's understandable.  However, I don't think you have any idea what you are defending yourself against.  And the kicker is: I don't think your DIL knows either!! 

Would you feel better if I told you her silence on this matter doesn't seem to be about you at all?

Your original story, from the link you provided, says this:

 
Quote
I commented the things I'd been thinking and said I had wondered if she was unhappy, and had thought about talking to her.  He said, no don't, I will.... he immediately talked to her.  He doesn't yell.  But evidently he mixed his own thoughts with mine. She's been furious at me since.

"He mixed his own thoughts with mine."  Translation: Your son lied to his wife about you.  He lied about what you said and what you thought.  You haven't described any mental or processing defects in your son.  So let's face it. "Mixed" = Lied.

Husbands telling big fat lies make problems with their wives.  Never fails.  And of course, anyone telling big fat lies about you, to someone you want an authentic and trusting relationship with, is going to make problems for you.  They are going to damage that relationship for you with those lies.  You are caught up in their problems - and yet you don't even know what half of them are.

You are aware of some the lies he told her about you.  What she told you that he said you said to him, about the flat tire, and assigning to you specific derogatory terms about her that you'd simply never used.  Lies are like termites, when you spot one, it is just a sign there are more crawling around you can't see. Underneath everything.  Rotting away the foundation.

Your son may have continued to tell more lies to cover up or assuage the lies he told that night.  You will never know.  But he is not the man you sleep next to at night.  He is not the man you have to raise a child with.

All DIL knows is what her husband "mixed" and told her to be true about you.  And then whatever he told her afterwards.  And the fights.

Perhaps your son has lied to his wife before, about other things.  He may "not yell" like she does, but he gets his anger out in his own more subtle ways, doesn't he.  Even his assigning to you his feelings and words, was like one more betrayal.  "See, even my mother thinks you're self-centered and immature"  Double betrayal.  Your concern for her, just became your harsh maligning judgment with a bow on top.  Packaged and Delivered courtesy of sonny-boy express.

This one night at the funeral was not their first time at the rodeo.  Perhaps this lying is the source of her anger towards him. The anger that concerned you so much you brought her anger to your son's attention.  Anger, like she felt about the flat tire.  You like this woman, right?  You want to be close to her because you like or love her.  She must have values and good qualities, the things you want to be close to someone for.  If she were not decent, in your eyes, I am assuming you would not crave such a "deep" bond with her.

Now - why would a decent woman get so mad about a flat tire, something that a rational and decent person simply knows couldn't be helped.  Maybe because the "shopping trip" that never happened, just became one more lie to her.  Perhaps she had time to calculate there was probably never time for her shopping trip.  Just one more lie.  The anger borne of being married to a husband who "mixes" other people's words with his own thoughts, could also explain her other "random" (to you) insults to him for the last 18 months.

You don't know why she doesn't want to talk about it.  You will never know what else your son told her that night.   You will never know what else he told her abut you, before or since.  And none of us never, ever know what goes on in someone else's marriage behind closed doors. 
You do know they had huge rows about this.  have you considered the reason she doesn't want to discuss "it" anymore is because she doesn't want more rows with her husband about this. 

You researched Turkish MILs.  Did you research Turkish men?  I don't believe your son is Turkish?  But your DIL's father was, and all the men in her family she knows, and many of the people she grew up with. Did you know: Turkish men are widely thought to be hands down the most UNFAITHFUL men in the world.  Even a international condom company reported this as a "#1" status in a published worldwide study. Can we conclude that unfaithful Turkish men lie to women?  Just to illustrate DIL's context.

You think its all about you.  I think its about a woman raised not to blindly trust men, especially men who lie. And she'll welcome you into her home because she DOES care for you.  I'd take her statements at face value, Annie. Instead of reading a rejection of you "into" her needs.  She made clear - doesn't care to discuss how her "unhappiness with her husband is showing," or to have you discuss her glaring unhappiness with her husband or herself, or to rehash that night's row yet again, then sleep next to your son.

Arguing with a MIL isn't all bad.  Arguing with your husband about last week's stinky fish sure is.

Just my two cents.  I hope this can give you some perspective you can use.

just2baccepted

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2009, 08:21:04 AM »
Sassy made some interesting points.  I wondered the same thing.  Its hard enough to blend a family but when you have different cultures it can be even harder.  DIL's thinking may be totally different than us good old American DIL's.  her life experiences are different.  Of course I don't know was she brought up in America or does she have strong ties to the Turkish culture? 

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2009, 09:26:07 AM »
To me, "He mixed his own thoughts with mine" means that a broader perspective than his own was presented.

nterpretation can a "sticky-wicket."

And what a glorious discussion about tolerance. You guys are awesome!
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Sassy

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2009, 09:35:18 AM »
Luise I read "But evidently he mixed his own thoughts with mine" like that that as I read it, too. It was the words that followed that sentence, that had me go back and re-read for clarity.

Quote
[She said she didn't want to talk though I did say I hadn't said the things she accused me of saying (he had said she was being self centered and immature about the flat tire..I had not commented at all on that, nor had I used either of those terms).   

AnnieB

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2009, 05:27:21 AM »
Certainly food for thought, and thanks for giving a DIL's possible perspective (and some good points)!

Just a note  :)    All Turkish men aren't unfaithful, her father and brothers are quite decent fellows. 

I don't want to go into analyzing what may have caused her unhappiness except to say it doesn't have to be something anyone has done that makes someone unhappy in a marriage.  I've been married more than once, believe me -- I know.

The only bright side to this is, I've learned a lot about being a MIL and what not to do - it is more complicated than I ever thought, but then aren't we all! 

:)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 06:25:45 AM by AnnieB »

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2009, 02:21:17 PM »
And it can be easy...like falling off a log. It can be wonderful and really simple. Rewarding.
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

SunnyDays09

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2009, 05:35:07 PM »
And it can be easy...like falling off a log. It can be wonderful and really simple. Rewarding.
  Or more like falling into a log CHIPPER.  Then you're nothing but a big mess.

  ROFL  Sorry.  That's just how I see it!!  I'm so bitter. 

Prissy

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2009, 05:48:11 PM »
I know....it's somewhere between deep sorrow and hysteria. It's awful.

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2009, 06:21:01 PM »
Well, I have had four really great DILS. (Yes, I know...two sons and six DILs...don't get me started.) That's four to two in favor of the sweeties.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Two of the four are "exes" and still very close friends. They both come to all of our family "dos" with their new spouses. Well, my own ex is there, too, with his wife...

Maybe I'd better quit wile I'm winning...
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher

Prissy

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2009, 06:25:25 PM »
fffffffffffffffffffffffour???? ??? Kill me...kill me now.

SunnyDays09

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2009, 08:12:56 AM »
Quote
I imagine my relationships with my DIL's as kind of a sorority. I imagine it would be a kind of a bonding process due to the understanding boys will be boys and men will be men.  A DIL's Mother can't know the insight you might have with her Husband nor help her like you could as a MIL.
 

   I had thought about this!  DIL and I did share being the "new kid on the block" as far as being dils go.  Women are the more nurturing, intuitive types and I thought we shared that.  I would tease about "well, don't expect HIM to ever shovel the snow"  It was a true statement.  Half joking.  Even tried at times to speak to her about issues son/mother/family had in the past that were still being dealt with by him and she ran downstairs, tells son we were talking about him and he would come up the stairs swinging.  It was bad.  Then she took off out the back door into her car and left??!! 
  I was to explain to him it wasn't like what ever she may have said it was.  Why was there all this bad attitude and nastiness coming from? The ANGER? That was the first - AND LAST - time he yelled at me in my home.  The home that was the safe, protection spot for most of his life.  He never apologized and I feel that was the beginning of the end to my ever trusting his gf/fiance again.  (As a woman, a dil, or the mom of his s/o).
 She had an ulterior motive to start the disintegration process between him and his family.  And me foolishly trusting her enough to have a heart to heart--invited it in. 
   I loved him so much.  I think the last 13 years could testify to that.  We stood by him during so much turbulence and pain and anguish he caused to his family.  I never abandoned him.  Never turned him away.  It wasn't easy. 
   He was an alcoholic at 17.  School suffered.  Part time jobs suffered.  Coming home and parking the car up on the lawn!  Watching him come out of the bathroom at 3 am and not being able to find his way to his room. 
   The son he had with a "friend" I never was the given an opportunity to be with.  On and on.  Never gave up.  Love will win, I told myself.  Keep firm and steady.  Guide him to the right path.  It took her 35 minutes to have his life and those people that stood by him thru the Good and THE REALLY BAD removed from his heart. 
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 07:01:17 AM by HappyDays09 »

AnnieB

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2009, 10:42:56 AM »
All good points, I think you're right on on everything you pointed out.   Some of that I am aware of and have been for some time.  Some I'm figuring out as part of the process of working through all of this as I write this out, some of it is yet to be digested.   The people pleasing aspect of myself has been with me and worked on for centuries (um, well, decades) and ironically, I wrote a bit on my blog and posted it elsewhere in here yesterday I think - so spot on....

****
A little more commentary-- I know I use this board and my own blog as a journal -- so a lot of what I write is my immediate reaction to things.  Part of the processing what I go through, and I know in sharing it, I reveal myself at my rawest and open myself up to feedback.  I am grateful for insights.   Comments from others are true gifts, because I don't have enough of a mirror in my life -- one or two excellent friends who also give me feedback.  Thankful as I am for feedback, I do want to put out some kind of a caution, but I'm not even sure what I'm cautioning!  :)

Whatever I'm going through in all of this with my DIL is as much of a reflection on me as on anyone else -- and as you so aptly point out, the only one we can change is ourselves.   

I just don't want to open myself up to being analyzed by others -- maybe I need to stop posting my immediate reactions and wait til I've worked through it, but it's kind of a catch 22 -- as I write it out, I begin to work through it and figure things out.  It's all so fluid, that what I feel and so post or say one day is not what I feel and so post another.  (which is more clearly reflected in my blogging than in here).

But you are really right on with your insights!   I appreciate them, and any of the ones that made me wince will be given extra attention!!  ;D

« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 11:13:20 AM by AnnieB »

Alicev

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2009, 12:51:01 PM »
AnnieB -

:) I did not mean to come off as lecturing. (Lecturing is the first sign of aging - my mum used to say  ;D ). It is just that asking questions has helped me a lot with dealing with my own issues. That is why I asked some of the "uncomfortable" questions. Advice is the last thing I want to give. But questions like: "what does it mean to me when someone does this or that" help me discover my own beliefs and value systems. Some of which can be so distorted from reality and in fact do not serve me any good. So I think it is important to ask questions. Rather than asking "Why does some thing happen?", ask "How does a certain thing come about?" - the how part helps to identify the influence, the trigger, the chain of events so to speak. it rarely is one single thing. It often is the complex interplay.

Please do not feel discouraged from writing here as a blog. Of all the places this is where you should be able to do it. React here :D :D

Offline luise.volta

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Re: Grrrrr and OUCHHHH
« Reply #44 on: August 31, 2009, 01:06:12 PM »
I like this one: "What you think of me is none of my business!"  ;D
"Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes it's a quiet voice at the end of the day saying, I'll try again tomorrow." -- Mary Ann Radmacher