Please advise...

[themuffin]

Hello Wise Women,

   Please help me to see things from the perspective of wiser eyes.  My DS came by yesterday.  He was with out GD and FDIL, which was fine.  We were thrilled to see him and he was a joy to have around.  I asked about GD and what personality traits she's showing, what does she do (she's newborn so I didn't expect much..maybe smiles a lot...responds to his voice..little things like that. DS said all she does is eat, sleep, poop and cry. Crying and pooping in large amounts...sleeping, not so much.  According to DS she's not any fun yet, lol.  It's not easy being a parent.

So anyhoo, a little later I ask him for more pictures because I haven't seen her in a week and he's really bad at sending them.  He says, "won't you come on over."  I said that we didn't think it was a good idea after the last visit.  We weren't going to ask to come over, we were going to wait for an invitation.  We told DS that we didn't think FDIL wanted us around.....Here's the kicker....FDIL has complained that we haven't asked to come by and see the baby and thinks it's really strange that we don't want to see her!   This is the same person that threw us out just last week.

I was at a loss for words until I finally said we are danged if we do, and danged if we don't.  Please edit that if it's not appropriate to say here, but I couldn't think of any other way to express my feelings.  If we want to see the baby we are wrong and it's an issue.  If we don't ask to see the baby we're wrong and it's an issue.  I don't now what to do anymore.

HELP PLEASE!!!

[Doe]

  He says, "won't you come on over."  I said that we didn't think it was a good idea after the last visit.  We weren't going to ask to come over, we were going to wait for an invitation. 

Hey Muffin-

Isn't this an invitation from him?  You were waiting for an invitation and he gave one and you said no?  I'm not sure if I'm getting this right.

[luise.volta]

After the past experiences you have had, I would tell DS that you no longer are willing to accept any messages from FDIL from and through him. Tell him that anytime she wants to contact the two you, you will respond. I'd tell him the 'he say/she says triangulation' is over...as well as any one-on-one conversations that can be distorted later. I'd put my foot down on the craziness.

[themuffin]

I'm sorry Doe, but I'm confused too.  It was sorta a invitation, but not really...Hmmmm....how do I explain?  He did say to come over, so yes, that is an invitation.  But it only came after I mentioned that we hadn't seen her and would like pictures.  DH and I thought it best to give them space after the last visit and was waiting for an out and out invitation, something that they discussed and agreed upon so as not to cause any conflict.

I guess my confusion is that FDIL has expressed that we are strange for not asking to see her, as though she never had an issue with us seeing her.  I feel almost as though we are the neglectful grandparents, and not the grandparents who were shunned.  Do we start asking, or do we wait for an invitation? I thought we were being thoughtful of their new family by waiting to be asked over, especially after the last visit.  But instead FDIL now feels that we're not interested in seeing the baby.  I don't know what to do anymore.

[themuffin]

You are so right Luise.  I've never experienced anything like this before. And I do know that words have a way of getting distorted.  DS feels like everything is fine because of the talk we had that day.  While I believe it was helpful I know that it in no way resolved all of the issues. FDIL did not instantly begin to like and trust me because we talked for 15 mins, and I must say that I feel the same. 

[pam1]

I agree with you, TheMuffin.  She probably doesn't instantly like and trust you again, as well neither probably do you or DH instantly like and trust her.  However, the only way to do that is be in each others presence. 

I did take that as your DS inviting you, but with given what happened I understand why you might not consider that an invitation.  It would be nice if he communicated a bit clearer, as in can you come Sunday at 3?  But maybe that's not how he works?

On the other hand, I totally agree with Luise.  I would stomp my foot down on the passing messages from FDIL to you, or relaying her thoughts to you.  Either way, it's crazy making.

[lancaster lady]

Hi Muffin ,

You only have your DS word that your FDIL wants you to visit .
All this sounds so familiar to me , after my GD was born my world turned upside down .
They never came to visit me , and when I went to them they were usually out , they blamed bad weather for not
visiting , so how come they were always out at her FOO when I went there .
At one point 5 months went by without seeing my GD , so I said I wouldn't visit until I was invited .
My then FDIL eventually invited me after 6 months , at least they got the message .I felt my DS was saying
things I wanted to hear , like come anytime etc .The problem was he never informed his FDW .

If you have told them you will wait for an invitation , I feel it lets them know you want to visit , but when
they are ready and its convenient for them .
As you say , Who knows what the correct thing to do is ? I have that T shirt in every colour !

[themuffin]

Thanks LL...You understand!  It's true that I don't believe DS's sentiments are the same as FDIL.  When he said that we could go see GD that day and we explained that we had something to do and it would be too late, DS "No it won't.  Come anytime.  Her mom came by at 11:pm the other night".  I sincerely doubt that FDIL would want to see me at 11:pm.  Heck, even I wouldn't want to see someone at that time...Not even my mom...unless of course it was an emergency. 

I gotta get me a collection of those shirts! 

[Smilesback@u]

I own one of those shirts   Since trust is the cornerstone to building good relationships with anyone, doing what you say you will do builds trust.  Then life happens.  How a person handles disappointments either with condemnation and blame, or understanding and forgiveness, believing in the other's intention to do no harm, helps determine whether trust is broken or built.  It takes two.  I would figure that it might feel pretty good to your DIL to know you are pining away to visit & desparate for her approval for your visit.   If you really want to, what's the harm in letting her know that you do want to visit and need to know from her when it is good?  Nothing is as simple as it seems - just by reading how these misunderstandings and overreactions occur in families.  I think as a result of my experiences with DS/DIL, I am not so willing to follow DS/DIL down the rabbit hole into The Wonderland where all they have to do is wish it, and I make it happen.  I respect your having a life besides being a new GP.  I am thinking you are honestly needing a confirmation from DIL when a visit is agreeable with her.  WWU explains that some DS/DIL think it is a privilege given to GP to visit and babysit which is probably true, and for the most part parents are the authorities on who gets close to their family and when.  That being said, their power can be abused with ever-changing arbitrary rules.  New parents simply do not know what they are doing, and are trying to figure it all out.  It is this way one monent and then on second thought, it is that way.  I believe it is not all about us, GP, but more likely about the parents grappling with their couple issues, individual issues on being a parent and also as Adults with new relationships to their own parents.  In spite of everything, the remaining truth seems to be that life is full of changes and it is possible for GP to be a part of creating the type of relationship with GC that they want in respect to parents' wishes.  Good luck, hope this was not too convoluted.  I am in the midst of sorting out my own issues too.  Hope this helps - sending hope.     

[NewMama]

I know I've seen a lot of women here who gets stuck in that 'danged if you do, danged if you don't' place. In my own situation, I sort of needed someone to request a visit if they were feeling left out. When my DS was very small (and he's still just a toddler) I could barely get to the shower or eat, let alone think about how much time someone else was getting with us. I tried, but a lot of time would go by if someone just waited for me to invite them. A simple "we'd like to see you, what's a good time for the three of you?" worked well. That being said, DH and I are pretty good about running those requests by each other. That seems to be the biggest issue to me - when a DS doesn't talk it over with his DW and his mother gets caught in the crossfire.

Muffin, I'm in a sort of flip situation to yours - my MIL complains about not seeing my DS enough and that my DM sees him more, yet turns down family events and the open invitation we extended to drop in whenever they are in town. Beyond frustrating.

[Beth 2011]

Hi Muffin,

Sounds like she is losing control..... and evidently she is not happy about it.  Keep talking. 

[Lillycache]

Why not tell DS the simple fact that you were offended by the treatment you received at the last visit and don't want to risk being treated that way again since you don't deserve that.  Has FDIL ever offered a sincere apology for how you and your DH were treated?  I believe you are owed one.  If she refuses, let DS know that you would love for him to send pics until which time he can bring baby over to see you..  Without her. 

[themuffin]

If I haven't said it lately.....I ADORE YOU ALL!!!

It's like having a entire team of therapist who speak from wisdom and experience.  THANK YOU!

Smilesback@U- I'm afraid to communicate directly with FDIL.  No matter what I say or do she twist it around to make me seem just awful.  If I were to give her the common courtesy of asking when it would okay to visit, she would probably see it as some way of entrapment, some phony gesture just to see if I would make a fuss at the response.  Any and everything I do is suspicious to her.  I don't know why.  I do have a life besides being a GP.  But at the same time I have a very darling GD that I see daily and it's impossible for my heart to feel empty or my arms to feel bare when she's around.  Of course I have love in abundance and would love to be the same GM to DS's daughter as I am to this one, but if it doesn't work out that way I will have to accept it. 

 
Hi NewMama and congrats on being a new mama!    I remember being a new mama some years ago.  Neither sets of GPs required an invitation and they stopped by whenever they wanted.  I actually always relished the visits because they gave me a little break and because I loved sharing my beautiful creations with them.  When your baby does something cute it's so sweet, but when you are able to share that cuteness, it's even sweeter!  Unfortunately, the GP didn't seem to visit enough for me.  I would like to see GD more, but I don't really care if she see FDIL mother more.  I little time will do.  I remember when DS made a comment during one of his visits about seeing us this weekend because they spent every weekend with her mom.  DH and I thought that we liked things just as they were.  Sheesh....every weekend???!!!

Beth, it is true.  Poor little thing.  And I mean that in the most compassionate way.  She really is losing it.  She just doesn't seem to know what she wants and the more she complains and flip flops the worst she looks to DS.  I'm learning that the best way to keep the peace is to try to understand FDIL.  When she had her mini nervous break down I asked DS to please be patient with her because she just had a baby and her hormones are all over the place and it's natural.  Yesterday DS said that FDIL is a narcissist. He said he read up on it and if was her exactly. Hmmm....he saiid it, I didn't.  I offered no comment.  DS is the type to tell everything. If they ever had a fight and he called her that he'd be the first to say and "MY MOM AGREES!!!" lol They'd make up and she'd just hate me more. No siree, not me.

Lilly, DS doesn't get it.  FDIL never offered a sincere apology or any kind of apology.  She even told a lie about saying she was sorry during a telephone conversation.  It never happened.  I've been waiting for that, and I assure you I woudn't have forgotten.  I think she said it for DS's benefit.  She did apologize to my DH and I think it was sincere.  Thank you for your kind words, I don't think we deserved to be treated that way and I think I do deserve an apology.  I have apolgized to FDIL many times.  I sincerely hoped we could move on.  DS thinks that all is in the past since we talked after we were thrown out.  I'm fine with that, but what he doesn't see is that FDIL is not fine with it.  It was not resolved with her.  She is not ready or  capable of moving on.  I dont feel comfortable in her presence, I would not feel comfortable in her home, and I would feel uncomfortable holding "her' baby while she watched me.  Until then, pictures and visits without FDIL sounds great to me.

[Doe]

Hmmm - I have this feeling that waiting for a formal invitation might not produce one.  They sound confused to me.   I think I might have turned his casual 'come on over' into 'when would be a good time?' and set a date.  Maybe rather than putting down a blanket policy: " We will only come over with a formal invitation." you could just take each encounter as it comes and make sure that each one is something you are comfortable with. 

It sounds like they are not really accountable for their actions (esp FDIL) so asking them to shape up and perform common etiquette might be out of their bounds.

And right - don't let DS speak for FDIL.  I think you can do it in a way that doesn't torch things - maybe if he speaks for her, you could say something like, "let's just check with her to make sure it's ok".

[luise.volta]

Sometimes we have to revert back to our saying..."Don't try to make sense of the senseless...it can't be done." Some of us are inclined to cluttter things up with logic.