Why is it OK with DS?

[Monroe]

I used to think we had a DIL problem.  Our DIL has always been aloof to DH and me, possessive of DS, and unappreciative of gifts or other welcoming gestures from us.  She repeatedly rejected our FOO, and made it clear she doesn't want much to do with us.  But now I have decided that it is not a DIL problem at all.  It is a DS problem. 

I am not hurt by DIL's behavior, because I long ago quit expecting anything from her in the way of warmth or caring.  We are on excellent terms with DS, but DS is clearly aware of DIL's treatment of us.  DS compartmentalizes - he has a life with her, a relationship with us, but it is pretty separate. 

I find that I am hurt.  Not by DIL.  One must invest one's feelings in order to become hurt, and I invest no feelings in DIL. 

No, I find that I am hurt by DS.  DH and I go out of our way to never say an unkind word about DIL.   (Basically we just don't mention her).  Our interactions with DS are always pleasant. Because we don't want DS to feel "caught in the middle",  we say nothing about DIL's demeanor.  We don't want to be accused of making DS "choose sides." (Plus the fact that DH and I would be on the losing side.  Guaranteed.) 

So the scenario is . . .  DIL treats us shabbily.  We smile and say nothing and we all pretend.  It's like the elephant in the living room.  Everybody knows it is there - but nobody says a word. 

What's bothering me is that DS seems to be fine with DIL treating us poorly.  I recognize that he loves her and that she is first in his life, but it hurts that our adult son would think it is OK for his wife to be so rude to his FOO.  It's not that it hurts for HER to treat us that way.  What hurts is that DS tolerates his wife treating his parents that way. 

Any advice?

[luise.volta]

My advice is to get that there is no 'why' and to stop, as soon as you can, trying to make sense of the senseless. We have all come through the knot hole of fighting accepting the status quo. Why should we, for heaven sake? Because 'that's the way it is.' We have perceptions, expectations and concepts about behavior and manners; family loyalty and mature behavior. We  look for logic. We don't find any. You aren't going to find any, either. DS is grown and he is making choices. That's where he is in life. That's his option. You get to either continue being continually at the effect of that...or you get to draw a line, access your self respect and set boundaries. Each one of us here has had to address something very similar and come up with our own survival plan. It's awful and it's unfair and, as I have said, 'it's the way it is.' We don't get to vote about our adult children's choices...we do get to decide where we go from there. They don't control that...we do and...we have to face the consequences, if and when we side with our own dignity. Just my view after three years here on this forum. Sending love...

[Keys Girl]

I read somewhere that the DS has a conscious or subconscious need to take out his resentments using the DIL as the weapon.  She treats the parents poorly, he smiles and says "aren't I wonderful and I don't notice anything wrong" and he can't be held accountable because "she" is the bad guy, on the other hand a male friend of mine said he really didn't understand anything about women until his 40's.  Might be a little of both? My son has acted the same way, at times giving me this little phoney smile of "Oh, it's not me, it's her" when I was treated shabbily. 

We haven't been in touch for some time and while it's been profoundly sad to be treated with contempt and disdain, I don't miss being the object of someone's hostility, whether it's his bride or my son.

Yes, it is the elephant in the room and as I see it you don't have too many choices except to tolerate the elephant, leave the room or be shown the door.  It's a very painful set of circumstances and it's difficult to deal with the legitimate hurt at being treated badly and not having your son stop it.

I would add as much positive influence from other (new) people in your life to counterbalance the hurt, be they friends or surrogate grandchildren, etc..  Keep adding on the positives in your life to diminish the negatives and perhaps someday you'll decide what if anything you want to do about DIL and DS.

KG

[Lillycache]

I think that men have an uncanny ability to compartmentalize.  Look how they do business.  Men can be competators and then turn around and have a beer together. Men can have a knock down drag out fight with someone and then shake hands and let bygones be bygones.   Men seem to be able to handle multiple relationships by keeping them separate in their minds.  Men who cheat seem to be able to keep sex and love totally separate by telling themselves that one has nothing to do with the other. Men are wired differently.  So to me, it's not surprising at all that a DS is able to keep his wife and parents in separate compartments.

What I find disturbing is that your DS LET'S her mistreat you in his presence and shrugs it off.  BUT.. he is probabley protecting himself and his own hide.   Imagine what he would be in for if he defended you?  Imagine what his life would be like.   That happened too my son when my DIL and I had our WWlll moment.  He tried to mediate... then he fought with her and his life was H double toothpicks.  lol!!   I was flattered that he stuck up for me, but had to think of how their battle affected three little kids.  I grew up in a home with constant fighting and it hinders me in my reactions to this day.  Not good.   

Perhaps You can compartmentalize too?  Can you interact with your son without her?  Will he come to see you and continue nice visits without her there?  To me that seems like the best alternative.   I know.. I know.. that's not the best senario, but it just might be the one that works.  It's all about letting go of what "should be" and embracing "what is".  And trust me... that is dilemma we are all facing..  Letting go of expectations.

[Doe]

Hi Monroe-

Perhaps this is all your son is capable of.  Clearly, he isn't the alpha in their relationship in the area of his FOO so maybe this is all he can do.  You say he seems to be fine with the situation - have you asked him?  Maybe he's just trying to make the best of a bad situation?

You mentioned  that you are not hurt by DIL's behavior, because you quit expecting anything from her in the way of warmth or caring.    If you are acting like it's all ok, then you might be sending a confusing message to DS.

My son compartmentalizes, too. 

[Smilesback@u]

I wrote down Luise's comment to re-read when I need to.  It is so relevant and true.  I appreciate your post Lilly as I just finished a visit with DS/DIL where there were upsets.  Sending peace       

[Smilesback@u]

Monroe, excuse me, I bounced between posts and got lost.  I just found a site with ideas to decrease drama in my life you might like?  http://tinybuddha.com/blog/7-crucial-steps-to-minimize-drama-in-your-life/

[lancaster lady]

Hi Monroe ....

Is your DS aware that her treatment of you offends ?
Have you told him ?
Unless he is aware of this , how can he defend you ?
If he is aware of it , then shame on him ! He obviously isn't bothered whether you two get along or not .
Are you bothered ? Have you tried to work out your problems between you ?
It depends how much you want to get along , my DS left it to me and his DW to sort things out .
I had to , or forfeit my GD .
It sounds as if she doesn't give a hoot , ok that's fine , but bad behaviour is unacceptable in anybody's
book , do not put up with that nonsense any longer .
A chat with your DS is called for I think , tell him how you feel .
Good luck .

[pam1]

Interesting perspective, Keys Girl. I had heard that before, although it was concerning a DH letting his mother be mean to his wife.  I can see now how it can work both ways. 

Monroe, my best guess is that it is either similar to what Keys Girl wrote, DS finds some satisfaction out of it.  Or, maybe he doesn't see anything wrong with it and there are things you don't know about concerning DIL and DS.  Not that I think you are doing anything like this, but I don't accept gifts from his FOO (and they are extremely generous) because they have said "after all we've done for your two" and many other guilt trippy things.  They don't see their part and only see mine in that I'm not accepting them or their gifts.  It is, however, how I was raised and the culture I live in.  We don't accept if it is not a gift.  (I'm really not saying you're doing this, only trying to illustrate that while I have my side, my in laws have their side too)  DH is ok with it because he knows why I do not accept their gifts and finds my behavior reasonable.

On another hand, there are cultures that are taught not to accept any generous gift.  It is etiquette approved in their culture to not take it, in fact, it is an older etiquette -- lavish gifts will not be accepted.  While we do not practice that much anymore, the carry on of it has been to be suspicious of those who do offer a lot of gifts.  Not saying it's right or wrong, it's simply something I've noticed a lot of people doing.  They will not understand when someone is very generous with them. 

[Monroe]

Luise, the WHY does matter to me.  Understanding the WHY makes acceptance easier.  And I obviously have no choice but to accept the situation.

Yes, it is the elephant in the room and as I see it you don't have too many choices except to tolerate the elephant, leave the room or be shown the door.  It's a very painful set of circumstances and it's difficult to deal with the legitimate hurt at being treated badly and not having your son stop it.

I would add as much positive influence from other (new) people in your life to counterbalance the hurt, be they friends or surrogate grandchildren, etc..  Keep adding on the positives in your life to diminish the negatives and perhaps someday you'll decide what if anything you want to do about DIL and DS.

KG

Keys - I will NOT be SHOWN the door - therefore I have chosen to leave the room on many occasions when I can no longer tolerate the elephant.  Thank you for acknowledging the legitimate hurt of being treated shabbily and son failing to acknowledge or do anything about it.  I know conventional wisdom is  "let it go / don't have expectations / don't worry about why / don't say anything / they're adults, it's between them."  I get it.  But it helps to have someone acknowledge the legitimate hurt. 

I do add positive influences in my life. (If we were in the same town, I'd buy you lunch tomorrow!  )   But it still hurts that my relationship with DS has devolved into a stilted, robotic relationship, what with that darn elephant in the room. 

Lilly - thanks for your thoughts.  They live in a different city, so there really are not opportunities to have him visit without her. 

Hi Monroe-
You say he seems to be fine with the situation - have you asked him?  Maybe he's just trying to make the best of a bad situation?

You mentioned  that you are not hurt by DIL's behavior, because you quit expecting anything from her in the way of warmth or caring.    If you are acting like it's all ok, then you might be sending a confusing message to DS.

My son compartmentalizes, too. 

Doe - I have not asked him.  Nor has DH.   How can we ask him without sounding critical of DIL? 

I wouldn't say we are acting like everything is like "The Waltons"  (old TV show) - if DS were astute, he could notice a slight chill whenever DIL is around, and HE could ask US about the elephant. 

I would love to ask DS, but fear it would backfire on me, and that no matter how hard I tried, it would come out as being critical of DIL.  If it were TOTALLY DS's behavior that was the issue, we could bring it up with him.  Since this is disappointing behavior on DS's part (in the aftermath of DIL's poor behavior), we can't address his behavior without examining hers.  Therein lies the rub. 

Hi Monroe ....

Is your DS aware that her treatment of you offends ?
Have you told him ?
Unless he is aware of this , how can he defend you ?
If he is aware of it , then shame on him ! He obviously isn't bothered whether you two get along or not .
Are you bothered ? Have you tried to work out your problems between you ?. . . . . .
A chat with your DS is called for I think , tell him how you feel .
Good luck .

Lancaster - DS should be aware.  He is not a stupid man. 
No, we have not told him.  Nor have we told him that tomorrow is Saturday or that there is a Presidential election this year.  Some things are obvious to anyone who does not live in a cave. 
I am not bothered by DIL.  I am bothered that DH and  I don't matter. 
Would love to have that chat with him.  But he is a grown man, not a 5th grader, and he is too old to have his mother tell him how he should behave. 
I don't know how to address it without coming across as critical of his life partner - a role I respect even if she is a pill.   

[pam1]

Monroe, I think posters are only trying to help you with their experiences.  Remember, "take what you need and leave the rest."

[Monroe]

Monroe, I think posters are only trying to help you with their experiences.  Remember, "take what you need and leave the rest."

Pam - I agree posters are helping me with their experiences.  Who said differently? 
I responded to good questions they were asking - so I don't get your issue.

[luise.volta]

My take is that the 'whys' are important to all of us. They are often tricky, however, because we actually make them up. And they often change from day to day. Cut and dried, black and white whys are probably few and far between. For me, acceptance is to move past why. I doubt if very many of us would even be posting here is we only knew why. Then it would make sense and we could accept it and move on. Accepting what doesn't make sense and moivng on is the challenge. Sending love...

[foofoo]

My question to you is what is he going to do about it?

You see, I have the opposite problem.  My inlaws treat me horribly.  Actually, after six years of marriage and three children, my mil has yet to speak to me (not even hello), she just glares and looks away, pretending I don't exist.   It used to upset me that Dh did not do anything about it, but then I realized, what is he going to do?  Yell at his mother? What is that going accomplish?  It is just going to make the situation worse.  So, he keeps trying to get me go over to visit and I refuse cause she is just going to be rude to me anyone.  Why subject myself to that?

If we look at your situation, your DIL is rude to you.  Not straight up abusive, but just rude.  Say he calls her on it and says, why did you ignore my mother?  She then gets defensive and is then angry at him as well as you.  How has that improved the situation?  If anything it will just make it worse.

[luise.volta]

f - I changed some of your language. It may be time for you to reread the Forum Agreement...on the Home Page under 'Open Me First.')  I set it up the way when I started WWU because I just didn't know where to draw the line otherwise. Thanks for understanding and adapting.