Author Topic: Things Never Stay the Same  (Read 4083 times)

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cremebrulee

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Things Never Stay the Same
« on: March 26, 2010, 11:02:16 AM »
While reading another thread, well, it prompted me to open this for discussion.

I've read so many women, including my own posts who write....
before my son got married, we had such a close and working relationship....

and we all did...however, what I failed to understand for such a long time is

Things change...when our son's take wives...they will change, we will never know them as we
did before they were married.  Why, B/c they've taken wives who should be first and foremost in they're lives now...

It's difficult for mother's to accept that, we feel, when our son's marry, we shouldn't have to change, at all....but unfortunately we do...otherwise, there will be trouble....

first we must realize, our son's have brought a whole new culture into our culture...she is not going to think and feel and believe like we do, b/c she was not raised by us, and she'd going to have a whole different. set of rules, beliefs...personal convictions...etc.

It would be like inviting a person of a different country to come and live with us...we would all clash at first until we learned each other's culture and traditions....

our son's will always love us, but never like when they were young....they have a wife now, who is first and foremost in his life...our job is over and her's is just beginning.  Yes, she is his confidant...his mother, his wife, his partner, his compantion, his everything...we are no longer needed to fulfill his needs and we must go with that change...

I really believe and I say this b/c I lived it...that we mother's have a hard time letting them go and understanding that...we forget, that this is not just our son's household, but our DIL's household as well, and we owe it to them both to respect that....but more so, understand that, without feeling rejected or threatened by our DIL's. 

I had a lot of growing up to do, and it took me 12 years to do it...and I know, this is a very sensitive and difficult, disheartening time of our lives...however, I also know, that when you give it up things start to change.  It's totally changing our own attitudes, b/c believe you me, once two women get off on the wrong foot, everything unfortunately escalates from there....and I think it's very important also to discuss perspectives...especially when it comes to women, we so see things differently...and tend to assume way to much...

please know, I say these things respectfully and only from my experience....but I do so think it is so worth discussing....

I believe we are here to learn, and while our problems are very valid, we still need to self examine if we are going to better the situation....and I believe in most cases, not all, we can better the situation...but it takes a lot of learning, hard work and ownership, as well as understanding, compassion and a willingness to listen. 

So has anyone picked up the book, Gifts of the Sea and read it?

I really wish all of you would...it's a very quick and easy read, but loaded with a whole lot of insight, which we all could take advantage of....

I'm not here to say anyone is wrong...I'm here to listen and share...and I hope change, which will be sucha an asset to all of us....

So, what do you all think?

Creme

« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 11:04:42 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 11:58:50 AM »
While reading another thread, well, it prompted me to open this for discussion.

I've read so many women, including my own posts who write....
before my son got married, we had such a close and working relationship....

and we all did...however, what I failed to understand for such a long time is

Things change...when our son's take wives...they will change, we will never know them as we
did before they were married.  Why, B/c they've taken wives who should be first and foremost in they're lives now...

It's difficult for mother's to accept that, we feel, when our son's marry, we shouldn't have to change, at all....but unfortunately we do...otherwise, there will be trouble....

first we must realize, our son's have brought a whole new culture into our culture...she is not going to think and feel and believe like we do, b/c she was not raised by us, and she'd going to have a whole different. set of rules, beliefs...personal convictions...etc.

It would be like inviting a person of a different country to come and live with us...we would all clash at first until we learned each other's culture and traditions....

our son's will always love us, but never like when they were young....they have a wife now, who is first and foremost in his life...our job is over and her's is just beginning.  Yes, she is his confidant...his mother, his wife, his partner, his compantion, his everything...we are no longer needed to fulfill his needs and we must go with that change...

I really believe and I say this b/c I lived it...that we mother's have a hard time letting them go and understanding that...we forget, that this is not just our son's household, but our DIL's household as well, and we owe it to them both to respect that....but more so, understand that, without feeling rejected or threatened by our DIL's. 

I had a lot of growing up to do, and it took me 12 years to do it...and I know, this is a very sensitive and difficult, disheartening time of our lives...however, I also know, that when you give it up things start to change.  It's totally changing our own attitudes, b/c believe you me, once two women get off on the wrong foot, everything unfortunately escalates from there....and I think it's very important also to discuss perspectives...especially when it comes to women, we so see things differently...and tend to assume way to much...

please know, I say these things respectfully and only from my experience....but I do so think it is so worth discussing....

I believe we are here to learn, and while our problems are very valid, we still need to self examine if we are going to better the situation....and I believe in most cases, not all, we can better the situation...but it takes a lot of learning, hard work and ownership, as well as understanding, compassion and a willingness to listen. 

So has anyone picked up the book, Gifts of the Sea and read it?

I really wish all of you would...it's a very quick and easy read, but loaded with a whole lot of insight, which we all could take advantage of....

I'm not here to say anyone is wrong...I'm here to listen and share...and I hope change, which will be sucha an asset to all of us....

So, what do you all think?

Creme

Creme,
I appreciate your thoughts, I really do.  I understand things change but some of us have done nothing wrong to deserve this kind of treatment.  I'm sure there are some who have done something but "something" doesn't give anyone the right to treat others with the kind of disrespect that's been heaped on us.

We're people, not some kind of human trash basket to use when someone gets full of garbage.  I feel that that has been done to us, my husband and myself.  I know the boys don't need me and want me the same as they once did.  I never expectected they would.

I'm personally thrilled for you that your DIL and son have made contact with you. It is a blessing.  Mine have systematically worked to cause horrible damage between brothers, kids, Mothers and Fathers.  Deliberately hurting the other one so much that no repair is possible now.

It is beyond heartbreaking to me and totally uncalled for.  I look at the work I've put in into their lives, buying, babysitting, loving, caring, counseling, giving, you name it and it's been all for nothing.  Never there when the chips are down, never there for anything except more giving and all the things listed above.

If there was one single ounce of anything to hold on to, I'd stand on my eyelashes to welcome them back.  One had to extracate the son from us in order to control him....a sorry sight to see.  The other, though done with fine kids gloves, did it in a more lethal way with kindness and pretend devotion to us.  Then, you look around and what she did was treat her husband's brother like a dog and his wife, worse.

It leaves us with nowhere to turn, nowhere to be.  If we are with the lethal one, it leaves our other son and his kids out of the picture because both cannot be in the equation.  She is only interested in her 5 family members, just them, her husband, her dies only.  No room for others.

She was doted on by her parents, spoiled to the bone.  Now, she's teaching her own kids that all that matters is money.  They have spoken about that.  A hard thing to hear from your grandchild.  "Money is all that matters".

I might remind all of you reading this that Christmas before last, she relented and said she'd visit our son and DIL in their home the day after Christmas.  She spent the entire time taking her kids horseback riding, leaving 3 little boys, not her kids, in the house to watch their cousins leave to go.  The heartlessness of that leaves you speachless, or at least it did me.

I never expected anything special but I did expect to be accepted and loved as the Mother of their husbands.  This has been a long hard road for me and it has made me so sick in the meantime.  Each year, I get worse.  All I ever asked was for a family and that is the one thing denied me.

Yet their Mothers, one a reformed alcoholic and the other, the town gossip, the table whisperer, gets the royal treatment.  It's not fair but I know life isn't fair.  Far from it.  I never expected to be wined and dined and then uncermoniously dumped, all the while making life unbearable for another son and his wife.  I'm like a 7 year old who just lost their Mother...I don't know where to turn anymore.  I'm just watching my life drift away.  These things do kill. 

I understand all your points and I do appreciate them but some of us are at our breaking points, like me.  I know that evverything will work out beautifully for you.  I wish you the best.  :)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 12:01:55 PM by 2chickiebaby »

cocobars

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 01:03:02 PM »
I'm sorry Chickie.  Your situation is so parallel to Luise's and I agree with her perception that sometimes there just isn't a solution, except to move on and remember that you had a happy life before you had children, trying your best to find that life again.  It sounds sad at first, but dwelling on "what should be," can hurt (and maybe kill as you said), while thinking about your possibilities may open doors for you to come to grips with reality and move on to be that happy person again.  And I've seen that happy woman come out.  She's awsome!


2chickiebaby

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 01:12:57 PM »
thank you, it's just so hard. 

cocobars

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2010, 01:18:48 PM »
I know that too.  YOU are awesome, Chickie.  Too awesome for the treatment you are getting.  I hope you see that and lean on your wonderful husband!  He is still there in your own future and I envy you.  Did you know that?  I don't think I ever had a husband who truly loved me and I've had two.  I am satisfied without my husband and have learned to look at me for happiness now.  I believe you can find that with his help.  God gave you a companion who loves you and will be there with you for the rest of your life.  Our children grow up and have no need for us anymore, but a spouse like yours is golden and will be a part of your life always.  I do understand your feelings about your DIL.  I also agree more than I probably should put into words.  And, I wish I could be there to hug you in person!  I believe you need a hug - a real one.  Can you ask your hubby to give you one for me?

2chickiebaby

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 01:31:08 PM »
thankyou again, Coco....I appreciate it so much.  Two DILs who have caused terrible damage is so hard on my heart! I do appreciate my husband.

jkm426

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2010, 08:38:16 PM »
No things don't stay the same....but, one love doesn't replace another.  Does one stop loving one child when another is born?  Of course not.  You heart expands to love more.  The more people who are added to your family the more your heart grows.  A love for a wife never replaces a love for a mother.  No one would ever suggest a woman not confide in her mom because she has a husband.  No one would ever suggest she stop being "daddy's girl" because she has a husband.  It should never be suggested by word or deed that a man's mother is any less valuable than a woman's.

A marriage of one's son should never be about forgetting his FOO, but about adding his spouse to it and him to hers.  I didn't stop worrying about, caring about or loving my oldest son when he got married.  I didn't stop worrying about, caring about of loving my daughter when she married.  I don't intend to stop worrying about, caring about my younger son because he is getting married.

My children's marriages meant to me I got bonus children in my wonderful DIL and my fun loving SIL.  If my FDIL doesn't want to be added to this...well, that is her problem and loss, not mine. 
Just my .02.

Offline Pen

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2010, 12:02:37 AM »
Creme, I know you are coming from a place of love and just want the best for us. It surely would help if we could accept the way things are now and move on. I agree that nothing stays the same, but sometimes we get hit with unneccesary, sudden changes that aren't part of the natural progression of life; when they're created by a third party (DIL) who has no interest in us, it's hurtful.

We've been wonderful ILs, but since she can't stand anything about us it doesn't matter. Apparently we were supposed to spawn DS and go downstream (or is it upstream?) to die.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2010, 03:35:52 AM »
Yes, I am coming from a place of love...I know that it can't be in some cases, but I would like for everyone to settle they're differences with they're families...families are just that, and shouldn't have problems in them...or people not talking  to each other...

Relationships with family are the most emotionally intense.  The bonds between adult family members are the highest level of attachment, affection and commitment.  When serious problems emerge within family members intense postive emiotional investment can be turned into intense negative  energy very quickly...

So, I decided for the first time in all these years...I wanted badly a relationship with my son, DIL and GD.  So what was more important, having that relationship or being right?

It didn't matter to me anymore, who was right or  wrong, what mattered most was, all this time we were missing...I had to do something...

So what I did was listen to my son, instead of defending my postion....for the first time, I wanted to learn  what it was that was bothering/hurting my DIL.   Yes, some of those things were small things...however, they were not small to her...just like the things she did, she considered large, were small to me...and I realized for the first time....that if she were what my son said she was, that I was loosing out on knowing her.  I realized, that under these unfortunate circumstances, people react to rejection differently...and the monsters come out in all of us...I realized, that she might be hurting just as much as I was....

I decided to write her a letter...one of which was different from the letter written here in this forum to DIL...I put myself in place of that DIL and wondered how I'd feel if someone wrote me that letter making demands...I listened to all of you here telling your stories...and while valid...I realized, through a lot of soul searching, that I had to try, I had to listen to her side...

So I wrote her taking ownership explaining to her, that everyone's perceptions of a situation are different...everyone....you take a traffic accident...when an officer walks around getting witness reports, every report is different...why?  As time goes by, say a day or two, you go back and ask those same people to testify again, once again perceptions change...

Once I took ownership and stop pointing fingers at my DIL...and I for the first time, WANTED to listen to her...I could not believe the things I had done that hurt her...I even thought, How dare I go into her home, her sanctuary and do those things...I wouldn't do that if I was visiting someone else's home...why would I do it in HER home?

Son's grow up...they become adults, and no longer need our nurturing....they take a wife and that woman now becomes his mother, his confident, his everything.  Does he love us any less....no...however she is now his priority because he loves her as a wife...he will protect her even if she is wrong...because we raised our boys to be loyal.
And I wouldn't expect anything less. When I look back to when I first became a wife...I felt lost, scared...his family was so overwhelming...and suddenly, I had to become a part of they're traditions...I wasn't allowed to make my own...with my husband and son...everything had to evlove around them...it wasn't fair...my MIL was a powerful woman...controlling, and I realize,  we are all somewhat controlling, some of us, more then others...

So, what I'm saying is...yes, things change extremely, and that is where the word allowance comes in...are we willing to allow our son's they're time in life?  Or do we take offense, b/c they don't call us as much anymore, or don't confide in us any longer...or are we going to understand, they now have a whole new life...a new confident and companion...and we must take a back step a little to allow them to enjoy life with that new woman.

I sometimes feel very disloyal to all you, and actually feel guilty and sad, b/c I am now getting along with my DIL...there are no giant steps by any means...this is all going to take a lot of hard work on my part...I'm letting go of the past...what happened in the past doesn't matter any more, what matters is, that I have some kind of contact with her...I do love her...b/c my son loves her...and I value his opinion, right or wrong...he has many reasons for his feelings and I must respect those feelings....and hers as well.  He has changed extremely, b/c he's living with a woman outside of my own families traditions...and that's ok...she and he together are making they're own traditons, as it should be...and I have no expectations....

I suppose it's easier for me, because I've been kind of a hermit all my life...I don't need people or depend on them for happiness...I entertain my self, go away on vactaions on my own...I don't depend on anyone...and perhaps that is also what helped me see these things...

But if I can let go of my pride, and submit...let go of thnings that happened in the past...well, I can't explain it to any of you, it's like a brand new awakening...I've awakened in a different world, a different life, with different views....and I guess it's because I dropped my pride and listened and took ownership for my own behavior...right or wrong, it no longer mattered....and our DIL's know, and feel and hurt, just as we do....

I know they're are extenuating circumstances...and things that cannot be fixed...however, I don't believe that...I believe there isn't any disagreement that can't be fixed, however it takes two very wanting  people who are willing to drop they're pride, and they're insatious desire to be right and say, yanno, I could be wrong...

I'm not saying our son's love us less....however they love they're wives more in a very different way...and that is the way it should be...they still remember, they still love us, but, it became time for them to move on....onward and upward...and that is very hard to understand....we expecct them to stay the same, for things to stay the same, and when they decline our invitations to dineners, we take it as a personal attack...when all they want to do, is weither be alone together with they're family or go somewhere else...and our son's are happy to try things out of the traditions we raised them up to believe in...

I'm only trying to help others see...and I've listened to the DIL who come in here and how they feel without taking offense...and once you can do that, your perspectives change.  I've seen DIL's come in here and post they're true feelings...some are off the wall, however, some are valid, but our prides refuse to listen to them and see they're points of view...and we attack them right away...and that isn't how we're going to learn....we must listen to them and discuss the issue...instead of being appauled that they've had the nerve to come into our little haven and post they're points of view....How dare they?  Well, I say, we need to listen and not take what they say as a person attack, but really listen if we want to progress, cause if we can get over that human insttinct to want to defend ourselves, we can now begin to listen.  And Learn...

I'm sorry there are so many errors, however, when I type, something happens in the box and I can't see what I'm typing...I also want to say...that I am sorry that I am getting along with my DIL, Well, I'm not sorry, however, I feel guilty when I come in here, b/c now some of you may view me as not one of you...it makes me feel guilty...like I shouldn't be here....well, maybe I shouldn't....but what I started wanting to do was thi8s...I decided, I didn't want to c omplain or gtell my stories any longer...I wanted it to end...I was sick of it, and if it were going to end, I had to change my attitude...and feelings about the entire thing....I was the one who was going to have to change this...and I also learned, that I wasn't always right...I did wrong things to....that I refused to acknowledge....again...forgiveness has to be real and a wanton so bad...your willing to change your perspectives and listen...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 03:41:10 AM by cremebrulee »

cremebrulee

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2010, 03:54:45 AM »
another thing I want to project....when my son fought with me over this, I was hurt beyond belief...I was the mother, the adult, and for all those years, right or wrong, my son listened to me, b/c he had to, b/c he was a child...I wasn't always right, but I did the best that I could do at the time mentally...however, doesn't mean he always agreed with me...he knew he had to....so now, he becomes an adult, he goes off into the world to make his own choices and his own decissions...but I still expect him to listen to my advice...and take it...well, he's not going to, especially when there is another human being in his life, who he loves as a wife...he is going to point blankly tell me, that is not the way they do things....

Some people love they're parents to go on vacations with them...others do not...others want they're immediate families to enjoy this vacation on they're own...it's not b/c they hate us...it's because they want this to be they're time...


They don't think and feel like we do...anymore....I've observed working relationships between DIL's and  MIL's...and I've seen how mothers take a back step understanding that they're sons are now adults...

they don't want our advice....they don't want our opinions....no matter how much we've done for them or do for them...and I relized, I cannot expect my son to feel that I am right...what I feel is right for me, isn't right for him...I realized, I learned by making my own mistakes...some very unfortunate mistakes with lifetime consequences, but that is life...it's all in how we each perceive....

Love is unconditional...it means, we allow, and  it is a love that God meant us to know...but loving someone  isn't always easy, loving someone sometimes means loving them when it's  so  darn hard to...regardless of who is right or wrong...and that is what it  boils down to, which is more important, wining, or steping back and allowing, and inside knowing your right, but letting them go forward and do they're own thing...live they're lives...regardless and supporting they're decissions, even though we feel they may get hurt or may make a mistake. 

Our son's don't forget us, however, they grow up and move on...and that is the way it is...nature is part of life, and so is change...

In understanding these things, I've not only gained my son's respect back, but also my DIL's, and I know realize, this is they're life...together...and I won't take anything personal if they decided to do something that I don't think they should do...I'll respect they're decission...b/c it's not about me, it's about them...who they are togethr as a couple....

Chickie, I felt like I did nothing wrong, and said it many times on other forums...however, from my perspective, I didn't do anything wrong, but when I really started listening to my DIL's point of view...I realized, I had...something I said, which was not intended to be taken that way...something she did, which she didn't mean to hurt, me, she was just being herself, as I was being myself.  Something happened in the very beginning, she thought I was jealous that she took my son away...I thought she was jealous of me....well, we were both wrong, what happened was our ideas of how things are done, clashed...and escalated from there, and from that point on, there was nothing both of us could do to help each other realize, that we were just being ourselves...and I  also had to realize, this was her house, not my son's home...meaning...while my son lives there, so does she, and she does not think and feel like my son...it didn't give me any right to walk into her home and do things as I normally did...

We women can be really mean spirited when we think and believe someone doesn't like us...and I'm not saying, my situation is like everyone elses....however, what I am saying is, when we are able to drop the hurt, anger and try to view things from a whole different perspective, things do change, why?  Because our attitudes have changed. 

When I read some of the DIL's stories, I was so thankful that I was not like they're mols...however, my DIL perceived me to be...and I had to change that...and I fouond a way....and it was sincere....

I hope and pray for all of you...that you will not take my words as an insault or now look at me as an outsider...however, I am not going to agree when I feel, some of you are wrong...and I'm going to try like anything to help you see where I was...right there with you all....I want peace for all of you...and goodness....
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 04:17:44 AM by cremebrulee »

cocobars

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 04:17:27 AM »
Hi Creme.  I don't think anyone is upset that you are getting along with your DIL.  I see that as a huge step and one to be proud of, for you.  I think that you took steps that were right in your own situation and found a common ground to work from.  I also believe you will continue to put your own efforts out there to meet your DS and DIL on their terms.  That's a wonderful thing.

I guess what I'm getting from all of this, is that your have leaned toward listening to only what the DIL is saying.  That is great, but I also have to say that without that same effort being returned, it's a mute point.  I have been eager to welcome DIL's on this site and believe they play a very important part in our healing here, as well as we do for them.  I think when the DIL's come through that upsets the women here, there are usually signs that they are not what they appear, or red flags that are seen by the other women, and personally speaking, I don't want to invite trouble.  I know the moderator can always kick them out, but in the process their exposure can also create a divided site which is not productive here.  I did see that happen about a month ago, and after giving my opinion, I simply opted out of the conversations.  I'm not saying there was no purpose to them.  Just that I saw what it was doing to the other women here and didn't participate after seeing that.  There are some who just are not a fit here.  Just as there are DIL's out there who are not going to make the efforts yours seems to be making to accept her husbands family.

The relationships I have that I believe are healthy, are two sided.  In other words both people make the effort in that situation to be understanding - not just understood.  There are so many facets to family relationships to consider, but I believe everyone is in agreement (at least from my observations) that when their sons get married the dynamics change.  That doesn't have to mean being treated as "less than," which I think is unhealthy.

So I am accepting your situation personally, and do believe it is a good thing for you and I am truly happy you are working things out in a positive way.  I just don't think that way is the only way for some of us.  I know I seem to have a good relationship with my DIL now.  Again, alot of dynamics are at play, but my situation is different and not everyone would be able to work on it.  I am considerate and understanding, but I can promise you that if I was not considered in return, it wouldn't work.  I don't offer my opinions to my DIL and really don't want to know about "their" relationship.  It's their marriage, not mine.

Anyway, I believe everyone here is happy for you, but I also believe it's healthy to consider everyone's feelings and views.  Not just the views of DIL's.  Isn't that what we are here for?


cremebrulee

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2010, 04:20:49 AM »
Hi Creme.  I don't think anyone is upset that you are getting along with your DIL.  I see that as a huge step and one to be proud of, for you.  I think that you took steps that were right in your own situation and found a common ground to work from.  I also believe you will continue to put your own efforts out there to meet your DS and DIL on their terms.  That's a wonderful thing.

I guess what I'm getting from all of this, is that your have leaned toward listening to only what the DIL is saying.  That is great, but I also have to say that without that same effort being returned, it's a mute point.  I have been eager to welcome DIL's on this site and believe they play a very important part in our healing here, as well as we do for them.  I think when the DIL's come through that upsets the women here, there are usually signs that they are not what they appear, or red flags that are seen by the other women, and personally speaking, I don't want to invite trouble.  I know the moderator can always kick them out, but in the process their exposure can also create a divided site which is not productive here.  I did see that happen about a month ago, and after giving my opinion, I simply opted out of the conversations.  I'm not saying there was no purpose to them.  Just that I saw what it was doing to the other women here and didn't participate after seeing that.  There are some who just are not a fit here.  Just as there are DIL's out there who are not going to make the efforts yours seems to be making to accept her husbands family.

The relationships I have that I believe are healthy, are two sided.  In other words both people make the effort in that situation to be understanding - not just understood.  There are so many facets to family relationships to consider, but I believe everyone is in agreement (at least from my observations) that when their sons get married the dynamics change.  That doesn't have to mean being treated as "less than," which I think is unhealthy.

So I am accepting your situation personally, and do believe it is a good thing for you and I am truly happy you are working things out in a positive way.  I just don't think that way is the only way for some of us.  I know I seem to have a good relationship with my DIL now.  Again, alot of dynamics are at play, but my situation is different and not everyone would be able to work on it.  I am considerate and understanding, but I can promise you that if I was not considered in return, it wouldn't work.  I don't offer my opinions to my DIL and really don't want to know about "their" relationship.  It's their marriage, not mine.

Anyway, I believe everyone here is happy for you, but I also believe it's healthy to consider everyone's feelings and views.  Not just the views of DIL's.  Isn't that what we are here for?

Coco, I do understnad, that my situation isn't like everyone elses....and I do consider eveyrone else's views and feelings...and that they can't all be like mine...and yes, your right, I do understand we have to consider everyone's feelings, I'm not saying we shouldn't....and I believe by now, you all know me well enough to know, that I'm not debating that point of view....

I totally understand coco, more then you may know...I'm simply throwing some ideas out there that we may be able to practice...even if, we know our personal situation isn't going to change...however, it sure made me feel better inside when I changed my attitude and started to forgive...

I can't wave a magic wand and make everything better for everyone here, I really really wish I could...I do....

Coco, you said this

So I am accepting your situation personally, and do believe it is a good thing for you and I am truly happy you are working things out in a positive way.  I just don't think that way is the only way for some of us.  I know I seem to have a good relationship with my DIL now.  Again, alot of dynamics are at play, but my situation is different and not everyone would be able to work on it.  I am considerate and understanding, but I can promise you that if I was not considered in return, it wouldn't work.  I don't offer my opinions to my DIL and really don't want to know about "their" relationship.  It's their marriage, not mine.

and that is exactly what I'm trying to project, but it's not coming our right...however, I also believe, that some how, some way, we've got to give peace a chance, all of us...and let things go, and try to understand...

« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 04:27:50 AM by cremebrulee »

2chickiebaby

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2010, 04:30:07 AM »
I understand where you're coming from, Creme....I really do.  Unlike you, I see my DILs, both of them on a semi-regularly basis.  One DIL, I devoted my time, my heart, my life to.  She is a vampire in the worst way, a user, manipulator who turned her husband against his brother and his wife.  Heartbreaking!

We have 2 different stories, you and I....very different.  I see the other DIL too and feel desperately sorry for her that she has had to endure the wrath of the DIL I once called CDIL.  Far from being innocent, DDIL did not deserve being systematically pushed out of our family to make CDIL the supreme allied commander.

Don't feel badly about telling us your victories.  I for one and thrilled for you.  My stories are ones where it would likely be best if we didn't see them both at all.  I will not have that but I could just as easily turn that way if this behavior continues.

I see the way good families behave and it's not like this.  We were far better parents than some we know who have loving and considerate grown kids. 

As far as the DILs who have come here....they have, for the most part been so kind and curious and dearly wanting to understand what is going on in the new families they are inheriting.  Some though, have come in only to tell us off.  That, we don't need.  We are hurt enough.  They have been few, about 2 and they're gone now. 

I want to hear what they have to say.  They present a different view that I so desperately need to hear.  When it is said in love, it is received in love.

Again, my congratulations to you......sometimes I think you're lucky.  We see ours and you have not.  You can start this journey again and don't have to see it daily.  Many blessings.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 04:36:16 AM by 2chickiebaby »

cremebrulee

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2010, 04:58:28 AM »
2chickiebaby

Thank you for coming in, and I do understand  where your coming from and your situation, I'm not saying that everything I'm saying is applicable to everyone's situation....I understand your situation...however, there are situations that can be  fixed...and due to my own situation, I actually started to tell myself, over and over again, that some of these issues are really silly...mine, not yours...but they escalated..and I honestly believed, my DIL was a terrible person, but she isn't. 

As far as the DIL's coming in her, I know some of us view them as telling us off...but maybe, just maybe they are not...maybe they are scared beyond belief...not all, but some, and trying to re-interate a different perspective but using a wall of anger, due to they're own situations...granted, it's not right, but if we could view them in that way, instead of taking it that they are personally attacking us, we'd make some ground....what they might be doing is interjecting they're own feelings into the situation, but do it with hostility...again, not the right way...but if we listen, maybe we could all gain something....yes, there are some DIL's who come thru who are mean spirited and just looking to start trouble...however, I believe and maybe I'm naive, that some of them just do not know how to explain themselves in written words, so they're voices in they're words come off angry or attacking when it isn't meant that way....all I'm saying is, lets try and weed them out....not all of them are coming in here to start trouble...

and Chickie, I'm very very sorry this has happened to you, please know, I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's situation...or say, it's your fault....I'm not....I just hope somehow, someway, someone sees what I'm trying to interject...I know it seems like I've taken the other side....

Here is an example...when my DIL was born, the first thing I said to him was...when you take her to Disney for the first time, please let me go along....I wanted to be there...it was fulfilling my dream...however, I know, he knew, his wife wouldn't like that, as it was they're first time with they're child and she wanted to experience that between just them...I can certainly  understand that, b/c I remember feeling the same way when my MIL wanted to come along on our first trip to Disney with my son...I didn't dislike her, I just wanted to do this vacation without her...she was controlling and I knew she would want to do and experience things I didn't want to do, and if they were paying for it, I would have to do they're bidding...

Smae thing with going on a bus trip...I hate it, it is so schedule regimented...I like a relaxing vacation, with no clocks, no TV, no computer....just relax and read and explore at my own leisure...I don't go to dinner when I think it's time...sometimes I ate once a day....but if  I'd share that vacation with someone, I would have to c comply to they're way of doing things, and I don't want to....if I'm paying for a vacation, I want to enjoy it my way...not they're way

and that is just another example of the differences and how people view things...I guess b/c I had a controlling MIL, who was Strong willed, like me...I can now relate that to my DIL?

I am controlling b/c I've lived basically alone all my life, and used to doing things my way....we're all controlling to some degree...

I am astonished how nice my DIL is to me now, and what Coco said about respect is very true, it couldn't happen without two people involved....two people have to want to do it together....however, when I wrote her that letter, I had no expecations...and I vowed, I would again write her from time to time...even if she didn't answer, and I would continue to send her birthday cards...regardless of the outcome...but to my surprise, she wanted it to...and it was by my words and ownership of the situation that she to listened...we were both surprised at how we took each other's actions and it was humbling....

Im' very sorry if anyone thinks I'm being indifferent or against them....I'm not...I would just really like to discuss these  situations, as a group...for instance, take one situation that happened to someone and view it from all perspectives....to consider DIL's feelings...it's not about being right or wrong, it's about how someone thinks and feels, and while we may not believe we did anything to hurt anyone's feelings, we all do that many times in our lives, without thinking, someone at work is hurt by what we say, but we never realize it, b/c they never said anything....however, I know, I've hurt others, without even realizing it...we all do...and I've been hurt by others, but they didn't intend to hurt me, they just made a comment that wasn't even related to me, however, I took it personal.

and I will see this journey with my DIL every single day...it's still there, I will constantly have to realize, that what she is doing is nothing against me, it's just the way she is...and when that happens, things are not taken personal....

we made a pact, that if each one of us says anyting, that hurts the other, we're going to address it right then and there, that in itself is going to be a work in progress, b/c if and when my turn comes, and she points out something that hurts me, it's the way I address it, that is goin to make all the difference...if I take offense, and start getting defensive, then all will be lost....if I listen to her, and tell her, nicely, warmly and sincerely....I didn't mean to hurt you, I'm sorry, or I didn't mean it like that, I will try harder to consider your feelings...do you see what I'm saying?  If I don't change my attitude, things could be right where we started, and I guess I've learned my lesson...my kids live far away, and I'm not about to say anything or do antying any more to jeaprodize feelings or seeing them....even if I feel I'm right, she is not viewing it that way, doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, means it is hurting her, so I'm going to stop hurting her....whatever it takes.



« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:10:31 AM by cremebrulee »

cremebrulee

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Re: Things Never Stay the Same
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2010, 05:21:07 AM »
Heres something else I want to project...one of my counselors/advisor's said...
"this is like a love triangle, two women fighting over one man"....my first reaction was ewwwww....I don't want my son to feel like that...but he was...more then anything else, our son's want our approval, and when we interject negativity, that in itself is saying to them we don't approve.  Hence the only thing for them to do is distance themselves from us...they don't want to, but they don't want to fight about it, and for everything we say to them, human instinct tells them to go back to  they're wives and ask them about that situation...which she say differently or perceived differently...she gets defensive, hurt and feels like he's saying she is lieing, or she  is wrong...or he is siding with me...I've been there with my MIL, and that feeling is God Awful...I felt like he was siding with her...so what to do?  I decided, he needs to side with his wife, and if anything was going to change it had to be me....I'm not saying she  was wrong and I  was right, or visa versa...what I'm saying is, it escallated beyond normal...and I was being very immature...so, how in the world could they respect me...as long as I had to be right?  This wasn't just about my feelings and hurt, it was about his...hers, my GD...all of us were loosing out so much....

 I cannot even begin to imagine the pain my son was going thru over this, he was caught between us...when trying to give me his wife's point of view...I took it like he thought I was lieing...not trying to make me understand how she was taking things...and when he tried to interject my point of view to his wife, she was so  hurt, she thought he was trying to say, your wrong, and taking my side, he wasn't, he wasn't taking sides, he was trying desperately to make us both see we were wrong about each other...and then to hear, they did go to counseling b/c of me, I was hurt beyond words....it was the strain this was putting on they're marriage...not me, but the strain that was killing them...I didn't want to be responsible for that....I wanted happiness for them, so I finally decided I had to do someting to correct this...can you understand the strain this correction would take off of him....it was my responsiblity to let them alone...let them live and enjoy they're life, the way the two of them agreed upon mutually, withou my input or interferance...

I wanted to get to know DIL...I don't really even know here....12 years is a long time, and I bleieve we both matured...we both learned someting from this, the hard way...at everyone's expense. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 05:26:16 AM by cremebrulee »