WiseWomenUnite.com

The post from Erma about "I Believe" made me think that some of us might enjoy compiling a gratitude list now that Thanksgiving is getting close. Please feel free to add to it any time you might feel grateful for something or someone. Here's a start:

I'm grateful that I am healthy and well.
I'm grateful that my hubby and pup are healthy and well.
I'm grateful that I have a safe, warm and comfortable place to live and good, healthy food to nurture me.
I'm grateful for my family, my extended family and my virtual family. (WWU)
I'm grateful for my two Websites and my Web-work.
I'm grateful that I am able to feel grateful.

I just want to say here that I have attempted to create a "You and Me" Web-forum. Once, last spring, when I collapsed after eleven years of care giving and was unable to monitor our site, criticism started between some of the MILs and the DILs and it quickly escalated into a "You or Me" site. It wasn't easy to get our balance back but we made it.

Since then I have been very careful to openly support the mutual respect that we continuously show each other. We don't have to agree but we also don't have to criticize and take up sides. If we find a particular poster(s) to not be our cup of tea we can skip over her comments. If we find a faction we feel uncomfortable with, this site may not be a fit. There are lots of sites to choose from and many that thrive on conflict.

If this forum leans in the MIL direction, which I don't feel it does any longer, it's because that's how it started out. It was www.MotherInLawsUnite.com for the first year. However, so many wonderful DILS joined us and made such an enormous contribution that I renamed it on our one year anniversary last May.

I know I am borrowing the phrase "Take What You Like And Leave The Rest" but that's what works best. My thanks to all of you that do that. Sending love...

I have been criticized via Personal Message for referring a member who wrote about suicidal thoughts to a crisis professional. I just want you all to know that I would rather ere on the side of caution than wish I had. I didn't close the membership, just the post. Most of us, certainly I am one, don't have the training to deal with life and death issues.

I know it is autocratic, but this is my site and it costs a bundle to create and maintain. (All of which is donated by my son and webmaster who is incredibly busy and usually charges $250. an hour.)  It can't possibly suit everyone. That's never been my goal. If my policies work for you, that's great. If they don't, other sites may be more suitable.

I also just canceled a membership where the person has a very negative reputation on many other sites. She starts out sounding wonderful... then she hunts down members on Facebook, copies their posts and sends them to other family members.

You might be relieved to know that some of us who monitor Web-forums keep in touch for your protection.

My point is that what you get here is my best. It is far from perfect but it's all I have to give.

I am moving into HUD housing today so will be off-line over the weekend and until Kirk has me hooked back up. Sending love to one and all...

In a last-ditch attempt to arrest the shingles virus infection in my l. eye that has resisted all treatment and resided there for five years, I am undergoing a Corneal Transplant on Sept 8th. It may or may not be followed by a Stem Cell Transplant depending on how I do post-op. Please mark you calendars, if you are so inclined, and think of me on that day and the days following. General anesthesia for someone in their 80s (me) is pretty debilitating, transplants are more easily rejected where disease is present and healing is usually slowed...so the risks are high. They have no idea if it will even help...it's just a long shot. I have just recovered, oh so slowly, from a fractured tibia and am still wiped out from my 12 year care giving stint and collapse.  Fu Manchu!

All that being said, I still believe in miracles.  Kirk and Sandy are delaying returning to Kauai until I am one month post-op...and will see me through this. Bless their hearts! 

Do you think when I am looking out at the world through the cornea of a person who has passed on...that it will be an expanded universe? Something like rose-colored glasses? 

HI! I'M A 46 YR OLD MOTHER OF 8 MY YOUNGEST IS 5 AND MY ELDEST DS IS GOING TO BE 27 IN SEPT. MY SON IS MARRIED 2 YEARS AND HAS A 4 MONTH OLD SON. MY DIL, WHO HAS BEEN WITH MY DS FOR 11 YEARS, HAS BEEN NICE TO MY Ds PRIOR TO THE WEDDING, HAS PLACED A RULE ON OUR FAMILY THAT OUR GRANDSON CAN NEVER ENTER OUR HOUSE AT ANY TIME EVER. SHE CLAIMS THAT WE ARE DIRTY AND THAT THE HOUSE IS MOLDY AND OUR HOME IN WHICH HER HUSBAND ELI WAS RAISED IS A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT. THEY HAVE 3 CATS BY THE WAY IN A 2 ROOM APARTMENT WHICH IS NOT A COMPLETELY STERILE ENVIRONMENT. ALSO. THIS HAS HURT MY WHOLE FAMILY. WE ARE HEARTBROKEN AND FEEL THAT WE ARE BEING PUNISHED FOR SOME REASON. THEY SAY THAT WE ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO THEIR HOME TO SEE GS IF WE CALL 3 HOURS IN ADVANCE AND WE HAVE GONE TO VISIT TWO TIMES. THE FIRST TIME SHE LET EACH OF THE GIRLS HOLD THE BABY FOR 10 SECONDS AND I HELD HIM FOR 2 MINUTES AND MY HUSBAND WAS NOT OFFERED TO HOLD HIM. THE SECOND VISIT WE JUST STOOD THERE LIKE DUMMIES LOOKING AT THE BABY WHILE SHE WALKED ALL AROUND DOING THINGS AND IN ONE INSTANCE SHE SAID SHE WAS MAKING HIM A BOTTLE SO I WASHED MY HANDS AND OFFERED TO HOLD HIM WHILE SHE MADE IT SHE SAID NO THANKS I'M FINE. SO SHE HELD THE BABY UNDER ONE ARM LIKE A FOOTBALL HAD THE NIPPLE IN HER MOUTH AND WAS DRIPPING FORMULA ALL OVER THE PLACE STRUGGLING TO SHAKE THE BOTTLE THIS LOOKED LIKE SHE WHAT RATHER WORK EXTRA HARD MAKING HIS BOTTLE AT ALL COSTS JUST SO THAT I WOULD NOT HOLD HIM. WE PUT OUR SON THROUGH NURSING SCHOOL. HE IS A REGISTERED ICU NURSE. HE CLAIMS THAT WE WERE AND STILL ARE THE WORST PARENTS IN THE WORLD. MY HUSBAND WAS RUN OVER BY A FORKLIFT IN 1986 LEAVING HIM DISABLED AND WITH CHRONIC PAIN WITH A CRUSHED FOOT INJURY. WE ARE NOT WEALTHY BUT OUR KIDS ALWAYS HAVE FOOD ON THE TABLE AND CLEAN CLOTHES ON THEIR BACKS AND LOTS OF LOVE AND ATTENTION. I HAVE NEVER DREAMED IN A MILLION YEARS THAT I WOULD LOSE MU SON IN THIS MANNER. HE SAYS THAT WE TURNED HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS AGAINST HIM. THAT WAS HIS OWN DOING BY MAKING THEM AND HIS PARENTS FEEL SO IN SIGNIFICANT. HIS IN-LAWS ARE WEALTHY WITH A BUSY PLUMBING COMPANY. WE HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM BECAUSE THEY TELL THE COMMUNITY THAT WE ARE BUMS AND HAVE A DIRTY HOME. MY HOUSE IS A DECENT RANCH WITH A BROKEN SHUTTER ON ONE WINDOW AND A LAWN WITH A COUPLE OF BALD SPOTS. WE NEED SOME HOME REPAIRS LIKE TILES COMING UP IN THE BATHROOM AND A LEAKING SHOWER BODY. DS'S FIL, THE PLUMBING EXPERT, TELLS HIM TO TELL US TO BURN OUR HOUSE DOWN BECAUSE HE DOESN'T WANT TO HELP US FIX A LEAK. PLEASE GIVE US SOME ADVICE .........THANK YOU......LOVEBIRD

Julia...Julia   I wish I could "get over myself you know"  What is MY problem?

Creme...You could probably answer that more then anyone...why don't we explore this question?  Julia, all of us have or are insecure about one thing or another, but as in everything else, there are different levels of insecurity.  I myself, used to be extremely insecure, however, sure hope I'm doing better.

Your value has to come from within, however, first you must take a look at how we grew up...where one or both of your parents insecure?  Where one or both of your parents, negative?  Looked for the negative in everything and when you wanted to share something paramount with them, they brought your happiness down, by being negative about it.

Take for instance, you've decided to go on a vacation, fly to an island...however, your mother and friends who are very small town folks, and never took a vacation in they're lives, say..."aren't you araid?" or "I would be afraid to go on a vacation by myself"  or "What about the money".  We as social beings look to others for approval, whether we know it or not, we do...we want people to be happy with us and for us...however, when we share good news with people...or if something really good happens to us, and we share, people right away reply something negative.  Why, not always b/c they're jealous, but b/c they don't know how to be happy...they're whole life has been built on disappointments and they never realized all the opportunities available to them, so b/c they don't do it, why should you?

My mother (real mother) is a very negative person...she will complain about anyone who is experiencing a good life...she is hugely insecure...she hates to hear someone is happy...and I mean that...she feeds off of negativity and being down...and I do believe if your constantly negative, negative things will happen to you....not you, but people in general.

So lets start trying to find out why your insecure Julia...
would you mind?  or would it embarrasse you to talk about it?
It's ok if you don't want to...

Here are some questions you should ask yourself...

1.  When you decide to do something different, like go on a vacation...do you try to look for reasons why you shouldn't...or when you want to go  somewhere, same thing, do you try to look for reasons why you shouldn't go?

2.  Take a look at your parents, did one of them constantly talk you down, maybe tried to keep you from excelling...if you got B's in school, did they demand A's.  Did they look at the negative all the time?

3.  Does fear set in when you get out of your comfort zone?

4.  Are you able to go places on your own?  By yourself?  and if not, why?

5.  Are you able to make decissions and stick to them, or do you need advice from others before you do so?

I grew up in a very small town...small town people, small town concepts...girls didn't go to school or travel, they got married and had children right away....what those people didn't realize is, is that education and travel are life experiences which prepare children for life, for social skills, and for confidence.  Life itself is an education...however, college is good...any amount of education anyone can get, is good...it helps the individual realize, there is much more to life then they're own worlds....in other words, we all live in our protective plastic bubbles, away from the rest of the world...many of us, have no idea what is really going on out there...unless we get out there and experience, listen, read, study the news...which is not always acurate...and get involved in social activities.

Confidence is something someone has to believe within themselves...

Are you valuable? If you are, how do you know? If you don't think you are, how do you know? Where does value come from? Feeling loved and valued starts the same place for all of us at home with our parents. Unfortunately, some parents don't do a really great job in communicating 'unconditional' value to their kids. I stress unconditional because some people grew up in homes where they felt valued only when they performed well.

I vowed, I was never ever going to be like my real mother...she had no social skills what so ever...and she is very embarrassing when people get together and talk...she doesn't know how to communicate, other then talk about herself...and she gets very graffic and personal....she was never taught there are some things you just don't discuss over and over with others....

I traveled and got used to going places by myself...finding out while growing up, that if you wait for others to go with you, they at the last minute, decline, so I got real tired of being disappointed and not going b/c someone else didn't want to go and/or spend the money.

Go out to eat by yourself, or to a movie....by yourself...make yourself....it's really marvelous getting to know the you, of you...actually exciting.

You are your own best friend....don't depend on others to take the lead...learn just what a special person you are...through self examination...we are all unique you know, each and every one of us...we all have a significant purpose in the bigger picture of it all.

Email From the TUT Website this morning:

Young souls learn to accept responsibility for their actions.

Mature souls learn to accept responsibility for their thoughts.

And old souls learn to accept responsibility for their happiness.

This topic has been moved to Adult Sons and/or Adult Daughters.

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php?topic=810.0

Several of you have contributed to my work by going to Donations on www.MomResponds.com and others of you have sent cards, offered to get together or sent Personal Messages of encouragement and appreciation. I want to thank everyone. You have no idea how all of that feels over here. This community is my dream and you are the ones fulfilling it; psychologically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually and yes, with much-needed monetary support.

We are so solid and so sensitive. So short and so long winded. So funny and so serious. We are such a broad spectrum of women of worth and dignity. Do I dare say so young and so old, since I am 83? Bless your hearts!!

Hi,

When I disappear from WWU for a while it is about having no energy reserves. Wednesday, I had an ingrown toenail dug out which I rate right up there with having minor surgery at home without an anesthetic. I have a very low pain threshold...to boot. How that relates to my long term, care giver burn-out is that when I use an increased amount of energy, I no longer have anything to fall back on. So, down I go.

I have been Val's care giver for the last 11 years. It started when he was no longer able to drive or write checks and handle finances. Taking those things over was easy. However, over the years, there has been an endless process of taking over more and more. You add just one more thing and you think the impact is minimal.

What happens is there is a point of no return when you have done too much for too long...24/7...and you break. That happened to me after I fractured the base of my right tibia in November. I was confident I could still be Val's care giver from my wheel chair. I was out of the wheel chair by February be there wasn't enough left of me to scrape up off the driveway (one of my mom's sayings.) I was too tired to carry on a conversation and all I could do was cry...(and I'm not a crier.) So, Val was placed in the nursing facility here in our retirement center and I shifted gears to going over to see him twice a day...and resting, resting, resting. I eat a balance diet and take supplements but it's like I've lost my bone marrow or something. I can't describe it.

In the ten years I have lived here, I have seen at least a dozen care givers die before their loved ones because by the time they put them in nursing, the care giver was too far gone to be able to recover. Still, when everyone could see it was happening to me, I couldn't see it and insisted that I was coping. I was but the cost was enormous. Eventually, my care giver shelf-life just ground to a halt.

So, anything extra that happens these days, whether it is wonderful like Kirk arriving or horrible like my infected toe nail being excised...I have nothing to fall back on...and I fall. When you miss me, just know that it's a process and I am slowly healing. What cheers me is that I am down for shorter and shorter periods of time. I rise from the ashes much sooner than I did at first.

Maybe I should have taken the user name of "Phoenix." Sending gratitude and love...

Thank you for you interest, concern, love and support...always!

This topic has been moved to Grab Bag.

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php?topic=773.0

This topic has been moved to Grab Bag.

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php?topic=770.0

Good one!

I'm struggling right now with things that I see at the nursing home that I think are neglectful of Val and he doesn't notice them and isn't hurt by them.

My question is: "Is this anger and hurt about him...or is it about me?" (Clue: I'm crying over it and he is sleeping like a baby.) 

Just wanted to share that tomorrow Kirk arrives from Hawaii for THREE MONTHS. His fabulous, significant other, Sandy, will be here a week later. They have a little summer place down the road only seven miles from me because they don't like the Kauai summers. (Thank heaven!  )

They bring their lap tops and can work from here (or anywhere else.) This journey with Val is a long, drawn-out and sad one and I am so looking forward to fun times with them and their support, as well.

Yippee-yea!!! Had to celebrate with you guys!

Hi Everyone ...just wanted to share my own experience.  My 23 y/o son (24 in 2 weeks) who was a boomerang adult told me he didn't care anything about me during a heated argument.  I made him move out of here where he was living rent free for 2+ years.  He blew up at me after I left a list of things I wanted him to do in the yard during the week.  He chose to do everything on the list in one day even though he hadn't went to sleep after working all night.  He was very angry and balled up the list, threw it...knocked my printer off my desk, banged his fists on my file cabinet (bent it badly).  Very harsh words were spoken by both of us.  He called a family member to help him get his things.  Now the family members aren't speaking to me.
He is living with his father my ex-husband who hates me.  We've been divorced for 19 years and he never helped out.  He bad mouths me always have to our son.  It's been 3 weeks since the blow-up, and my son hasn't apologized for saying that he wishes I were dead during the argument.  I said it back to him and apologized via a lengthy email message.  We haven't spoken in almost a month.  I've texted and emailed him weekly and he doesn't seem to care just like he said during the argument.  Should I continue to try to talk to him?  His 24th birthday is next week.  Should I make him the usual cake and just take it to his job or his dad's house?  I was a single parent for so long and I feel very lonely and disappointed by the way he treated me when I helped him so many times.  He lost his jobs several times and his cars broke down, I drove him every where he needed to go for 15 months. His college tuition was paid by me.  He's failed classes every semester but passed one of two classes he took last semester. There were loans that were never re-paid.  His dad doesn't value or encourage education because he never went to college and stays indebted to women he sees.  So, he won't see to it that our son continues trying to go to school.  Even now there are many of my son's things in the attic and storage sheds. His dad really doesn't care about him and has the potential to break his spirit. But he will keep him there now because he wants to hurt me.  He has tried to win his father's attention and love all his life and I don't want him poisoned and to become an uncaring bitter person like his dad is.  Should I just embrace the peace I have in the home now and trust God to handle my son's heart?  Should I continue trying to show love towards him even though it seems like he meant what he said during the argument?  Feedback please

This topic has been moved to Grab Bag.

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php?topic=701.0

This topic has been moved to Grab Bag.

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php?topic=692.0

Clover  I am really missing you. Sending love...

A dear friend just sent me this article by Dr. Joshua Coleman:

WHEN SHOULD I STOP TRYING TO REACH OUT TO MY ADULT CHILD?

I often get asked this question by parents who have been through an estrangement. I think it's an important question so I'm posting it here and on the NYT's website where the article is.

I don't think that parents are required to reach out forever to their adult children, nor do I think it's always productive for them. Many parents come to a point where they feel too traumatized by the ongoing rejection, blame, and anger of their adult children, and choose to make peace with the loss of their child, rather than continue to be hurt by them. Parents who have been loving and dedicated may be especially damaged and disoriented by continuing to reach out to a child who continues to blame them for something that they didn't do or for advocating a narrative of their childhoods that is so at odds with their own.

If a parent is confused by an estrangement it may be because they're in denial or overly defensive, as some adult children argue. On the other hand, it may be that their child's perspective of them and their lives together is so different from theirs that they are completely at a loss for how to respond.

I do recommend reaching out early on in an estrangement in order to understand and make sense of why the child has initiated it. There are separate realities in every family and it's reasonable for a parent, as a parent, to try to comprehend why the adult child feels the way that they do. In addition, some parents give up too soon because of the intense feelings of loss, anger, guilt, and humiliation that an estrangement creates in them.

So, in the early phase, I recommend that you send birthday and holiday gifts, emails, phone calls on a somewhat regular basis to demonstrate your commitment, dedication, and willingness to take a long, hard look at yourself and whatever part you play in your child's unhappiness with you or with the way that their life has turned out. Assume that this may be a matter of years, rather than months.

However, if a child isn't a minor and has very clearly stated that they want absolutely no contact with you after you have dedicated a reasonable amount of time and effort trying to re-connect, I think it is reasonable for you to work toward grieving the loss of that child, healing your anger about feeling so misused and misunderstood, addressing your emotions of guilt and regret, and resolving the inevitable feelings of heartbreak that come from being rejected by your own child. It's no small task. But, as some of the parents in my practice have shown me, it's sometimes easier if you just let go.