One counselor's observation as to what happens to Mothers of sons when they wed

[Scoop]

Pen - I think the DIL's here are dealing with the same 'sort' of people, just with different titles.  I think the rotten ones don't have a problem with the way things are, so they have no need for internet support.

I do have one friend who went into her marriage knowing that she would never accept her IL's.  That being said, her MIL is a drunk and her FIL lives several hours away.  She is constantly telling me that my MIL is lucky that she has ME as a DIL and not her, because she would NOT hold her tongue, nor would she even TRY to 'get along'.

Her DH doesn't seem to care.  He also would not / could not stand up to her.  He doesn't have much of a leg to stand on, his M had a hard time remembering the name of her grandson, my friend and her DH's son.   It was a simple, 3 letter name.

[luise.volta]

Wow!! Talk about counting your blessings! Sending love...

[free_at_last]

I totally understand that some of you are dealing with triangulation or whatever. My mom had to deal with my GM in that way, so I know the dynamic well. What I'm sensitive to is being disregarded or lectured to, and I sense that other MILs feel the same. We're confused and in pain, for no reason other than that someone decided to run the show and run us out. I am sensitive about DIL's FOO being first and foremost in everything, and the response that DIL feels more comfortable with them is obvious. But wouldn't the same hold true for DS? Why aren't his FOO equally important then? Why the double standard? If women's lib is the excuse for the new breed of confident(selfish?) DILs, then the old stand-by of "sons are supposed to cleave to wife, foresake FOO, etc." should be outdated. Fair's fair. If DS has to be traditional, DIL should have to be as well. If DIL is following "new rules" (sorry Bill Maher) then DS should be able to, too.

It's interesting that not one DIL here has ever admitted to feeling the way my DIL does - that she went into the marriage with the intent to get rid of the ILs ASAP. We must have a special breed of DILs here who really are concerned about their relationships with their ILs, and are not here just to vent. Thanks to Luise for her vision and maintenance of this special place.

Have any of the DILs here heard similar feelings regarding planning to cut off the ILs from the get-go from their friends or relatives? I'd be interested to know what goes through the mind of someone like that.

I think any woman that went into her marriage wanting to cut DH's family out of the picture wouldn't end up at a place like this because she wouldn't care enough to look for a place like this.  We may all be here for different reasons, but I bet most of us are here because we were  hurt by someone we want or wanted to have some sort of relationship with.  I am sure there are other DILs out there that are like yours but I don't think there are really very many.  None of my friends have cut off their ILs.  Sure, some of them complain about them from time to time, and sometimes they have valid complaints and sometimes they get upset over things that are, IMO, silly, but to them might be a very big deal.  I don't have any friends who have, or want to, completely cut them off, and I know I definitely did not go into my marriage wanting to cut my IL's off. 

I have no idea why your DIL's FOO always come first.  I can tell you why my family was always first.  My family accepted my husband immediately, even before we were married he was treated like part of the family.   I was always treated as an outsider by his family which hurt not only me, but also my husband.  It wasn't matter of me being more comfortable with my family, it was a matter of us both being more comfortable with my family.   From what I have read of your posts I don't think that applies to you and I really have no idea what is going on in your DILs head or if it's inadvertent or calculated.  The fact that your son is making an effort to spend more time with you tells me that he may not always agree with what his wife is doing, either. 

[luise.volta]

It sure isn't a perfect world. I remember how beautifully my sons accepted Val and how mean and cold his kids were toward me. They never gave me a chance.

[1Glitterati]

Interesting discussion. It seems to me that the DILs here think they're schooling the MILs, and I sometimes feel a bit patronized. I'd like to see some DILs suddenly "get it." Ladies, there are lessons to be learned all around. As an MIL here (since my current MIL passed away I'm no longer a DIL) I often feel as if the DILs here want the MILs to admit wrongdoing and show that they've gotten insight. On the other hand, the DILS rarely admit wrongdoing or indicate they've gotten a better understanding of what the MILs are going through. It's so easy to say we MILs are triangulating or have some other weird attachment disorder and dismiss us as being "less than." But we MILs know that DILs can mess up, too, and it can sometimes start with them.

I can share with you one thing that it comes down to---whether you (the dil) cares or not.

We have made great strides over the last few months with the ils.  I've even been over for dinner and it was fairly nice.  I had let them back into the boys life previously, and have let them in even more now.  They'll probably even come over for lunch on Xmas (cause I'm not going there...it just isn't negotiable.)

As to the caring part...if I want to see the il's side...I have to care.  Even with everything that has happened lately...I still don't think I care about their feelings.  I've done what I've done because I've worked through some things inside my own head and I'm giving a little more because it makes my dh happy AND it doesn't hurt me.  [If it did hurt me...i wouldn't do it even for him.]  I'm not doing anything because I care about their feelings...because frankly...I DON'T care about their feelings or wants any longer. 

So...it may not be hubris on the part of the dil...they just may not give a sh!%,

[1Glitterati]

It's interesting that not one DIL here has ever admitted to feeling the way my DIL does - that she went into the marriage with the intent to get rid of the ILs ASAP. We must have a special breed of DILs here who really are concerned about their relationships with their ILs, and are not here just to vent.

Pen...I LOVED my inlaws for well over 15 years before it all hit the fan.  I never tried to cut them out.  I welcomed them and I THOUGHT they welcomed me.  The sad part about the whole thing for them (and...on some level I think it does bother them) is that they killed the love I had for them.  It's just dead.  I am now polite and cordial to them.  I do not seek them out to visit or talk to the way I used to.  I do not just invite them to dinner or take my mil out to lunch anymore.  I no longer do anything with them just because.  And...I never will again.  They shattered my trust--didn't bend it...just shattered it.  It can never be rebuilt.  I can be polite and cordial...but nothing beyond that. 

[1Glitterati]

I wish the sons would step up and have a voice in this but they either don't or they are shouted down.  Both my DILs will either use the silent treatment or will get crazy mad if they are crossed. I wish we hadn't raised them to be such nice guys.  I really do. I really don't mean that. 

I'm glad things have changed for me.  I play by the rules so I get to be inside the line drawn in the sand.  Oh goody.  I have disengaged, expect nothing and am surprised and delighted with the slightest things now.  I don't love any of them like I did.  I think that's the saddest thing!!

My reply is just general...and not intended to be malicious...has anyone ever thought that the reason the sons defer to their wives is that they think their wives feelings are more important than their parents feelings?

[cremebrulee]

Glitter
I couldn't get it thru my head that my son's wife's feelings were more important...it cut deeply...but then I started listening to the counselor...and reading and realized when I married, I wanted my husband to have my back....we were a union..marriage is much different then the union of child and parents...and we all need to admit that to ourselves, and if a problem occurs, even though I was devestated, I knew I raised my son to know, that his wife came first and foremost...

They still love us, but not in a different way, as they love they're wives in a much different way, it's not un natural, but more so, the most natural part of life...ours sons no longer need us in the way they needed us before they're wives came along, they looked to us for counseling, nurturing, mentoring, etc...but now they have a wife for all of that, as it should be and is perfectly nornal...and most sons want they're mothers to let them go, but to be happy...this whole thing is devestating to them, embarrasses them, b/c we hold on way to tightly.

There are in fact different loves.  Would you expect your husband to take the DIL's side?  He would take your side, regardless if he felt you were right or wrong...that is usually just the way it is...why should our sons feel any different?

And this is a warning...if we continue to fight this, instead of understand it, our son's are going to go where it gives them the most peace...and that won't be towards us, but away from us....

so we do have a choice, while it may not seem fair, if we want any kind of relationship with our sons and GC, we must resolve this in our own minds...believe it and begin to practice it...otherwise, there will be nothing but pain for everyone.

thanks Glitter....and by the way, glad to hear there is some progress...I hope it comes more and more natural and feels natural...regardless...I really do.

[miss_priss]

Ya know, in some circumstances you are right.  DIL's do come accross as "schooling" MILs in this post, but I can certainly list about 10 other threads where the opposite has happened.  However, when the MILs do it, it's very "passive," they simply skip over the DIL posting and discard it as if it didn't exist...and then reference it in a joking manner later in the thread.  It's happened to me twice that I can think of, and I've seen it happen to other DILs here as well.    OR, one or two MILs passively belittle that person's opinion altogether.  Some, as you know, didn't even bother coming back, and that's a shame.  They may have needed help, we don't know what kind of battles they're facing.  I've seen it several times, and it makes me angry each time.  Case & Point:  I posted, in this very thread, about avoiding the notation that a "love triangle" has to involve affairs and sex and be perverse.....its obvious that was skipped RIGHT OVER, because we're STILL beating that dead horse!  Maybe I'll re-phrase it in a way that might ring more clear:  Right now we're not talking about perverse love triangles involving physical affairs and sex...please, put down your trashy romance novel and join us in reality.   

In this particular thread there are clearly two sides.  MILs unanimously (except Creme of course) think the "triangulation" and the MIL/DS/DIL "love triangle" is proposterous/ridiculous/crazy/etc..  My response to that is, again, if it doesn't apply to you, then good for you.  That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  You've got THREE DIL's who have posted on this thread that this theory makes absolute sense to.  We're all facing a similar situation, inexplicably similar.  We got rotten MILs, and the fact that they are MILs is not what makes them rotten.  They are rotten people, rotten women, and they were that way loooooooooooooooong before their sons married, it just came to a head when they realized that their DILs were not the slaves to their wishes that their sons once were.  THREE women in this thread alone are facing this type of issue, yet somehow it's still being discounted as "ridiculous."  How's that for "understanding and compassion?"   

Not all women are kind and loving, therefore by correlation not all MILs (or DILs) are kind and loving.  Pen, I believe you got a rotten DIL, I really do.  You've repeated yourself more times than I can count, I get it, DIL admits you did nothing wrong.  To push someone out without good reason is a ridiculously cruel concept.  You might not be a totally isolated case, but I'd venture to say its close. 

And to circle back to your point about DILs admitting fault....well, I did, I've discussed it several times actually right here on this forum.  Sunny has, again several times.  Pam1 has too....or were those posts passively skipped over?  We're not perfect.  We did things I'm sure that didn't help our situations or our relationships with our MILs.  I certainly am not without fault.  I threw water in my MIL's face for crying out loud!  I apologized for my lack of self-control, it was hard but I knew it needed to be done.  I'm stubborn as an old mule, I can be a real hot-head sometimes, I'm a grizzly bear when it comes to my young child, and my boundaries are black & white, plain & simple.  We DILs could ask the same question about "admitting fault," ya know?  We have a current thread on this forum, right now, where a woman obviously disrespected her DIL's boundaries.  Honestly, it doesn't get more black & white than that.  It was pointed out to her, by SEVERAL people....but mostly those posts were skipped over because one or two "sympathizers" told her what she did was ok, that she was "justified."  Admit fault???  Yeah, right.  Not as long as someone can justify it and tell you its ok! 

But did I set out to "cut DH from the herd?"  No.  Actually quite the opposite.  I told him to go back to his "herd," I didn't want a husband who already had a wife in his mama.  I didn't ask him to choose, I would never do that.  Instead I chose to end it myself in order to avoid his whacko mama because I saw her true colors pretty quickly.  His mother was (and still tries extremely hard to be) the apex of his "love triangle."  She believes, and has stated so on many occasions, that SHE should forever be the #1 woman in DH's life, and that "any woman he has will have to deal with that."  It wasn't until DH (then boyfriend) saw that there was a real problem there and agreed to go to counseling that I agreed to re-build the relationship, and it's been a long hard road to get past all the damage she did, the lies she told to each of us to turn us against eachother, the tantrums, the guilt trips, the TRIANGLE!...and some days we still struggle to hold it together, because "fight or flight" is also a very real concept.  Many days I'd love to fly away from all this mess, and tell his mama "she's #1" as I flew over, baby in tow!  I've never in my life been as bitter and jaded as I have been in the past year.  I am still working through anger, resentment and depression.  But I know now that my DH is my mate, he was meant to be, we complete one another in every way, and I shudder to think that I almost let her win by leaving him, that's exactly what she wanted so that she could be his #1 woman again.  So please don't tell me that this concept of a coo-koo-for-cocoa-puffs MIL trianglulation doesn't exist.  If you're so naive to think that it doesn't happen and that these women aren't out there, then maybe you really do need to be "schooled."

And if it confirms your theory that "these DILs put their FOOs first and foremost in everything," I am also close to my FOO, although I certainly didn't grow up like a princess thinking I would someday "marry my daddy."  (I agree, what a twisted thing to say.)  My parents divorced when I was 7.  My father remarried about 6 years later, my mother just remarried this year after years and years of rotten relationships with literally hundreds of men who were even more rotten.  If there was a no-good (often times abusive) loser within 50 miles, my mother was instantly attracted to him.  She really did seem to always find the winners!  Thankfully she finally settled down a few years ago, she's been sober and drug-free for about 6 years and she's made a complete turnaround.  Both sets of my parents live an hour away from us and we see them every chance we get.  They are NOT wealthy people, they do not provide us with lavish vacations or expensive gifts, but they are kind, loving, respectful of our privacy, lots of fun, courteous, well-mannered and best of all they are COMPLETELY GUILT & PRESSURE FREE.  When we can't make it there for Thanksgiving, they don't complain.  When we can't come for family dinner, they don't ask why or complain or make us feel guilty.  They actually took the time to get to know DH, and for that reason, DH is shockingly the one who initiates most of our trips to see them!  DH has told me he feels like he belongs with my family, that he feels comfortable enough to be himself around them.  My father goes out of his way to make sure DH is comfortable because they are part of only a handful of guys in a family FULL of women.  DH's family, on the other hand, from day #1 treated me like an outcast.  They questioned my every move, publicly.  His father hasn't apoken 100 words to me the entire duration of our relationship.  His mother began to criticize me the very first time I met her, all because I was late to dinner because I got stuck in a meeting at work.  It hurt, from day #1.  With my FOO, we are accepted and loved as a couple, we are loved as ONE UNIT, there are no "strings" or conditions that must be met or chores that must be done to gain their trust or affection.  We are nearly a drama-free family and the last time I encouraged DH to go home to spend Thanksgiving or Christmas with his FOO, he CHOSE not to, but rather to spend it with my FOO, because his mother was pressuring him to do so.  He could come and have a great time and lots of hugs, laughs, and smiles, OR he could drive 8 hours to visit his FOO to find a list of chores, MIL constantly screaming at FIL, MIL constantly moaning and complaining about how she never sees her "boy" anymore, and the 48 hour guilt trip of "why do you spend more time with DIL's family now???"  My DH admittedly hates going home to the constant drama, belly-aching, moaning, griping, and complaining, so now we very rarely make that trip.  When we do go, it's for a wedding or other special event for one of the other family members we ARE close to, we haven't made the trip "just to visit" his parents in years because its simply an awkward and miserable time, and I stopped making the trip long before he did.  I personally have better things to do with my time besides spend it fighting off a dramatic tearful guilt trip and snide nasty comments.  In short, we just like spending time with those who are genuine and don't cause a bunch of drama in our lives.  So go ahead - pick me apart because we spend more time with my FOO.  You're right, they really are "first and foremost" above his FOO, because they respect our boundaries, accept us as a couple, don't talk trash about us when we're not there, and most notedly are not the source of ever-streaming complaints, constraints, conditions, strings, aprehensions, nastiness, ungrateful and rude behavior, and drama in our lives.  Yes, my FOO gets first consideration for holiday gatherings.  Yes, my FOO gets invited to events that my ILs don't.  Yes, we spend LOTS more time with them because basically they're the only acceptable family we have.  I am as generic as can be around my MIL.  I talk about weather now, when we're even speaking.  I don't trust her because of the lies she tells in order to turn her family against me and because of her alcoholic tendencies of violence.  I have been given no reason to respect her, so therefore I am "civil" in the manner that I don't "disappoint" her anymore with my presence or my daughter's presence.  If DH chooses to participate in her soap opera, whatever, good for him, but I will be no part of it and neither will my daughter.  Shame, shame, shame on me!

[RedRose]

Sex or no sex involved I don't have to agree with this concept...

Pen is right, I feel lectured to here sometimes.

The anger and resentment you have for your MIL, Miss Priss, is very obvious.
I see you have had a hard time...but...you do not have to get upset with me or anyone else here simply because opinions may differ from you.

[pam1]

Well said, Miss Priss. 

You know, when I speak I'm not speaking about ALL  MIL's or for ALL DIL's.  I'm just speaking from my experience.  My MIL tried to come on our honeymoon with us!  To have someone try to tell me this triangle doesn't exist is their opinion -- but it doesn't stop me from believing it.  We've lived it.

If the concept of triangulation doesn't apply to you or your situation -- I can't see why it's harmful for others who it does affect to talk about it.  This thread seemed to be started to shoot down the concept from the get-go, which boggles my mind as to why it was even posted in the first place.  There are some DIL's here who have first hand experienced it.  If it's not true for you, so be it.  But it doesn't mean that it wouldn't help us, the ones who it does affect, to simply shut down discussion because it doesn't apply to you.  I thought we were welcome here too.

Pen, I have not tried to cut DH from the herd.  I don't know many people who have cut off family members in real life, I've certainly met quite a few on the internet and from their stories, it was not done over one single incident.   It was done over years of insults, guilt trips, nasty, abusive, disrespectful behavior. 

In any case Pen, I read you with great interest.  I generally always look to see what you have to say.  Reading you reminds me of my FOO and how I've let them down and it's given me the strength to say "enough!" to DH's FOO.   I registered here after being up late one night and kept coming across your posts. I don't think triangulation applies to you -- but I'd bet some good $$ that it does to your DIL's FOO.  And you know what, your DS is caught up in that like me and other DIL's here.  It's not some easy thing to get out of.  It's heart-wrenching, it's marriage wrecking.  Your DS probably loves the ground your wife walks on but can't get her to open up her eyes to her FOO's dysfunctional behavior and how it affects everyone around her, including him....the most!  Miss Priss has posted some pretty detailed emotions a spouse feels getting caught up in this triangle.   

I can tell you if my FOO asked my DH why he doesn't want to spend time with them, why his FOO gets all the first dibs and etc....DH would have no idea what they were talking about for awhile.  To him, that's just the way it is, the way he was brought up to consider them first and foremost over everything else.  Now DH is a bit better.  Before he wouldn't see the difference in spending ALL day with one of his extended family members for their birthday vs why he never felt an obligation ever tell any one of the members of my family a simply Happy Birthday over the phone.  It seriously NEVER occurred to him.  I'm not saying your DIL is innocent but it is quite possibly she was raised SO dysfunctionally that she can't see out of this triangle she is in with her FOO. 

Anyway, I'm not saying that is the case Pen.  It could be that she is perfectly one hundred percent dysfunction free and just never wants to be around your FOO.  Somehow if she is able to admit that you didn't do anything wrong that is the case.  And again, Just My Opinion.   

[Nana]

Pen

I understand the way you feel.    What happened was that many dils answered this post and it seem as if they took over LOL.  They happened to relate to what  was being said because they are dils that have been hurt by mils so badly as we were hurt by our dils.  It is okey Pen...this forum is for dils and mils as well. 

I did agree on the triangle....the way it should be.....it made perfect sence (logic) to me.  I only pointed out is that the triangle should leave out in-laws from both sides of the family. 

There are all kind of situations with mils and dils.  For instance, I dont like being insisted on "probably you did something that hurt you dil"  I consider myself a person that meditates on things and have no problem admitting the posibility of having hurt dil.  But we do know when we didnt.   Many dils were forced to give up on in-laws because of their attitude....but it is undeniab le that some dils came into marriage decided to not to give mil/fil a chance.  I do know of many cases among my friends daughters who love me dear and have told me that they dont want to give their in-laws a chance because they are afraid they might have problems later on.   So you see, we can never generalize.

I love Miss Priss what you said about you and husband "completing each other" .  I heard that on a movie Jerry Mcquire.   In your case, you had no choice.  Your marriage was terribly affected by mil.  I would have done the same really.  I know good mils from bad.  I was a dil and loved my mil (still do() because she loved me so much and so did she loved my children.  She was there for me any time I needed but respected me as a person and respected my marriage.  My mom was also a very good  mil and was loved in return by my sils. 
So Miss Priss...I did try to be a good (excellent) mil and it didnt work out for me for some time.  I wanted to have the same relationship I had had with my mil now with dil.  But my dil was not receptive for some time...and punched me hard.  Things did change thank God because luckily for me, she decided to give me a chance when I started distancing myself, and voila...we are now enjoying a very nice relationship.  I am now the  Nana their children need and that is my place.  I dont want to take over their house or family.    I just want to enjoy dil, son and gc.

Life is a continuous learning.  I thank you for what I have learned from you.

Love

[Annie123]

Life is a continuous learning.

I 100% agree with this Nana!! I am so far from "KNOWING IT ALL" and I know I never will know it all. But I enjoy the learning. I really do! I embrace each new step in my life.
As I wish everyone could. I feel sad for those of you that have gone through so much pain over turf. (for lack of a better word.)
I've already done all the football practices and games, baseball, grade school,high school,college, 4 times. I have NO urge to want to do it all again. (Of course if I had to I would.) But to long for it like I've heard some women talk about? Well that is not me! It is my turn to sit back and enjoy the view! And I'm LOVING IT!! It isn't easy being the "DIL" I know. I've done that too. With one of the WORLD'S WORST MIL's!!!!!  But I admire all those who really put forth the effort and try, Some even for years. Once you've given it your all. There come's a time where I can see for your own families sake you need to pull out and say, " I tried" .. I made a smart remark early in this thread. I want to say , " I'M SORRY!" I have seen that neither side is a walk in the park. 

[cremebrulee]

I'm going to share something with you which the counselor told me to start doing...she said, every single night before I go to bed, to say, I love you DIL, I love you son, and always will...she said, everytime I had negative thoughts about DIL, to do this and I did....didn't understand why, however, I followed thru...this was a little over a year before my DIL and I made amends.

The reason for this exercise was to learn to channel positive energy rather then feeding off the negative energy...when you feed off of negative energy, it takes over...and there is no room for good....we won't allow it in...

It was sort of an exercise to start reconditioning my soul, thoughts and heartfelt emotions...to take control of the negative....replacing it with good energy.  It definately works...

I don't know if any of you watch the Dog Whisperer, but he constantly speaks of negative and positive energy which we all throw off...if we see someone and are happy to see them, they know it, if we're nervous around someone or don't like them, they know it...animals pick up on this energy even quicker then humans...

We've suggested before in threads, when you speak to someone on the phone, smile while speaking, they can hear that in your voice...its true and it works...

No one is here lecturing...more so, we're sharing stories, comparing notes and learning from each other...without the DIL's we MIL's would not learn a thing and visa versa, we need each other..

I've noted that some DIL's say that they are changing they're attitudes some, and it's working a little, and so are some mil's here...you've got to admit, there have been some really amazing milestones acheived with inlaws here, no matter how small...it's working for some...

No one here is against another...and shouldn't be...and no one here should take offense if someone disagrees with them...if you don't believe in something, fine, all I ask is that you don't do one thing, and that is totally disregard another's feelings by slamming each other, it's down right silly....everyone is entitled to they're own opinions...

everyone can take what works for them and leave the rest...however, I believe no matter what anyone says, we're all here to learn...and I know sometimes it's painful and hard to read some of these posts, but we all have to remember one very important thing..without us, this forum wouldn't exist...and everyone belongs here....we are a team, there are no mil's or dil's but women and we must remember that to make it work.

I'm so sorry some of you feel like your being lectured...but if you feel that way, that's your choice...for some of us, we're sharing ideas, trouble shooting every angle we can to try and make it work...I'm still learning, and I want to continue to learn....so, I'm asking us all to remember we're a team...and not against each other...

sometimes it's so very frustrating because some take pretty quick offense to posts and feel like they've got to be defensive of they're feelings, Why? 

There is no need to feel that way...why does one person take such a defense when no one is really referring to them, and we've said over and over again, there is no right or wrong answer, it's all about personal culture and beliefs...why is it so difficult to get that...I really would like to know?  Why do some of you take words so much to heart that you actually think/believe we're against you, or lecturing you, or talking directly to you, and I'm refrencing both MIL's and DIL's.  I don't get it...

and I'll tell you one thing, this forum has a tremendous amount of ladies with a lot of patience...support, and I can't tell you how polite we are to each other...go in any other forum and see if you get treated with the same respect...you will not, nor would you survive longer then two days in some of those forums, b/c they tear you to shreads....

The ladies here, all of you are kind hearted souls...who want to make it work, otherwise you wouldn't be coming back, neither would I...so, lets trust each other rather then work against each other and lets stop taking posts so gosh darn personally...look at them objectively...and by Gosh, your allowed to disagree, but disagree in a way that is mature and confident...without insulting anyone else.

RedRose, if you feel that triangulation doesn't work for you, that is perfectly fine, no one is saying you have to adopt that concept...whatever works for you and feels comfortable...no one is saying you Red Rose have to believe in it...and if we give you our points of view on it...in a post back to you, we're simply trying to explain to you why we feel like we do, we're not undermining you b/c you don't agree...it's ok that you don't, but no one was telling you, you had to...stand by your personal convictions tall, but not so seriously that you think b/c someone thinks differently about it, they are saying your wrong..they are not...

Pen, I understand your pain and hurt, and the torture your living...however, your hurt has turned into anger, and I really do feel sometimes you take offense to a DIL's post...she is not talking about you, she is talking about her own MIL, which doesn't mean that she thinks all MIL's are like that...she's venting, she's hurt and frustrated just like you are, and she sees only her mil not you...

Barelythere, your a perfect poster child for this forum..things were hopeless for you at one time and now look, your making progress, may not be as fast as you would like, however, it takes a long time and a lot of hard work to rebuild trust...but you've got to let the past go in order to go forward...

and how many others have read a thread, and maybe were insulted by it, but a day or two later, you read it again, and you say, hey that makes sense, I'm going to try this, cuz I've tried everything else, what the heck do I have to loose?  And we have nothing to loose and everything to gain by changing our attitudes...

Take what you want away, and throw the rest away, but if we're going to work together as a team we're going to have to stop taking posts as a personal attack against us...and stop being so sensitive to the posts,thinking that someone is attacking us, or that we must defend our stance or our actions...

All I ask is that you forget who is who in here, we're sisters...there is no division...we're here to help one another and we do really care about one another...so, lets please stop taking posts personally and if we don't like what is being said, we don't have to read it, right?  Or we can voice our opinions because we have the right to, but we don't have the right to attack one another...or make something out of nothing...lets be a little more patient with each other...and stop the division...stop being afraid to voice how you feel, and stop thinking that posts are personally meant to attack...

Thanks for taking the time to read, and I do hope everyone loves each other rather then thinks we're on opposing teams here...

Hugs and love
Creme

[miss_priss]

I want to first apologize for the strong emotion, and even some finger pointing, in my previous post.  Things have been good lately, but yesterday at work I got "rained on" when my SIL called to quickly ask me "why I hadn't sent a Thank You note to MIL for the box of clothes and goodies for the baby."  Something wasn't right about this call...she was acting very weird, more so than usual.  I didn't know what to say, besides "why do you want to know?"  SIL quickly changed the subject, then quickly rushed off the phone.  Anyone got any idea why she couldn't call DH?  Why did she NEED to call ME over this, at work, when DH wasn't around to witness???  DH thinks MIL may have been listening in on this call, he says she's done it before.  I've steamed over this all day, alone, and kept it inside.  I guess I indirectly vented, a lot, in my last post.   

That box of gifts is MIL's equation to an apology, and her way of testing the waters to get a reaction...I posted about it already.  The box of clothes was "black holed," we didn't respond, we didn't show her any kind of reaction, good or bad.  I think that's got her goat and given her reason to tell everyone how ungrateful and rude her DIL is (she's never put any of that responsibility or blame on her son, even though he didn't respond with a thank you note either).

In short, SIL's call just stirred things up for me again I guess and the "love triangle" just felt even more real to me and I felt the need to "crusade" anyone who couldn't see just how real this is. It's not sexual, but it's still very sick.  It's hard these days to be happy, when you know that black cloud is looming over your head just waiting for the chance to rain down on you again.  The drama could start again, anytime, when you don't expect it, just like SIL's phone call yesterday.  They're bullies, all of them, plain and simple.  But they don't bully DH, they wouldn't dare question him or hurt him...but they could care less about me or my feelings.  I tried for the longest time to please them, but I can't.  I will never be good enough and I stopped trying long ago.  I don't accept their treatment and choose not to subject myself or my daughter to it.  I don't care if DH wants to visit his FOO, I don't care if he wants to maintain relationships with them.  I no longer encourage it because they are toxic, but rather I just don't care anymore, whatever.  All I want is for them to leave ME alone, and not expect me to share my daughter with them when they bully me and can't treat me like I'm human.  They treat me as if I have to answer to them, like when they inquire I must answer like a child, and I must gain their approval, accept their berating, and pass their tests before they will allow me to just be happy with DH.  Just leave me alone!  Am I being unreasonable?  Am I asking too much?