Author Topic: One counselor's observation as to what happens to Mothers of sons when they wed  (Read 3530 times)

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barelythere

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This was written by a DIL who had learned in therapy what was wrong with her MIL. Very hard to read and below the belt, I think. ______________________________________________________________________________
"This is what's hard for these women to understand. Their sons are NOT all that interested in these very tight, very close, very intimate relationships with their mothers. They outgrew the Oedipal phase; the mothers never did. Let's face it: it's very pleasant when your 4 year old son adores you and swears he's going to marry you and be your knight in shining armor. But it doesn't last; it's a phase.

The sons don't take the responsibility for a close relationship with their mothers because they don't WANT them. They also don't want to hurt their mothers, they don't want them unhappy, but they also don't want to talk to them every day and solve their every problem and support all their emotional upsets. They want to move on, but they also want their mother's to be okay with them moving on.

The MILs turn desperately to the DILs to wring out the closeness they long for--or they blame the DILs for the distance they sense. A lot of men shove their wives between them and their desperate mommies. "I got to get some space; make her okay with it". DILs resent both being used as a bridge between mother and son and also to be blamed for a natural phenomenon--sons grow up and grow away. DILs pick up quickly on desperately lonely, clingy, needy women and see what even the MILs may be too ashamed to admit; these MILs (not all MILs), but these MILs have based their emotional lives on their son and are an intrusion into their marriages. DILs sense the same danger to their marriages as they would from any other woman who is determined to get their husbands.

When mothers let go of their sons and don't fancy that there's this 'special bond of closeness' that exists that most mothers and sons don't have, they usually have good relationships with their DILs and their sons. When they can't let go, the men find a way to escape, either by 'zoning out', staying away, lying, or throwing their wives under the bus.

The men DON'T keep up their end of the relationship, because they don't want the relationship their mothers long for. They love her and they want a relationship, but not that kind of relationship. And everyone gets confused by what's really going on because it feels to everyone like a love triangle, without the sexual attraction. You have the jealous spurned woman, the new love interest and the guy in the middle--but no one calls it what it is because it's not sexual. And yet the emotions are exactly the same.

Unless you've been a victim of these desperate MILs, you would pity them. They are generally unloved, left behind women. They don't have healthy partnerships as a general rule. They generally don't have a good support system. They are looking for that that absolute love, trust, and acceptance that everyone wants, they are just looking for it in the wrong place, and they want it on their terms, from the all powerful mother who holds all the cards and the ultimate authority in the relationship (as they had when their sons were little) from a man who can take care of himself and her as well. They generally cannot deal with real relationships with imperfect men and give and take. They have the development of a toddler and a toddler's understanding: black and white, idealized and full of fantasy.

And it's a continuum: some of these clingy, needy MILs are only troubled a little by these misplaced affections, and some are completely immersed and some regress to this when they are stressed or feeling vulnerable.

This doesn't explain all MIL-DIL problems. Their are some disturbed DILs out there, no doubt. This doesn't explain just plain nasty, or mentally ill, or character disordered MILs (altho it can). And doesn't explain those who have very little interest in their families and grandchildren. Or those who have trouble facing the empty nest, but who with a little prodding, do build satisfying lives and healthy relationships. But it does explain one dynamic of the MIL-Son-DIL triangle.

This is what I learned in therapy. I did not learn how to correct the problem without a lot of pain being felt by everyone.

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« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 09:08:47 PM by barelythere »

LaurieS

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 ;D Gee.. I didn't realize that I had that many problems.. I'm glad she set me straight that this was a sexless love triangle.  Whew I was worried for a minute.

While I'm not kidding myself and thinking that my son wants to sit on my lap while I sing him lullaby's I disagree with this woman that son's just want to be cut free.  That they've outgrown their families and can now only concentrate on their wives.  I know for a fact that most want to have a good loving relationship with their families as well.

Wonder if this woman feels the same about her relationship with her own parents.. or does she still want to marry her daddy and sees that as acceptable.. Would she be as demanding in tone if all the son's insertions were changed to daughter's.. and I'm sure the person who posted this must really feel secure in her marriage if she feels that she is tossed under the bus because hubby could not communicate with his mommy. 

I love this line, "DILs sense the same danger to their marriages as they would from any other woman who is determined to get their husbands".  Yep this sounds like a mentally balanced individual. Makes you wonder if she will feel the need to compete with her own daughter one day for this man's affection. 

 

barelythere

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Couldn't agree with you more, Laurie.

Offline luise.volta

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I think there are some truths (for me) in that take on the mother/son thing. I can see myself, way back when, as immature and insecure when I had my eldest son. I can pick up on being too involved in his every move and too dependent on his adoration. I was just a "kid" myself in many ways and a long way from being a Wise Woman.

Like any other premise, it may have been overstated to make a point. Many of us grow up with our children, just like our parents grew up with us. We don't necessarily grow into being inept...but out of it.

I would be more inclined (again this is just me) to look more closely at the possible disappointment a son might come up against when his all-powerful (in his eyes,) all-knowing, all-everything mom becomes a human in his eyes and fallible.

On some level, she is a love object in a way a daughter isn't. Tough to deal with for some guys and it may be that ending the relationship and making it the mother's fault has great appeal. A new female appears and Joila...problem solved! (Not really, of course.)

I'm talking mostly about the unconscious and unresolved stuff that often motivates and rules. Not easy to get to and address, especially in men who don't process and express emotions well and were taught, often by example, that it's not manly. The new female (wife) can become the all-powerful one. Confusing and daunting to be caught between the two? Probably. And where does it look like survival lies?




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cremebrulee

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I think there are some truths (for me) in that take on the mother/son thing. I can see myself, way back when, as immature and insecure when I had my eldest son. I can pick up on being too involved in his every move and too dependent on his adoration. I was just a "kid" myself in many ways and a long way from being a Wise Woman.

Like any other premise, it may have been overstated to make a point. Many of us grow up with our children, just like our parents grew up with us. We don't necessarily grow into being inept...but out of it.

I would be more inclined (again this is just me) to look more closely at the possible disappointment a son might come up against when his all-powerful (in his eyes,) all-knowing, all-everything mom becomes a human in his eyes and fallible.

On some level, she is a love object in a way a daughter isn't. Tough to deal with for some guys and it may be that ending the relationship and making it the mother's fault has great appeal. A new female appears and Joila...problem solved! (Not really, of course.)

I'm talking mostly about the unconscious and unresolved stuff that often motivates and rules. Not easy to get to and address, especially in men who don't process and express emotions well and were taught, often by example, that it's not manly. The new female (wife) can become the all-powerful one. Confusing and daunting to be caught between the two? Probably. And where does it look like survival lies?

very well said Luise, I really wish I possessed the ability to write like  you do...you say so much with so few words...I write and write and still misunderstood...to me, that is a real writting talent...

Very well said...

and agree with you...except I never thought of the last paragraph, very thought provoking...thank you

Offline luise.volta

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Thanks, Creme - It's a thought process, I guess. I think about an issue and somehow a distilled "bottom line" comes up for me minus the "stuff."

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Offline Pen

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I'm not a clingy sick-o for wanting to have a normal relationship with my son as well my daughter, and I agree with BT that most DSs want to continue a normal, adult relationship with their FsOO as well.

However, I think that Luise has a valid point. That unhealthy dynamic was present between my DF & his mom (my GM) and my DM.

Unfortunately, the article could perpetuate some stereotypes about mothers and MILs that aren't usually true.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

1Glitterati

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I think there's a great deal of truth in some of it.  I think it's very true that many sons don't want the same relationship that their mother wants and that they mother perceives a way more close relationship than the son does.  I absolutely think there is a lot of truth in that.

Offline luise.volta

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Yes, Pen, we have to be very careful about stereotyping. It gets us nowhere and causes a lot of additional problems. Sending love...

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Offline Hope

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Hmmmmmmmm.  I can only speak for myself, but I think I don't stand alone.  My ds & I had a mutually comfortable, warm relationship into adulthood.  However, his independent nature got the best of him when he was nineteen or twenty and he announced that he was moving out. I realized that it was healthy for a young adult to strive for independence and I supported him 100%.   I immediately offered to give him his bedroom suite he currently was using and a microwave w/stand, and some towels, etc.  We bought him a coffee maker and a large box of food to get him started.  I made it clear that he was always welcome to stop by for dinner.  He never invited us over and we never pushed - we saw his apartments when we helped him move in and that was it.  We gave him his space and only called occassionally to see how he was doing.  He visited once in a while.  We never crowded him, but he usually was available for occassional invitations we offered and we acted thrilled to see him when we were together.  Then came dil who upon the wedding day refused to answer any calls - the attempted calls being infrequent.  Eventually ds wouldn't answer his phone as well upon infrequent attempts.  Never any initiation from either of them to contact me or stop by and visit us.  Dil pushed back every time we tried to arrange family birthday gatherings.  Trying to find an agreeable time to celebrate Christmas began to be a real challenge due to her lack of cooperation.  I was not looking to compete with dil - I simply wanted to have a whole family - not a fractured one.  Love triangle?  Not quite.  I do agree, though, that men are more apt to separate themselves from their foo b/c of their need to be independent. The counselor of that dil sounds very biased and I wonder if she has any adult sons herself.  It doesn't sound like she relates to mil's at all.
Hugs, Hope
Hugs, Hope

Offline Pen

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Well said, Hope.

I wonder what the age limit is? I mean, if we abandon our sons under the age of 17? 15? we're liable to be arrested and charged with child abuse, even if those boys are able to take care of themselves. At the very least we'd be looked at as very bad mothers. Is 18 the limit? Our DS still needed and requested our financial help and advice until he was a married 22 year old. Is that the limit? My friend's son is the same age (though unmarried) and still has a good relationship with his mom. Should she push him away for the sake of his mental health? With so many variables, how are we to know what's appropriate and what's not?

I guess my point is: a counselor should know better than to set limits and promote stereotypes since every family is different.

DILs should allow their DHs the freedom to either maintain or cut off their ties with their FOOs without any editorializing. That means no game playing, no eye rolling, no foot stomping, no drama, no calling every two minutes when he's visiting his family, no subtle inferences about the FsOO, etc. etc. We've been through all of that and then some. DS had to step up and did do so, finally. Things are improving.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Offline Hope

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Pen,
That's great news that your ds is stepping up and you are seeing improvement.  Any improvement is a step in the right direction.  :)   I am so happy for you!  I was just talking to my sister who has experience at this and has had a measure of success and she was saying that if the ds doesn't get involved, there's no way a disgruntled dil will care enough to try to include her in-laws.....at all.  She says that if you are waiting to get your dil's approval, you might as well forget it.  Her theory is that the key is your ds.  To remove yourself from the situation and not to initiate contact with ds/dil at all, then after time (maybe a long time), ds will finally notice and initiate the contact himself - plus he will stick up for you.  If your ds doesn't stick up for you, your sunk.  So, I am sooooooo pleased to hear that things are changing for you.  Imagine a big smile on my face.
Hugs, Hope
Hugs, Hope

Offline Nana

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Good pen.....there you go....one stepforward.

Love
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove:
Shakespeare

barelythere

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This was written by a DIL who had learned in therapy what was wrong with her MIL. Very hard to read and below the belt, I think.

I would hope that no professional councilor would give advice this slanted and harsh.  Since this is  how a DIL heard and translated it, I am under the personal view that it holds no more professional weight then any of our own opinions.

I think there's a great deal of truth in some of it.  I think it's very true that many sons don't want the same relationship that their mother wants and that they mother perceives a way more close relationship than the son does.  I absolutely think there is a lot of truth in that.

This could be even more generalized.. It's possible that men don't want the same relationships that women want.  This could be the mastermind plan.. while women are concerned with hurt feelings and conflicts with their dil/mil.. no one is noticing that the man person is sitting back watching that football game without  being asked to do some chore.


I would hope that no professional councilor would give advice this slanted and harsh.  Since this is  how a DIL heard and translated it, I am under the personal view that it holds no more professional weight then any of our own opinions.
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I agree, Laurie.  I am beginning to wonder about counselors period.  They seem to validate what you want to hear.  I mean no disrespect to them but I don't understand because many times a talk with a valued friend can be just as valuable. Problem is, the friend gets really tired of listening therefore, we are relegated to counselors.  A really good friend will kindly tell you where you are off base or where you might be thinking from your own prospective.

cdb

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 "I know for a fact that most want to have a good loving relationship with their families as well." I am blessed that this is what my son wants and also that my daughter in law and I get along well. I did however, remind myself of boundaries and was wise enough to know about them and consciously get myself to keep these boundaries in line. I too learned more healthy boundaries here from many members.  Thanks for that.
"I'm talking mostly about the unconscious and unresolved stuff that often motivates and rules" by Luis,,,This is a short version of what is going on with my daughter and me now. Thanks for this sentence that hit the nail of the head for me.
I have been finally decided on what I want to do and not what my counselor says. Even though I have seen her for years, I realize that she does not see or live my life. I have learned so much here from you members too. Counselors are people too. And there are some bad, some good and some that just don't fit our needs. That is why it helps to change counselors too (which I have done many times over my lifetime). If it weren't for my chronic depression, I would not need any. But they do help me with the depression.
And my heart goes out to HOPE. I know what it feels like to help my daughter and then go trhough the abandonment stuff. Hopefully in time, when they are older, they may see things differently and come around. For now, all we can do is help each other and take care of us.
Great post! cdb