Suggestions please

[mamacita]

I recently learned of something by accident due to a Facebook snafu (my daughter's-in-law private message to one of her friends somehow showed up on my wall).  She commented about her mother-in-law (me) that let me know she wasn't happy with me.  I sent her a private message, and apologized for hurting her feelings, though I didn't know what she took offense to, or when (I also didn't know it had been a private message until she told me so - neither one of us knows how the message appeared on my wall).  She commented that perhaps I didn't realize how I sometimes come across (I can accept that, though I believe it works both ways), and went on to say it can sometimes seem "snotty."  A few months ago, I was previously made aware of some marital strife (my son, without provocation, vented during a brief visit), but commented to him that they were still newlyweds (their relationship is still fairly new - they've been together since 2007, married since 2008), they just had a baby, and that she was probably adjusting to all the changes (including that she lost her job during her pregnancy, and is now a full-time mother - something I actually think is a great vocation).  He said they had already talked of divorce, and I basically told him not to think like that.  Anyway, I know she doesn't get along very well with her mother, and isn't too fond of her step-father.  She and her father get along well...almost too well, as I get the impression neither thinks the other is capable of ever doing any wrong of any sort.  I've seen some family dynamics that are concerning, and that feeling was worsened at my granddaughter's first birthday.  During cleanup, my son (when only my husband, I, and his siblings were around) started venting (without provocation) that her family does nothing but backbite every time they get together, and he can't stand it.   He said he stays out of the line of fire by grilling, or doing something else to avoid being around it.  He said she complains about everything, and he wasn't looking forward to hearing about what she didn't like at the party (though I thought she did a nice job, and said so).  Anyway, I commented something along the lines of, "Sorry to hear that," but was thinking, "Oh, golly!  That's not good!"  Anyway, despite that I've apologized for things I may have unknowingly said that offended my daughter-in-law, I get the impression I'll be walking on eggshells for a while.  I truly believe that what I (or the paternal side of the family) say, don't say, do, don't do will be held against us, and responded with by avoidance.  From where we stand, that seems like thinly-guised anger used as an excuse to keep us from having a relationship with our son (brother), and granddaughter (niece), or even her, for that matter.  To my knowledge, her father gets to see the granddaughter frequently, as do other select members of her family (not her mother, though).  I can understand having to work at keeping an open door, but believe it works both ways.  Suggestions?

[luise.volta]

It works both ways if it does. (Some doors only swing one way.) Don't look for justice or equality and your will fare much better. For example, apologizing for "whatever" was smart.

It is often so hard at first to stick it out, grow up and learn that there is no perfection (in others or in ourselves.) Sending love...

[miss_priss]

I truly believe that what I (or the paternal side of the family) say, don't say, do, don't do will be held against us, and responded with by avoidance.  From where we stand, that seems like thinly-guised anger used as an excuse to keep us from having a relationship with our son (brother), and granddaughter (niece), or even her, for that matter.

Hi Mamacita - I don't know what else to say, other than try not to read too much into things before they come to fruition.  I am sensing some pre-aprehension regarding your DIL's motives.  While you may indeed be right, you could be wrong too.  And I strongly believe that sometimes we "make" things happen when we disect and pre-play things that haven't happened yet. 

Regarding her facebook comment....ugh.  I used to like facebook until my own MIL started to use it as a "witch-hunt" to see who's doing who, who said what, to stalk me and my family and friends, and when she started to use it to post lies and incomplete truths regarding why she is no longer allowed inside our home to gain sympathy from her pool of sympathizers.  And especially when her posts and "likes" started to seem very targeted and violent (Example:  "<MIL> likes:  If you hurt my son, I will make your death look like an accident," and <MIL> likes: The only reason I haven't killed you by now is because it's illegal.").  Seriously, I should just copy and paste her list of "likes" into this post.  Your jaw would drop.  And this is the same person who posts a "daily bible verse" as her facebook status.  A spade is a spade, as they say. 

Facebook has been an awesome tool in helping me keep in touch with military friends, and other friends and family that I don't get to see often.  But IMHO, when you post personal things, especially about others on FB, you're just asking for trouble.  Nothing is really "private."

As far as a resolution, I think you've already done what you could do with the "blanket apology" for whatever made her mad.  The key now is to let it go and don't harp on it, and especially don't let that instance create a world of "what if's" inside your own head that may or may not come to fruition. 

[Sassy]

I think you are handling the situation well.  I think your son and his wife are in a troubled marriage.    I think it is more likely that what you are experiencing with DIL may be a fallout of sorts from that, rather than a disguised plot to keep you from your son.   

A husband who complains about his wife a lot, and who complains specifically to people whom he would seem to have a vested interest in them getting along with her, is not the sign of a happy marriage or a savvy husband.  By him telling you what bad folks he thinks his wife and her family are, he is setting up your (and your husband's, his siblings') relationship with her for failure as well.   After hearing a few rounds of that from someone who picked her as a wife, it's no wonder you question her motives.   

During cleanup, my son (when only my husband, I, and his siblings were around) started venting (without provocation) that her family does nothing but backbite every time they get together, and he can't stand it.   He said he stays out of the line of fire by grilling, or doing something else to avoid being around it.  He said she complains about everything, and he wasn't looking forward to hearing about what she didn't like at the party (though I thought she did a nice job, and said so).

My mouth fell open at the sad irony of him complaining to his parents and siblings ata get-together, about how her family is so backbiting at get togthers.  That is one of his new family's traditions it would be better if he didn't decide to partake in! 

I don't know what your relationship with your son is like, and as his mother I imagine you want to be a there for him when he needs an ear.   But it might be a time to decide between being friend or family, not both.  When people start gossiping to me about someone I want (need) to get along with, I tell them that type of talk is nothing to share with me.  This includes my sister complaining to me about her baby's father.  He's in my life, just like he's in hers. She's come to realize that I won't listen to her complaints about him, because while she can forgive his sins against her once the clouds pass, I cannot so readily because I am not seduced by him like she is.    If I have to eat with him regularly, greet him with hugs, give the guy Christmas presents around the tree, then I'm not the one for her to bring personal complaints about him to.   If the loved one is very distraught,  I recommend they talk to a trained professional to sort through their feelings.

[mamacita]

miss_priss - I don't want to jump to conclusions and create "what if" situations in my head, but it's practically impossible not to question it being the reason why we hardly ever see any of them.  She definitely doesn't have a problem getting together with her friends and family (with the exception of her mother).  That's not a subjective opinion, it's an objective reality.  Also, as a MIL who comments on Facebook, it's possible my DIL takes it as a form of stalking (the only reason I say this is because of how you felt as a DIL - something I haven't intended to make anybody feel, but one never knows how the other may take it).  For instance, I got a message from her a couple of days ago, in response to a comment I made (after one of hers, in response to hers, not to the person originally commenting).  Her message said that unless I specifically know the person, I shouldn't say anything...that the friend she had commented to didn't know who I was (by the way, I didn't return a message, as I don't want to make things worse).  All I know was there was a comment box available for commenting (note - I'm not an expert with Facebook, but my understanding is that if you're not "friends" with someone, the comment box isn't available).  Anyway, the comment had to do with a hunting goods store that isn't in our area (the friend had won a gift certificate to a store she had never heard of).  My remark was that it was in a neighboring state (noting that we get the store's flyer in our Sunday paper), and gave another hunting goods store's equivalent in our area.  I meant no harm by it, nor meant to make anybody feel uncomfortable.  The fact is, I do this sort of thing all the time with ALL my friends/family.  (The passive/aggressive stuff you described with your MIL is a whole different subject - I don't have any "likes" as she did).  Even so, some people can be very touchy about comments (well, so far, it's only been her).  Though not my strong point, I ultimately pick up on vibes - and my gut has been screaming about some type of tension for a while.  I've wrote it off as my son working lots of hours, preparation for the wedding, the adjustment of newlyweds, pregnancy, having just had a baby, her having lost her job and being a full-time homemaker (something I put value on, and think she's done a good job with), and moving (we've helped them move all three times since 2007).  Other family members have mentioned the tension, too.  I'm not looking to create a situation - it's just there. 

Sassy may have hit the nail on the head.  Maybe things aren't so good between my DIL and my son.  (By the way, he's vented to me twice.  I've stayed middle-of-the-road, and given quick responses that let him know I heard his remark, but am not going to encourage the sort of thinking I think can lead to divorce - something he originally said they had discussed [and I discouraged].  Now whether he speaks with his friends about his home life, I don't know.  Whether she speaks with any of her family and friends about it, I don't know.  All I know is what I've encountered.)  Anyway, I agree with your remark about the venting not helping the situation...it doesn't encourage bonding with anybody.  Even so, BEFORE any of the venting took place, tension existed.  If it did anything, it made me realize the feeling we were experiencing wasn't a figment of our imaginations.  By the way, I feel I should mention something else that came to mind.  Besides having grown children, I also have a 4 year old (later in life baby).  He's a very outspoken, lively child.  My DIL previously told one of my daughters that she doesn't like him (because he's "loud" - he's lively, and always has been), and said she thinks he's autistic (something she had suggested to her husband - not to me - when my youngest son was barely 2).  I don't know why, but my gut feeling is that she's saying it as a put down.  Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with a child with autism - I already have a grown child (from another marriage) that's autistic (high functioning, though), and I work with children that have autism.  And, I know no cure exists...only methods of dealing with the child to help them function as highly as possible.  I (personally) don't believe in administering drugs unless they're ABSOLUTELY necessary (too many side effects, no thank you).  Sometimes diet can help, but there's still no "cure."  Anyway, the point is that I don't see the need of saying you don't like someone's little brother, because they don't fit your idea of a "perfect" child. 

louise.volta said it well, too.  It's so hard to stick it out, to grow up and learn there's no perfection in others (or in ourselves). 

[cremebrulee]

mamacita
Also, as a MIL who comments on Facebook, it's possible my DIL takes it as a form of stalking (the only reason I say this is because of how you felt as a DIL - something I haven't intended to make anybody feel, but one never knows how the other may take it).  For instance, I got a message from her a couple of days ago, in response to a comment I made (after one of hers, in response to hers, not to the person originally commenting).  Her message said that unless I specifically know the person, I shouldn't say anything...that the friend she had commented to didn't know who I was (by the way, I didn't return a message, as I don't want to make things worse).  All I know was there was a comment box available for commenting (note - I'm not an expert with Facebook, but my understanding is that if you're not "friends" with someone, the comment box isn't available). 

I think you have bought two very important issues here to the table....
First, yes, you are so correct, in the fact that some people might consider it stalking...and some of us would react to that, "oh, that's just silly, I'm not stalking, this is me, who I am and what I do, and she's just going to have to get used to it..", however, we need to respect the fact that, that is HER facebook, and while she did accept us as a friend, doesn't mean they want us in there responding to them...we are NOT they're friends...we are there mother in laws, nothing more, nothing less, we are not entitled to intrude in they're lives, just for that reason...we did and do our sons...but that must stop to....

the second thing is, I commend you for not responding to her...most of us upon receiving a message like that would be to write back to her and defend ourselves...and our actions, telling her we didn't mean it that way, but if we do, what our response says to her is..."Your silly for thinking that, and I'm not doing this to hurt you, however, I won't respect your boundaries and will continue to do so, b/c I'm not wrong, your wrong for feeling the way you are"

You did a great think by not responding and defending your actions, b/c no matter what, she would never be able to see your side of it, not now anyway, and by not responding, your telling her you are respecting her needs...

Very wise of you....

Just b/c they accept as a friend on they're facebook, doesn't entitle us to overstep boundaries....I choose to stay away, and allow them to chat with they're friends....and will continue to keep staying out of they're facebook, b/c I'm they're mother and they don't need mom in there, they're having fun with they're friends...

My on girlfriend who gets along famiously with her DIL's are able to do this, and yanno what, it makes them like her all the more...and want her around, b/c she respects boundaries and is thinking of them...first...but to, she is that way...so, she's way ahead of the game...

I've learned a lot from her...she constantly says her DIL's have they're own families...they are busy, they don't need her constantly calling them or interferring, and she actually gets her GC, much more then she would like...I mean, we always say yes, we'll take the kids, b/c they are part of us, but in the  same, it is very tiring, even though we'd never say no...

louise.volta said it well, too.  It's so hard to stick it out, to grow up and learn there's no perfection in others (or in ourselves).

This right here, was one of the hardest things for me to learn...I thought my ideas about doing things and feeling the way I did, was actually the way everyone thought, and it is not...
and created so many of my own problems with relationships withh others, not simply family...

another point, I thought worthwhile...when we overstep boundaries...hmmm, let  me use my neighbor as a for instance...I'm annoyed and angry with her because she is overstepping boundaries, but  what upsets me the most, is, that she is putting me in a position, where now, she is making me tell her, enough...that I have to sit down and tell her, you have to stop...everyone hates confrontation...and usually by the time, someone tells us, to back off, it's gotten to the point of utter annoyance and dislike...
so, now, I'm to the point that I  have to have a talk with her, she is not going to understand and be hurt, and I hate more then anything else to hurt her feelings, but I must, and that is what is upsetting me the most...which is something I think we all have to consider in situations like this....it isn't easy for a MIL or a DIL to say,  stop this, I don't like it...doesn't mean, your wrong, means, it is annoying her...b/c she feels differently about this issue...and for the record, I don't think you were wrong in stepping in and trying to help, however, I'm thinking  she viewed it, as this is her friend not yours....

I've heard people say they are very privet people, which means, they don't want everyone having access to they're facebook, doesn't mean they don't like us...just means, they don't know you so, why would  you be commenting...granted, I find  it a bit strange, but that doesn't mean I should exclude her feeling and just carry on as if they are not valid.  That is what upset people the most, is that we refuse to hear they're words...and dismiss their feelings as silly or unacceptable...

mamacita
I think for what it's worth, that you handled the situation very well....
when it comes to family, we've got to learn to sit back be patient and allow them to work it out...as much as we want to protect them, we've got to  allow them to make mistakes and learn, just as we have...

[barelythere]

mamacita
Also, as a MIL who comments on Facebook, it's possible my DIL takes it as a form of stalking (the only reason I say this is because of how you felt as a DIL - something I haven't intended to make anybody feel, but one never knows how the other may take it).  For instance, I got a message from her a couple of days ago, in response to a comment I made (after one of hers, in response to hers, not to the person originally commenting).  Her message said that unless I specifically know the person, I shouldn't say anything...that the friend she had commented to didn't know who I was (by the way, I didn't return a message, as I don't want to make things worse).  All I know was there was a comment box available for commenting (note - I'm not an expert with Facebook, but my understanding is that if you're not "friends" with someone, the comment box isn't available). 

I think you have bought two very important issues here to the table....
First, yes, you are so correct, in the fact that some people might consider it stalking...and some of us would react to that, "oh, that's just silly, I'm not stalking, this is me, who I am and what I do, and she's just going to have to get used to it..", however, we need to respect the fact that, that is HER facebook, and while she did accept us as a friend, doesn't mean they want us in there responding to them...we are NOT they're friends...

the second thing is, I commend you for not responding to her...most of us upon receiving a message like that would be to write back to her and defend ourselves...and our actions, telling her we didn't mean it that way, but if we do, what our response says to her is..."Your silly for thinking that, and I'm not doing this to hurt you, however, I won't respect your boundaries and will continue to do so, b/c I'm not wrong, your wrong for feeling the way you are"

You did a great think by not responding and defending your actions, b/c no matter what, she would never be able to see your side of it, not now anyway, and by not responding, your telling her you are respecting her needs...

Very wise of you....

Just b/c they accept as a friend on they're facebook, doesn't entitle us to overstep boundaries....I choose to stay away, and allow them to chat with they're friends....and will continue to keep staying out of they're facebook, b/c I'm they're mother and they don't need mom in there, they're having fun with they're friends...

My on girlfriend who gets along famiously with her DIL's are able to do this, and yanno what, it makes them like her all the more...and want her around, b/c she respects boundaries and is thinking of them...first...but to, she is that way...so, she's way ahead of the game...

I've learned a lot from her...she constantly says her DIL's have they're own families...they are busy, they don't need her constantly calling them or interferring, and she actually gets her GC, much more then she would like...I mean, we always say yes, we'll take the kids, b/c they are part of us, but in the  same, it is very tiring, even though we'd never say no...

louise.volta said it well, too.  It's so hard to stick it out, to grow up and learn there's no perfection in others (or in ourselves).

This right here, was one of the hardest things for me to learn...I thought my ideas about doing things and feeling the way I did, was actually the way everyone thought, and it is not...
and created so many of my own problems with relationships withh others, not simply family...

another point, I thought worthwhile...when we overstep boundaries...hmmm, let  me use my neighbor as a for instance...I'm annoyed and angry with her because she is overstepping boundaries, but  what upsets me the most, is, that she is putting me in a position, where now, she is making me tell her, enough...that I have to sit down and tell her, you have to stop...everyone hates confrontation...and usually by the time, someone tells us, to back off, it's gotten to the point of utter annoyance and dislike...
so, now, I'm to the point that I  have to have a talk with her, she is not going to understand and be hurt, and I hate more then anything else to hurt her feelings, but I must, and that is what is upsetting me the most...which is something I think we all have to consider in situations like this....it isn't easy for a MIL or a DIL to say,  stop this, I don't like it...doesn't mean, your wrong, means, it is annoying her...b/c she feels differently about this issue...and for the record, I don't think you were wrong in stepping in and trying to help, however, I'm thinking  she viewed it, as this is her friend not yours....

I've heard people say they are very privet people, which means, they don't want everyone having access to they're facebook, doesn't mean they don't like us...just means, they don't know you so, why would  you be commenting...granted, I find  it a bit strange, but that doesn't mean I should exclude her feeling and just carry on as if they are not valid.  That is what upset people the most, is that we refuse to hear they're words...and dismiss their feelings as silly or unacceptable...

Yes, I think this is right. I think she felt stalked by me on Facebook.  She is the one who friended me and in my enthusiam, I overstepped my bounds those 3 times.  I'm afraid I've damaged our relationship  forever and it's all because of complete ignorance on my part.  Jumping in and complimenting both of them while they were talking to others has just runined whatever little there was there to begin with.  I have not heard from them at all since.  It was always fragile.  I'm feeling like I'll never get to see my GC again.  :'(

[cremebrulee]

barelythere  Yes, I think this is right. I think she felt stalked by me on Facebook.  She is the one who friended me and in my enthusiam, I overstepped my bounds those 3 times.  I'm afraid I've damaged our relationship  forever and it's all because of complete ignorance on my part.  Jumping in and complimenting both of them while they were talking to others has just runined whatever little there was there to begin with.  I have not heard from them at all since.  It was always fragile.  I'm feeling like I'll never get to see my GC again.  :'(

You only damaged the relationship if you think you did...what you are doing now, is listening and understanding...considering her feelings...and I don't believe all is lost once you get to this point. 
Don't defend yourself...and why you did what you did...you didn't do anything wrong...however, what you did, was offend her, and now you are able to see, and understand, as silly as it may seem, you offended her...so, by not writing  her back in defense, is relating to her, that

1.  you were wrong, not in what you did, but in disregarding how she might have taken your action

2.  you are now able to consider her feelings...

3.  you realize you are the mother, and have no business in her Facebook as much as you are....when it's her birthday, jump in after someone else has already posted and give her a Happy Birthday...that's it...you have your own friends, and she has hers...which is normal and perfectly healthy, respect that and view her as an individual, not your son's wife...but view your son's family as HER family...

4.  Also be able to view her thoughts, while you might think you are being a caring MIL, she may view some of your actions as smothering and co-dependent on them for fulfillment and happiness, and no one can fulfill that but you...

4.  it shows consideration for her as an individual human being, and respecting the fact that there are and always must be boundaries...given time, she will understand...

When you are able to view situations like this, it shows and proves awareness, which you are no longer doing what you normally used to do and defy they're wishes, see, now what your doing is considering they're wishes, and the fact that they have needs and don't think and feel like you do...not that you are wrong, your not...however, you are not them and her....

eventually, if you keep practicing this, they will become curious, and even consider, that maybe you are getting it and test the waters, meaning, they will come back..., so you've got to start preparing yourself for that, and not overwhelm them, thinking, ok, now your entitled again...you are not and never will be, however, you can live in peace and harmony, by understanding this and apply it...in the meantime, what you must do, is keep learning...and practicing, breaking your old habits, which are just not comfortable for everyone...but they work for you...and your not wrong....it is who you are, but you're now learning to consider, courtesy and boundaries....which will win you nothing but reward.

and please understand, this will not apply to everyone here...and maybe barelythere, not even you, I'm just adding my two cents, and not suggesting your wrong...it's simply how other people view our actions...what your doing right now, is becoming aware of that...don't be scared, rejoice in the fact that your making progress, this is a milestone to admit this....do you see...?

I'm very proud of you....
it's onward and upward.

[barelythere]

Creme, I wrote her by email, an apology for chatting with her on Facebook and that I was so sorry!  Please forgive, etc.  She has just ignored me and what little interaction I had with her is gone.  I'm just heartbroken.   A friend of mine told me that this was just goofy and why did I apologize when I'd done nothing wrong in her mind?  She told me that I was loved and liked by others and that this is just crazy. That's easy for her to say, she has daughters and is not subject to dismissal at the slightest infraction.  My husband is upset at me for apologizing too.  What else could I do when they friended me and now have limited any interaction on SatanBook, which was about the only thing we had?  There was a school Grandparents Day which I was not invited to and heard about thru another friend.  Normally, because DIL is so into wanting her kids to have anything and everything that any others have, she'd have called and invited me to the school.  I'm done here.  :'(

[cremebrulee]

barelythere
Creme, I wrote her by email, an apology for chatting with her on Facebook and that I was so sorry!  Please forgive, etc.  She has just ignored me and what little interaction I had with her is gone.  I'm just heartbroken.   A friend of mine told me that this was just goofy and why did I apologize when I'd done nothing wrong in her mind?  She told me that I was loved and liked by others and that this is just crazy. That's easy for her to say, she has daughters and is not subject to dismissal at the slightest infraction.  My husband is upset at me for apologizing too.  What else could I do when they friended me and now have limited any interaction on SatanBook, which was about the only thing we had?  There was a school Grandparents Day which I was not invited to and heard about thru another friend.  Normally, because DIL is so into wanting her kids to have anything and everything that any others have, she'd have called and invited me to the school.  I'm done here.  :'(

No, you are not done here, you can't be done, b/c this is your son's wife...

Yes, this IS positively silly, you didn't do anything wrong...
however, she is young, immature, impressionable and wants to do things her way...while she may be wrong and silly, this is her feelings right now...

and yes, for all the reasons above, you should not have written her back and apologized...when you do that, first of all, she doesn't see it as you really being sorry, she is right now probably viewing it, as doing what you always do, but don't really get it...and what you didn't get was...you offended her...and that's ok, we're never going to go thru life, not offending  people.

When I look back at all the people I must offended by my actions and not even realized I did...well, can you see what I'm trying to say...I was and still am, cuz we're only human, caught up in only my beliefs and unable to identify the needs of others...

for instance...when my DIL, son and I would walk out of a resturant, she would grab him by the arm and walk way ahead of me...now b/c there were  problems, my first reaction was really deep hurt...then I became angry, and said, "she is the most rudest of people, and she is definately trying to let me know I am not welcome". 
When she and I talked about it, I told her this one thing...and  she went, "OMG, I'm going to have to change that, b/c I don't want to offend or hurt anyone".  I said, "well, you don't have to change it for me, now that I know it wasn't directed towards me, (and I point blankly told her that I thought she was telling me, I wasn't welcome) she was horrified and told me, she didn't want others to view her that way. 
Now when I told her this, I was scared, b/c she could have done the very same thing you have done and thrown her arms up in the air and said, "I'm done"....but she didn't...she prevailed and wanted to understand, rather then fight the fact, but really wanted to consider my feelings...and the feelings of others...

Don't be embarrassed, don't be hurt by communicating our feelings together like this...I'm not saying your wrong....what I'm saying is, this is the way she viewed things, and if I want peace, then I must consider that I could handle things differently. 

Barely there....when we are out in public, in the workforce, we clash with some people b/c of the fact, that we refuse to acknowledge that we have said or done something which they don't like...doesn't mean they are right and you are wrong...so, we can choose to avoid them and get on with our lives, so what happens is, we not only never realize, that while I thought one way and vocalized it, it offended or hurt they're feelings.  But when a family is thown togerther, you must try so hard to make it work....b/c it's family, and we also learn, which is so difficult, that, we had always been the mother, and we got our ways pretty much, b/c they were the child and they had to listen to us...of course, while growing up they were obediant...and our way was the only way....but now they are grown up adults, and they want to do things they're way....and we are not used to that, and it offends us, b/c we are older and the mothers, and we take much insult to the fact that they are not listening to us, and they are not, however, we are not realizing, that they need space...or they do have needs...we are so used to being the matron of the family and having our traditional needs met.  Do you realize, how many family members comply to our wishes and don't really want to be there but are, b/c they feel like they have to be or we will get upset....? 

Just that in itself, we as mothers sometimes fail to see...

If your going to say things like you give up, then you are beaten before you start...you are saying, I don't want to do this, I don't want to change, I don't want to consider my son's wife as an individual who did not grow up in our family and may not like all our traditions, phone calls, emails, etc.  It's not that she is wrong, or she dislikes you...she probably wishes things would be different, and she will change over time, as she grows older, but right now, what she is doing, is defending her identity...that's all...

[barelythere]

Creme, thank you.  She used to call me everyday as crazy as that sounds.  It's a complicated relationship where she will punish you for the least infraction.  I've watched her do that over the years. This time, it's me, she's done it before to me. One time it was for not telling her something about my other grandchild from my other son. She has to know everything and all must pass thru her. Her friends are all in the loop and are afraid to cross her.  If they want to be in the group, they don't make waves.   I'll get over it but my son, who we will always love, is lost in her money, power and control.  That's okay.  He will have to live with these consequences.  I've seen her fury and it is all consuming, scary and lethal. She appears kind, gentle and loving on the outside.  Her father told me one time that she was cruel.  I could not believe it at the time and thought the man was crazy, she seemed so sweet.  I see another side now.  Her cruelty knows no bounds.  I think that darling GD I loved so much is growing up just like her as most kids do.  Surely this cruelty is coming from insecurity?  I want so much to find an excuse.  It's like saying that a murderer had a hard life growing up and should be excused for the killing.  I don't want to be done but then again, what good is this relationship anyway?

[cremebrulee]

Creme, thank you.  She used to call me everyday as crazy as that sounds.  It's a complicated relationship where she will punish you for the least infraction.  I've watched her do that over the years. This time, it's me, she's done it before to me. One time it was for not telling her something about my other grandchild from my other son. She has to know everything and all must pass thru her. Her friends are all in the loop and are afraid to cross her.  If they want to be in the group, they don't make waves.   I'll get over it but my son, who we will always love, is lost in her money, power and control.  That's okay.  He will have to live with these consequences.  I've seen her fury and it is all consuming, scary and lethal. She appears kind, gentle and loving on the outside.  Her father told me one time that she was cruel.  I could not believe it at the time and thought the man was crazy, she seemed so sweet.  I see another side now.  Her cruelty knows no bounds.  I think that darling GD I loved so much is growing up just like her as most kids do.  Surely this cruelty is coming from insecurity?  I want so much to find an excuse.  It's like saying that a murderer had a hard life growing up and should be excused for the killing.  I don't want to be done but then again, what good is this relationship anyway?

yes, I can see your point...I've very sorry if I offened you or made you feel like you are the one that is being unreasonable, your not and, that was not my intent...

you have to do what is best for you...

I am not in your situation....it isn't mine...like everyone else here....all our situations are different...I get really enthusiastic and want to help...and in doing that I think I am making you feel like you have to defend your actions to me, and that's not what I'm trying to accomplish.

I'm very sorry and can absolutely see what your saying...and your not wrong...I hope you know I wasn't saying you were...

[mamacita]

Thanks for your responses, ladies.  It helps.  I've got a better understanding of my DIL's desire to set boundaries, and I'll do my best to respect that.  I guess I made the mistake of thinking of her as not only a DIL, but as a friend (as I do with my MIL).  Seriously, I feel like a schoolgirl friend with my MIL!  Even so, apparently I did what I did out of ignorance.  I wasn't setting out to "stalk."  Hopefully, she will be understanding of it, and will in time be open to the possibility that we really CAN be friends (not just in-laws)...if she wants to. 

[barelythere]

You did not offend me, Creme...I appreciate you so much!

[cremebrulee]

Thanks for your responses, ladies.  It helps.  I've got a better understanding of my DIL's desire to set boundaries, and I'll do my best to respect that.  I guess I made the mistake of thinking of her as not only a DIL, but as a friend (as I do with my MIL).  Seriously, I feel like a schoolgirl friend with my MIL!  Even so, apparently I did what I did out of ignorance.  I wasn't setting out to "stalk."  Hopefully, she will be understanding of it, and will in time be open to the possibility that we really CAN be friends (not just in-laws)...if she wants to.

I think she will...eventually, but it's going to take her a long time...it's not you, it's her...and the way she thinks about these things...how she was raised....some people just automatically click...and others, well, it takes a lot of patience and work...but honestly, I think you'll be fine eventually, but these thing sometimes takes years...growth and understanding people is a very slow process....really, and you didn't do anything wrong...