Unexpected "Gifts" from MIL

[cremebrulee]

I think you've got some exceptional advice here on this one....
something we must all remember though, it is very difficult for anyone to go against a parent...that is still his mother, and as dysfunctional as she is, I can understand why he wants to keep the door open...but for the sake of your relationship with you, he must understand the consequences of doing that...that it would hurt you both....

when my own mother treated me so badly....I still loved her/hated her....but always went back for more, until eventually realizing, she does the best that she can do mentally, and she will never change...so, I don't go back as much and try very hard to let things roll off me.

One very important thing your husband has to realize, his mother is not capable of love....b/c what she is doing, is NOT love....it is manipulation and control that she loves...she loves sabotaging her own life....it's who she is, and how she has learned to be....

I know you both would like a very natural relationship with her, but it cannot be.....

Good luck....

[GreatWhiteNorth]

This is yet another post that I could have written word for word. Even some of the replies, I live daily with the threat of MIL kidnapping my daughter as MIL has already tried at least twice.  I have had to keep my daughter in private school due to security measures because of MILs constant threat. I am scared to death of big school coming up in September because of MILs past kidnapping attempts, this is a fear that I would wish on any mother but I live with it daily.

MIL has never admitted to wrongdoing, still maintains that she is the victim of our lying daycare.

Know what I found when my DH and I went over there once? (MIL and FIL were on vacation, so it was safe), it was a new booster seat, one that only fits our daughter out of all the grandchildren sitting in MILs garage. I think MIL even has some fun with this...she knows what she did was wrong, I do believe that.

As for the gifts, we were getting those a while back and they just felt so "icky" and this morning we get a call from the evil due of MIL and FIL and FIL wants to know how much money we need to close our new house (we are moving in September, alot of big changes for us coming up).

It just creeps me out, I am not sure what he is getting at and I will wait to see in September, but my first though is that if they contribute somehow that in exchange the indebtedness of us is our DD (who MIL has been completely obsessed with since she was born). As if a couple hundred thousand dollars (my PILs are extremely wealthy people) would be a suitable exchange for the safety of my DD.

I say that because exposure to toxic MIL poses great risk, the munchausen by proxy, the extreme enmeshment, the trying to take over as mother, just the resentment MIL causes in our little family.

We have been doing so well by cutting out the toxicity, I was so enmeshed with MIL that my mental sanity was starting to look alot like hers.....
I just had to break away for my sake, for the sake of my family and how me being this enmeshed meant I was not really there for them, I was too busy living MILs life, focused on her dysfunction.

[Sassy]

he will have to face the rest of his family who will rally to her defense...he says he just can't deal with that anymore.  To me, its only their business if he allows it to be.  I personally have no problem telling anyone "sorry, that's between ourselves and MIL.  It's not your business." but he can't seem to do that, he never could. His family is very prying and feudal, that's just the way they are.    

       

As you know, this is not about gifts.   Perhaps DH can discuss with the counselor why he wants to keep the gifts, so someone neutral can walk him through his thought process. If he doesn't want to play, then he won't play.  However, it sounds like DH very much wants to play, and that he wants to keep that door open to her.

I strongly suggest you and DH speak to a Domestic Violence counselor. Living your life with the threat that MIL will kidnap your child is living with domestic violence.  If the counselor you're seeing is not trained in abuse, which is what this threat is, then she is not fully prepared to handle this situation.   Ask your counselor: "are you trained to specifically handle abuse and domestic violence." 

For you, I'd prepare yourself for how you will handle protecting yourself and your daughter from the next step it seems DH will want - to include her in his life.   Even if he says it's "just because" not doing so will make her angry enough that she would hurt your daughter. 

A threat need not be verbalized to be a Threat.  Even this "gift" is a threat.  Trust your gut.  You are not powerless.   Again, I suggest you talk to a Lawyer and talk to a trained Domestic Violence counselor. Even if your husband refuses to or is not interested in learning how to deal.   Take care of yourself and your DD, even if your DH doesn't.  Those resources are out there for you and your DD.  I hope you use them.  Sending you strength.

[luise.volta]

I feel the danger here may be your DH reluctance to face up to this onslaught. You need a united front or your MIL may drive a wedge between you. His inability to act positively for his family is something you can work out together. He is validating her power by fearing her retaliation. Take this to a counselor and create a united front. Action is required in my view. Sending love...

[pam1]

miss_priss, I know the struggle over gifts very well.  It's not easy and my heart goes out to you guys.  We go through this every gift giving occasion.  It's overwhelming and it's really not about the gifts, but about control.  It's not a good feeling.

I think sometimes you kind of have to give with your husbands, *you* can clearly see the price of the gift but your husband hasn't gotten to that point yet.  I think it may be easier for you to separate the box and tell him he can do with his gifts what he will but you're going to donate your child's side as you don't feel comfortable.  I think if you set the example eventually your husband will become more comfortable with setting his own boundaries.  I also think that sometimes husbands have to feel the brunt of their FOO's actions before they start realizing that they need to change and that this situation is not comfortable for all involved.

So if you quietly take yourself out of the picture and let him deal with it directly, it saves you peace of mind too.

[Pen]

This is yet another post that I could have written word for word. Even some of the replies, I live daily with the threat of MIL kidnapping my daughter as MIL has already tried at least twice.  I have had to keep my daughter in private school due to security measures because of MILs constant threat. I am scared to death of big school coming up in September because of MILs past kidnapping attempts, this is a fear that I would wish on any mother but I live with it daily.

MIL has never admitted to wrongdoing, still maintains that she is the victim of our lying daycare.

Know what I found when my DH and I went over there once? (MIL and FIL were on vacation, so it was safe), it was a new booster seat, one that only fits our daughter out of all the grandchildren sitting in MILs garage. I think MIL even has some fun with this...she knows what she did was wrong, I do believe that.

As for the gifts, we were getting those a while back and they just felt so "icky" and this morning we get a call from the evil due of MIL and FIL and FIL wants to know how much money we need to close our new house (we are moving in September, alot of big changes for us coming up).

It just creeps me out, I am not sure what he is getting at and I will wait to see in September, but my first though is that if they contribute somehow that in exchange the indebtedness of us is our DD (who MIL has been completely obsessed with since she was born). As if a couple hundred thousand dollars (my PILs are extremely wealthy people) would be a suitable exchange for the safety of my DD.

I say that because exposure to toxic MIL poses great risk, the munchausen by proxy, the extreme enmeshment, the trying to take over as mother, just the resentment MIL causes in our little family.

We have been doing so well by cutting out the toxicity, I was so enmeshed with MIL that my mental sanity was starting to look alot like hers.....
I just had to break away for my sake, for the sake of my family and how me being this enmeshed meant I was not really there for them, I was too busy living MILs life, focused on her dysfunction.

I totally agree that you have a mess on your hands here and valid concerns for regarding your daughter. However, I'm wondering why it's "OK" to go into IL's garage when they aren't there? If you want to break the enmeshment tangle, you must also respect their boundaries.

This is kind of an issue with me because DS & DIL have no problem using a key to get into our home whenever they like, but have never invited us to theirs. (DS has a key because he's our only relative in the area and we feel it's necessary for someone to be able to help in an emergency.)

[miss_priss]

Thank you all for the caring advice.  MILs strangle-hold on DH has always been an issue, in the years I've known him anyway.  But I do understand how hard it must be.  He doesn't want to close that door permanently.  He's STILL hopeful that she will come around, and therefore he doesn't want to make the situation worse by throwing her gifts back in her face.  I can somewhat understand his reasoning, she is his mother afterall, and if the shoe were on the other foot and this was my mother, I would be devastated.  I try to keep that in mind when we are discussing this recurring issue, but I am with you ladies:  I want to let her know, once and for all, that she cannot purchase forgiveness for all she's put us through, and the only apology we can accept now is for her to get Psychiatric help.  I would like to do it in a way that is sensitive and kind, but I realize this woman doesn't have the capacity to see beyond her own nose, and the simple idea of rejecting or donating these items will in itself send her into a rage.  DH realizes that too, and he doesn't want that to happen and therefore he cannot return/donate the gifts. 

At this point, I am prepared for the repercussions, from whatever way its handled.  DH wants me to trust him to handle it.  It's hard to do, because of the years that he...well, he just didn't, but instead, ignored the issue hoping it would go away.  Those years were hard on our relationship, and I feel like we're circling back there again.....which is exactly what she's wanting! 

All of the advice you awesome ladies have posted is exactly what needs to happen....the trouble is convincing DH that its the right thing to do.  When I make these same suggestions to him, he automatically rejects them and shuts down.  Any suggestions there?   

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Pen- We have a family business situation that is on the way of being completely resolved, so their garage is where alot of my husbands tools and such are for the business, the PILs at one point talked my DH who is an engineer out of his engineering career to work for their family business. That way they control his livelihood and keeping all the business supplies at their place is great way to ensure he always stops in.  He lined their pockets for years while they paid him peanuts.

I usually don't go anywhere near the place, and my DH takes a second trip when they are there to get stuff he needs for work, I didn't actually go in the house at all, the garage is separate and the house is locked even from the garage, he asked me to come in and talk to him while he was getting what he needed. I felt creepy being there to be honest.

Miss Priss-I use to run into this with my DH as well. I found that counselling really helped. I have read that admitting that your parents are evil (which many NPD actually are) is one of the hardest things for a child to be able to do.  Dr. Peck even suggested a second category for the variety of Narcissism called Malignant Narcissism to be instead called "evil personality disorder". It is about accepting who his parents are. It comes with time.

You have to remember that he grew up with this dysfunction all his life, starting at childhood in all likelihood. How does a child deal with dysfunction? they are not old enough to survive on their own. They typically form defense mechanisms and the more years that they have to employ these the stronger they get, but then what happens is they get older and even though the defense mechanisms are no longer needed they are still deeply engrained.

Then they marry someone who has not needed to form these defense mechanisms and that is where eye to eye is not seen. The spouse you see is not equipped with these defense mechanisms like he is. His home was likely very enmeshed and he likely learned to be enmeshed too. The enmeshment here is that he has these defense mechanisms and might just unconsciously think that you do as well, that everyone does as well. Likely one of his defense mechanisms was to view some of her dysfunction as normal, perhaps he had to pick his battles as a child and learned to let alot go and this has continued on.

As he understands the situation better the defense mechanisms will be spotted easier and as an adult he can choose to work through those and not use them anymore. It is hard work, but well worth it...

[Sassy]

Of course your DH loves his mother, wants her approval, and dreams of a good relationship with her.  What child of any age doesn't? 

BTW, my MIL is similar to yours in many ways.  She is relatively quite young, and always expected DH to pay her bills.   She showed up univited to our wedding wearing a black dress and veiled hat, on the arm of his ex-girlfriend (and they were escorted off premise by the off duty police we had hired for that purpose). She complains terribly and calls me "gold digger" to his Aunt and Grandmother, neither of whom came to our wedding.  Both of whom call him and alternately berate him and try to make him feel pity for her, and to tell him he should pay her bills.   She does try with his cousins but they see through her and still support DH (he is an only child).  Despite her flair for drama, I have never felt any physical danger from her.   Because of her money issues, I do however have multilevel security in place against any inquiries or applications for credit in our names, and get regular email updates about any changes made to our credit reports, just in case.

Your DH has a wife who sincerely fears physical danger from someone in her family.  He has a daughter who may be in danger of being abducted from her parents by her own grandmother.  He has a daughter whose grandmother put a member of your household on her payroll as an undercover spy to deceive you regarding the child.   Does he realize you live with a man who seems like he's once again becoming willing to put the women who need and trust him most in harm's way?  By exposing you and DD to it, he too is committing a sort of third-party violence against you both.  If it was a FIL who showed tendencies of being a sexual predator, (instead of a MIL who shows the tendencies to steal a baby from it's parents), and DH insited on including FIL in your lives,  that third-party responsibility may be more evident.

And the gifts?  I would not recommend sending dangerous people notes.  I would recommend donating the items to charity anyway.  It is bad energy in your house.  If you husband wants to keep her bribe, and use and enjoy it, that is the warning bell sounding.  Heed it and YOU learn how to defend yourself and your daughter from what's to come.

[luise.volta]

Blinders are dangerous.. as in not seeing where the gifts are leading and what they mean. As in not heeding the warning and acting accordingly. I agree that you need to extricate yourself from the "game" and have it be what it is... a mother targeting her son and his family and a son preferring head-in-sand to protecting his own or even acknowledging the threats. Her behavior isn't rational. Have any of your ever been overtly cruel and then followed it up by sending lavish gifts without communication or explanation?  No, of course not.