What to do?

[Julia]

Luise gave me good advice, she told me "take what you want and leave the rest."  Being brutally honest gives posters a different way of looking at their situation they might not have thought of.    No-one here says or gives the impression that the opinions we post here  is black and white and there isn't any shades of grey.    i tend to agree a "soft"  warning in the rules is a good idea, but posters also need  to know they are encouraged to reply if they don't agree but it must be done in a respectful manner or it is deleted.    Maybe a warning on the
new" thread page might be useful.  warning sounds a bit harsh but you get the picture.  Just my opinion.

[barelythere]

Hi ladies.  I found this thread very interesting.  I am honest too, but I am also very sensitive, & opinionated.  Sometimes these two traits just don't mix.  I do want to hear everything that that everyone has to say, but sometimes my feelings are hurt.  Other times I speak out very strongly about a post I have read, before taking the time to really think about it.  I have changed a lot since I first started posting.  I was hurt, confused, depressed, & I did want someone to tell me I did good, that it wasn't me.  I needed that at that time.  Newbie's are sometimes hurting a lot when they first post here, so maybe waiting a bit to be brutally honest is a good idea.  I know I had some posters who I felt were just being nasty to me, that they really didn't want to help me.  My life was in such a turmoil when I came here, I was easily hurt, I was so confused, I thought I was going crazy.  I needed the compassion that most of you ladies offered, & if you had been brutally honest back then I may have crawled into a corner, cried & cried, & never come back.  Compassion & caring go a long way, I know, thanx to most of the ladies here.   

Oh so true, Anna. Compassion is all we have as humans to separate us from other living things.  It's hard to find these days. 

[Nana]

Creme:

I agree with Anna.  To be brutally honest does not do good to a hurting soul.  I dont think that you have to agree with the person who posts, but we can support each other on this rocky road.  Some people are too sensitive and probably cannot deal with criticism (even if it is constructive).   It happens to everyone.  I think Creme, you are a great, extremely good  writer and have very good points, but I have felt at times you are a little harsh on some posters and I know that you are trying to help.  I sometimes read your posts and thought  "Öh my God"".  You quoted what the poster wrote and then expressed your opinion, and then another quote, and another opinion, and totally about 10 or 12 quotes; and it felt like the judgement day.  It happened a couple of months ago.  I think that you realized it because you have changed that.

It is only my opinion.


Love your posts though Creme

Hugs

[cremebrulee]

Nana link=topic=871.msg16874#msg16874 date=1282186193]
Creme:

I agree with Anna.  To be brutally honest does not do good to a hurting soul.  I dont think that you have to agree with the person who posts, but we can support each other on this rocky road.  Some people are too sensitive and probably cannot deal with criticism (even if it is constructive).   It happens to everyone.  I think Creme, you are a great, extremely good  writer and have very good points, but I have felt at times you are a little harsh on some posters and I know that you are trying to help.  I sometimes read your posts and thought  "Öh my God"".  You quoted what the poster wrote and then expressed your opinion, and then another quote, and another opinion, and totally about 10 or 12 quotes; and it felt like the judgement day.  It happened a couple of months ago.  I think that you realized it because you have changed that.

It is only my opinion.

Hi Nana, thanks so much for your post...and your opinion is very important...very important
it helps me see as your seeing and not from my eyes...

when I quote posts of others, it is what people do in forums....when people read, they see things that they want to comment on so they insert quotes and comment...I also noticed Miss Priss commented about that several times...however, please try and understand, if they don't quote the person's words, they might forget or overlook a topic to respond to....does that make sense....go into some other forums, and take a look...not MIL/DIL forums, but other topic forums....

When people are reading posts, within they're posts, there are many thoughts and points that come to mind, which I'd like to share...while you may view it as being harsh, I really don't see it that way...I'm not saying I'm right and your not wrong...however, my perception of answering these posts is 1. trying to help, and 2.  Quoting so I can remember what that person said....

I am unlike Anna or you....I want someone to come right out and tell me what is going on...I know, that when I'm personally involved in a situation, it is difficult to see the forest thru the trees....and if I post a question, I sure want you all to be honest with me, even if it does hurt, b/c I view that as helping the my healing process much quicker, by viewing my own mistakes.  I'm not trying to defend myself, but to explain to you why...

Not everyone feels like me....I hate the time I've wasted in sadness and self pity....to me, it is utterly unproductive time...and yes, everyone has they're own time, they're own place....but I am one who wants to get to the core of the problem and resolve it as quickly as possible.

So you see, while I do understand what your saying, and will take this into huge consideration when I post....I am posting the way I see it, feel it, and would want others to be with me, even if I do get hurt, I know, I'm going to think about it for a few days and conclude most likely that I am wrong....and that person was right...

Also, Nana, I was raised with all boys...so I'm very cut and dry...been that way all my life, a regular tom boy....and while my heart is compassionate, it may see like I'm not....because a lot of time, while I talk way to much in posts, I view them as a man might...

all these things doesn't excuse my actions, but perhaps will help you understand, that I'm not trying to hurt anyone, but more so help....

I promise, to continue to try to change my wording....so that I don't sound so harsh....

Supporting each other is a good thing, but sometimes support comes in words we don't always want to hear...

It took me 12 long very unproductive years to make things right with my dil...12 years Nana...so I guess what I'm trying to do is save someone else from taking that long....

I'm confident in many ways...have lived alone for a long time....very independent...and the older I get, the more set in my ways I get, and that is why this forum is good for me....so that I can continue to observe and apply what you have all said to my being....

Nana, we don't all perceive posts in the same way...we perceive them as who we are and how "we" feel about things...in other words, what might upset you about a post wouldn't upset me....so I ask that you would take that into consideration, along with the fact that I am compassionate and loving.  However, there are people who are extremely sensitive and take things the wrong way....which is difficult to know when we're writing in a forum....we're dealing with all kinds of different personalities and feelings....and I need to remember that...

I wasn't judging Nana, I was quoting so that I could completely analyse that one quote, which helps the poster understand what we're talking about, or at least it helps me...I have a health problem, which makes me forget a lot....so, by quoting and posting, it helps me be able to answer every question the person might have...does that make sense...?  I'm not judging them...but more so, giving them my point of view on what they are saying. 

I'm also going to tell you what was told to me once...when you post something on the internet, asking people for they're opinions, your not always going to get validation....your going to get people's honest opinions, which is pretty interesting when you go into other forums....and read....

also, we must remember, not to take things personal....but as someone simply communicating....this is such a common problem in the world today...people cannot communicate they're thoughts and feelings, b/c some get personally offended...

Also, I've been told over and over again, I'm very deep....sometimes to deep for some to follow and I overwhelm people....I don't see it as being deep, but as looking beyond the question to another and another...finding it interesting, which to, the human phsyc is extremely interesting...guess that is why I so worship Einstein....he looked much deeper then most people....I go beyond the answer to another question?  Which is probably irritating to a lot of people...

I to remember the harsh pain of loss, the feelings of "am I going crazy?", is it me?  What did I do to deserve this...the remorse, the feelings of incompetence and fear....most of all fear....so, I will so try to remember what you and Anna have said....however, please also try to remember, what we have to ask ourselves is....

1.  Do we really want answers and to fix the problem if we can?
or
2.  Do we simply seek only validation and sympathy and are not really looking for answers, more so, only want to complain? 

So, I thank you Anna and Nana, for telling me, something that maybe you feared telling me...it's ok, I want to know, that's why I posted this thread...we don't know until we ask others....I will try to do better....

[barelythere]

Hi Creme.  I'm not saying don't be honest, I'm just saying that when I first came here, it was the compassion, & the understanding  that brought me back.  If I was pelted with brutal honesty at that time I may never have posted again.  Compassion first, brutal honesty second?
I absolutely want answers to fix problems, but I also want sympathy, understanding & compassion!  I do like to come here & just vent, especially when I'm steamed up about something that has happened & I have to keep my mouth shut.
So my answer is yes to both questions at the end of your post.   
I so enjoy your posts, looking forward to lots more!   (((((hugs)))))     Anna.   

I could not agree with you more, Anna.  Some people come here are this close to doing something harmful to themselves.  They are fragile, very fragile.  They do not need brutal  honesty.  If you are incapable of compassion then I suggest not commenting at all.  Maybe later, brutal honestly but not at first.  Have a heart.

[cremebrulee]

Hi Creme.  I'm not saying don't be honest, I'm just saying that when I first came here, it was the compassion, & the understanding  that brought me back.  If I was pelted with brutal honesty at that time I may never have posted again.  Compassion first, brutal honesty second?
I absolutely want answers to fix problems, but I also want sympathy, understanding & compassion!  I do like to come here & just vent, especially when I'm steamed up about something that has happened & I have to keep my mouth shut.
So my answer is yes to both questions at the end of your post.   
I so enjoy your posts, looking forward to lots more!   (((((hugs)))))     Anna.   

ahhhhh, ok, yes, I can remember being there myself....

so thanks for understanding....

[cremebrulee]

I could not agree with you more, Anna.  Some people come here are this close to doing something harmful to themselves.  They are fragile, very fragile.  They do not need brutal  honesty.  If you are incapable of compassion then I suggest not commenting at all.  Maybe later, brutal honestly but not at first.  Have a heart.

I don't see myself as being brutal....I see myself as being honest....and I do possess a lot of compassion and do own a heart....otherwise, I would take so much time to post...and there have been threads posted that I ignore, b/c of insulting someone...

this post of yours sounds angry....and yes, I do agree, that some people who post in here, may or may not be on the fringe of doing something to themselves...and I do forget that...however....when we write, and read someone elses response...we are reading it, the way we are...if we are overly sensitive and insecure...and we can't see the face of the other person, we are going to take it as an insult....or as a personal attack...we are as we think and feel...and project ourselves that way....

I used to write poetry....never mentioned it in the poetry but it was spiritually written...and low and behold, someone (a man) took it like I was being sexually suggestive, and boy that broke my heart....and my aunt who was a writer and editor told me, you cannot be held accountable for how others view your writing....people are going to take things the way "they" think and feel and never be able to understand you, especially if they don't know you...

however, I do feel, in my case, there is always, room for improvement, so thank you for your feedback....
and the key here is, I think from now on, I'll remember to take the time to re-read my posts, before hitting save, just to make certain I'm not coming across brutally or insensitively...

but my question is, how does one know, when someone just wants to vent....or wants answers? 

I go on the assumption, and I'm probably wrong here, that when people are upset, they are to emotionally connected to be able to see it clearly, like I was...?

[Nana]

Creme:

Of course you have a heart (a good one) and are compassionate.  I kind of regret having posted what I did because you put all your heart in your posts trying to help and you do help a lot.   Sometimes Creme, we do know deep down the solution to a certain problem, but it takes time for some of us to accept what we have to do (like moving on).  It is like when you are telling a toddler not to do something because he could get hurt.  He/she does it and gets hurt and cries.  You do confort him and take care of him and probably afterwards you  let him know that he got hurt because he made a wrong choice.  Makes sense?

I always read attentively your posts because you have so much to offer.   Looking forward to more.

Hugs

[cremebrulee]

Creme:

Of course you have a heart (a good one) and are compassionate.  I kind of regret having posted what I did because you put all your heart in your posts trying to help and you do help a lot.   Sometimes Creme, we do know deep down the solution to a certain problem, but it takes time for some of us to accept what we have to do (like moving on).  It is like when you are telling a toddler not to do something because he could get hurt.  He/she does it and gets hurt and cries.  You do confort him and take care of him and probably afterwards you  let him know that he got hurt because he made a wrong choice.  Makes sense?

I always read attentively your posts because you have so much to offer.   Looking forward to more.

Hugs

Good Morning Nana....
Please don't feel badly....about what you wrote....and I do know and understand the hurt and the pain your all experiencing...just because things have worked out with my DIL, doesn't mean I'm exempt or don't know that lonely road....believe me...it is not a nice place to be....and yes, I've made it my personal road to try and help if I can...I know people are going to get angry with me, and some will not like me...however, I won't let that stand in my way of trying to help....may go about it in ways people don't agree...but will continue to strive to be more delicate, so that I don't appear to be judgemental or a know it all...there has got to be a way for me to learn this, and with your help, perhaps I will succeed, perhaps not....?  I hope and pray...because that place I was for 12 years....was sheer hell on earth....

so, thank you so much for being patient and for your feedback...I do appreciate you and all the ladies here who are so kind to do so....

Luv
Creme

[cremebrulee]

Thanx Nana, you explained that perfectly.  Creme, I love your posts.  I have learned so much from them, & I have looked to myself when something goes wrong.  Like what can I do differently next time if this happens again.  Thank-you.    (((((hugs)))))   Anna.

Anna, thanks so much...Anna....I will try very hard to write more sensitively....and I do so appreciate your feedback...it takes courage to be straight foreward in a nice way....by just tellling someone your true feelings....

What I'm trying to do, is learn how to be tactful...it will help me in the future with those people in my life who I've in the past allowed to use me as a door mat.  What I mean to say, by learning here...might help me to improve my relationships with people who mean well, but become to overwhelming...to say things to them in a way that is not in anger, but in sincerity...I used to let people push me way to much...and to long, until I exploded and now that friendship was lost....because I didn't want to hurt feelings....well sometimes, I've learned, that people, even adults, even myself....need to be reminded that there are boundaries...which must be respected....like where I wrote about my neighbor....I don't want to push her away, or hurt her feelings, but in the same, my boundaries need to be respected...yanno?  And I have to learn how to be kinder with my words....so thank you....I mean it....

Hugs
Creme

[cremebrulee]

Creme, I had a friend who absorbed every minute of my time.  We would go out together, as soon as our kids left for school, & come home minutes before our children returned.  This friend would go home & then call me, keep me on the phone until hubby got home from work.  It was so frustrating, I didn't have time to do anything, she was always at my house, we were out together, or we were on the phone together.  I had to start making excuses to her, trying so hard to be nice.  I Know it isn't easy to end a friendship, but that's what had to happen with this particular friend.  That was 13 years ago, & I still see her now & then, we are still cordial to each other, & sometimes I do really miss her, but I have been happier since our friendship ended.  (((((hugs)))))      Anna.

boy oh boy do I know those people Anna, they are so life draining and smothering...and can relate....one friendship she would call and call and call until I was home and then demand to know where I had been?  Sheeesh...that one I had to end...and it wasn't very pretty...however, like you, I'm much better for it and I don't miss her....I can't be smothered...with the MS, it drives me up a wall...I really short circut...meaning, I get anxiety so bad...and feel like I'm claustrophobic....

I spent so much of my life, trying to live up to the expectations of others, that it took it's toll....my sister and foster mother were like that...honestly they meant well...however, it had to be stopped....it was driving me nuts....they medeled way to much....

[cremebrulee]

It's funny, my hubby never liked this particular friend, & I just thought he was jealous of the time she took up.  I now think he saw what I didn't, how needy & clingy she was.  LOL.  Maybe I should learn to listen to hubby more.

Anna, I'm smiling....not maybe, but do, do so, put more positive energy into your husband...you two are a team...your kids are all grown up, start dating each other again...and make things special...be romantic and sporatic...you have a good hubby...make him your #1...your so lucky to have him....

Yes, it's so funny isn't it, how others can see things that we cannot...

Hugs
Creme