Enabling our Children

[barelythere]

Creme & Louise, I agree that our kids seem less respectful & have huge feelings of entitlement.  I wonder if there is anything we can do to change this growing trend.    It is totally out of hand!!

I agree with the sense of entitlement and selfishness of today in many.   This could have been anyone at the time but it happened to be our soon to be DIL. She was graduating from College and asked us to come and pack her up to leave.  We did.  She had not so much as put a dish in a box, leaving us with furniture, dishes, towels, clothes, pictures, books, everything to pack up ourselves and take her home, a whole apartment full.  She sat on the couch and watched until we were through. Her apartment was stuffed with things, some real heavy.  Her parents thanked us.  Should have tipped us off.  I hate to be Debbie Downer but no, I don't think there is anything we can do about it.

[Hope]

I read this thread with interest.  I agree that children's attitudes and personalities vary a great deal even when being raised in the same home/parents/environment/rules as their siblings.  I know our three adult children are very different from eachother and so are me and my siblings.  I think society and media play such a big role in this attitude of entitlement and disrespect.  I see it all over the place.  Please don't beat yourselves up over mistakes you made in childrearing - no one gets through it flawlessly.  And don't put the blame of your children's decisions on yourselves.  It's up to each individual to make the best of what life brings.
Hugs, Hope

[Julia]

I have read all the posts twice, and I'm not quite sure I understand.  We're supposed to talk about the ways we weren't good parents and consequently produced these little monsters who now treat us so bad in their adulthood?  We can do that, I suppose.  Certainly 20 years ago I was beating myself up for being responsible for my childrens' major and minor faults, until my therapist laid out all the other influences on my children's lives while they were growing up:

Mother working outside the home, most often by necessity and not by choice.

The children's father.

The fact that a new young family does not live close to its extended family.  Not many generations ago, the adult children lived in the very same neighborhood -- or close proximity -- they grew up in, close to their parents and siblings. 

School.  Once our children are in school, we lose a great deal of influence over them.

TV.

Music.

And a child's individual personality and disposition. 

I'm having trouble with  writing in this box.  I'm going to continue in a new one.

Bella, I had the same reaction as you at first.  In my opinion the majority of parents today feel like failures.  I also think we (and this is ME) our buttons are pushed so to speak and we hear from others "how things were" and I am probably with the majority of parents  experienceing difficulties with our young adult children that our own parenting is different, TV, media, books are written on the subject eg.  'How to raise well adjusted boy's"  or your what your daughter needs from you to be happy and, so many how to give your child a high self-esteem and it goes on and on.     

The benefits of a thread such as this is imperitive.  WE parents need an outlet to vent without feeling judged by others and need to be able to say things that we feel guilty about ourselves but need to feel understanding and compassion.  Not a  "pat on the back"  or the truth hurts.  In our hearts so many of our parenting skills could do with a "shakeup"  but as our children reach there teenage years they can and in my case "knock the stuffing out of you"  I'm not necessarily talking about physical abuse.   In my case it is  emotional abuse.   With what I think every single day generally when I wake up and worry about my adult children  it does wear youidown. 

I then say to myself occasionally after I throw my mind into utter chaos of where I went wrong etc.  Then I try to get that little voice saying 'but I did somethings right also.   

 Keep posting distressed mums, when we feel we need to ask questions of the members, get answers or suggestions,  we must repect others opinions and we also must feel free to ask the questions we might not have the oportunity to speak to others.  We often need advise and we can ask for advise here knowing the answers will and suggestions will be varied.  I for one welcome all views.   

[Julia]

I will continue... my grandfather (he died at 103 a moth ago) had as you can well imaging so many wonderful and yet often extreme hardship when growing.  He would tell me "we drank out of puddles, we scraped the maggots of the meat before we ate it..as he would say without refrigeration they often had no choice.  (sorry if you about to have breakfast) ..and it goes on and he wrote 3 books on his life.  I say things to myself like "well I can't be all bad, my daughter didn't get face book till she was 17, a phone until 15, we don't have phone mobile service, you would think it the end of the world.   ..we have a dodgy internet service where we live so surely that's a plus frequent blackouts and my children cry blue murder and can't cope without the hair dryer for a day.   I look at these things as a huge plus, my children resent it and can't wait to get out of the bush and into civilization.   

We chose to live here and it is a lovely place but we don't have close neigbours, the closest parenting courses and support groups, counsellors  are 530K's away.    That is why this website is so important to me, feeling all alone in your problems is soul destroying.  I am very aware it can be as lonely in the cities.  My closest friends are 700 ks away and live in the city and feel so alone.  WE constanly hear "these are the signs of depression you need to watch for in your children, young adolescents  are commiting suicide in alarming num
bers.   The little voice that tells you it's not your fault, etc etc.  It is outwieghed by guilt.   

   

[cremebrulee]

Thank you kindly for all your thoughts and feelings on this thread...it took off well, and as I had hoped it would...I'm not saying anyone here is a bad parent...Lord knows, I have certainly made mistakes...and I don't mean to touch anyone's nerve by talking about how things were, but it's the truth...it's all I have to compare with...

Basically just started this thread, and was thinking out loud so to speak...

We had a going away party for a co-worker the other day.  Someone told me, that this one girl's parents refused to watch her kids...so we're at this party, inside a resturant, and she walks in with her four kids...leaves them run all over the place, jump up and down, yell and scream...I was embarrassed.  So, I can understand why her parents won't watch her kids..

When I look back...our communities were much smaller...as as I grew up and married, by moving around I did get a feel for neighbors, who were aware they had neighbors and who were not...who really didn't care, and allowed they're kids to run all over the place...I'm sure even you young mothers have seen it at times...

and yes, our young people today, not all, but a lot of them do have a sense of entitlement...

So, someone mentioned what can we do about it...?

Until parents start teaching they're kids a few manners and how they're thoughts and decissions effect the lives of so many others...it won't change.

Culture has to change it...society has to become aware again...and we've lost that, along with the sense of tomorrow...everything today is just about today...I'm thinking about corporate leaders...as an example...they are not able to look at the long term effects, it's all about instant gratification...

You all have bought some very interesting thoughts to this thread, and wanted to thank you...please feel free to continue...

I thought it would simply be something we could discuss....and threw some ideas out there that I've seen over the course of my life....

Creme

[BellaTerra66]

I refuse to indulge in useless guilt.  There are enough true and real things that have been my fault, that I have been guilty of, that I've had to 'repent' sincerely (to 'God', myself and/or others) and then move on.  In the past, I've had to sincerely apologize to my children, both when they were children and as adults.  But I refuse to accept blame for what was and is not my fault, and I refuse to let any of it haunt me. 

Yes, none of us were perfect parents.  But I truly believe that all of us -- that everyone, not even just parents -- have done and do the best we can, as the people that we were and are, with the knowledge and disposition that we had and have at the time we have done and do something.  In other words, I think there are extremely few sane people who deliberately decide to hurt another, whether it be their children, their spouse or a friend -- or an enemy. 

Once our children leave home for kindergarten our influence over them continues to drop greatly as the years ago by.  Music, movies, TV, computer games, the Internet, their friends -- all had and have had a great influence in raising our children. 

[BellaTerra66]

One of the things I started to do long ago is:  I got tired of being treated like an idiot by young adults in some position of 'authority' (receptionists and nurses and nursing assts in doctor and dentist offices are my pet peeve).  They start calling us by our first name first thing off the bat.  And when we get, ahem, 'older', they start to use this 'sweet' voice like we're some idiots who can't understand what they're saying.  (In fact, someone called me 'deary' the other day, and I very quietly and politely blew my stack.  LOL)  I just smile at them (not too nicely LOL) and say, "My name is Mrs. So and So.  No one calls me by my first name unless I tell them that they can do so, and you haven't even asked me if you can."  Or "You are younger than my youngest child.  They don't call me by my first name, and you won't either.  My name is Mrs. So and So."

Of course, this applies to first-time visits.  I've been seeing the same dentist for years, and he's had the same staff for years, and this hardly applies to them.

Anyway, you should see their faces when I say my little schpeel to them.  It's like they've never heard this before.

We need to demand that these younguns give us some respect.  I don't care whether or not it's sincere on their part.  They are going to act the part, whether they like it or not.

[Pen]

I resent being called "young lady" by people younger than I, when I'm obviously not one.

[Julia]

My pet peeve..dress shops..young adults who continue to speak on the phone rather than look up and acknowledge me, meanwhile I do get to hear who's boyfriends cheating on who, where the best nightclubs are  and what "they wore" that night and what there plans are for the weekend.    Meanwhile  I am there to ask where are such and such.    I wonder what the owners whould say if they knew there employees weren't doing an ounce of good for their businesses.    My dh came home the other day, he had been to Mcdonalds, he looked out the back (as you do in) and the young lad cooking the burgers, had low slung jeans with His undies showing.  My dh was in a hurry, didn't say anything.  The next week dh was in there again and the same fellow same jeans etc, pulled up the undergarments and had an itchy buttock. Dh saw red and spoke to the manager, young lad was still there a month later but dressed more suitably.    Does anyone here get the TV show 'Grumpy old women?' I think it is hilarious.   It is Germainne Greer and 5 celebrities talking about there pet peeves in the world today.   So Funny.  Sorry way of track with the subject but it feels good to vent.

[BellaTerra66]

Yes, this all may be off the track, but it sure feels good, doesn't it?   

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[cremebrulee]

One of my pet peeves and I've mentioned some in my older posts in this thread...and it worries me...my DIL dresses my GD to the hilt...yes, she looks adorable...indeed, and I smile with great love when I see her with matching skirt and shoes...she buys most of her clothes at high end children stores.  She allows her to put on make up while she's getting ready to go somewhere...(she's going to be eight) however, there are no outside interests other then horses...there are no cultural lessons what so ever...and yes, it's none of my business...really....but when I see this child dressed better then most kids...and already she asks her mom to go shopping, it just goes thru me, as she bases her identity on clothes, make up and looking beautiful...and my DIL is absolutely stunning, but to, dresses in clothes that are way over they're budget....it seems to me, there is no interest to expose my GD to music, taking lessons on something, piano, etc.  I think my DIL does a great job as a wife and mother...she is very loving and nurturing....but I don't  believe she begins to realize, how much she spends on clothes for them...and that there is more to life then looking beautiful...both my GD and DIL are extremely good looking...but there has to be more...and my GD possesses good mannors for a child of eight...very well behaved...so much so that I'm impressed with my DIL's capabilities...

but the other part worries me, as she is teaching GD that you need to have the very best clothes.  It's always hair, clothes, make up, nails and petacures.

And believe me, I grew up very poor....and I don't dress nearly as well as others...and I don't care...I refuse to pay a lot of money for clothes...me, I'd rather put it in my home decorating?  But that is not all there is either....so, perhaps I'm the one that's wrong.

Another pet peeve....your at a stop sign at a 4-way cross road.  There is a woman in a car stopped across the street...there are cars behind you, you wave her on first, for her to go...she sits there and waves you on?  Sheesh that annoys me...there you are, trying to be curtious...trying to let her threw, cars behind you and she's arguing with you...?  I don't get that...is that controlling or what? 

Julia, I've never seen the show...and don't worry about getting off track...I opened this thread for just that sort of thing...

[luise.volta]

We are role models for beliefs and values and so are our DILs. If we are materialistic or shallow or anything else that walls of our potential and creates limitation, it will be mirrored back to us by those looking for direction. Sad.

[BellaTerra66]

I don't completely disagree with you, Luise, but I don't completely agree with you either.  There are so many other forces involved than just us.  (And altho' I'm not a New Ager, I do believe, like so many others, that this world is going through a transitional time.  So much that worked for us in the past no longer works, and there is nothing solid to fill in the gap.  In so many ways, we are floudering.  I just hope this world survives to make it through the time.) 

But -- and this has always intrigued me -- the reality TV shows -- the ones that have the primary purpose of putting someone down, really hurting his/her feelings, demeaning them, trying to strip them of their dignity -- we WATCH those shows.  They are enormously popular.  We didn't create these TV shows, and we're not watching them (at least I'm not, and I don't think most of us older ones are).  So if we older ones are not watching them, then our children and grandchildren are.  And I think these shows have a great influence on our children and grandchildren.

I've been watching old TV shows via Internet, since I've been sick.  Shows from the 70s, 80s and 90s.  They were so different just a short time ago.  Yes, yes, yes, a lot of the older shows put women down.  Now the TV shows put women down in a different way AND they put men down too.  There is little on TV -- or in the movies -- that show kindness and respect and love.  Nothing  in computer games that show those virtues.

Whaddya think?

[cremebrulee]

I think a child develops they're individualism in the first 5 years from they're parents...they watch, study and parrot.  So, if the mother is so over aware of her looks, clothes, etc...so will her daughter be...and my son has been away, therefore, my dil right now, is her only influence, and she will be 8.  There are indeed other forces at work...however, at such a young age, I do believe parents are the biggest influence...and please feel free to contradict me...surely, I could be wrong. 

What worries me, about this is, what if my GD marrys someone who isn't making good money, and she decides not to work, but expects everything extravegant in the way of clothes...make up, nails, hair, etc....it's not a good thing...she's used to getting it now, and she will believe that it's normal...plus, I feel while she looks stunning, and adorable, my GD will have a hard time in school, b/c she's over dessed and the other kids will mock her.  Also, you know how jealous girls are..it also makes her a target. 

Now, I could be wrong, and really, this is none of my business...besides, in every other way, my DIL is a fantastic mother, so this may be a little thing?  But it does worry me.

As far as TV...I really believe over the years, it does have a huge influence on conditioning people to believe, act and feel as they do.  I'm totally there with you on your feelings...have you noticed those reality shows actually encourage people to fight with one another, to call them names, to be dishonest...etc...and they call that entertainment? Sheesh....
What really angers me, is, the Bachelor and bachalorette?  All these people they date...they kiss, and sleep with, and then they pic someone???   Sheeesh?  I wouldn't want anything to do with it...and think very little of those that participate....especially that one who was a father?  How shameful.

[BellaTerra66]

No, no, I agree with you, Creme:  Research shows (not that I always agree with 'research' -- it depends on who or what did the research) and I truly believe that parents have the biggest influence (if not the only influence) over their pre-school children.  Or their primary caregiver, whoever that may be.  But my mother was exactly like your DIL and GD, and I didn't grow up that way.  I couldn't have cared less what I wore -- well, until I got into high school -- but even then, my GFs were always shopping for clothes and I was always buying books.  I never saw my parents reading a book.  Not ever.  On the other hand, my three kids always saw their father and I reading books, and we read to them everyday (until they were old enough to read on their own -- 3rd grade?).  All of our very different three personality kids grew up to be big readers of good books, and they read to this day.

And to this day -- and I'm 61 -- I don't have a sense of fashion (altho' I know what colors go together).  I am most comfortable in jeans and a pretty t-shirt, and the daily chore I hate the most is putting on my makeup and fixing my hair (I have a short pixie cut which I can style with my fingers and gel).

Ok, so I don't have the answers.  All I know for certain is that I see our adult children and our grandchildren being rude and mean and unkind in ways that I still never think of being, and I know I'm not responsible.  At least not totally responsible or even primarily responsible.

BTW, your name makes me drool for my favorite dessert -- which I will not eat because I have 20 lbs to lose.  LOL