"Leave & Cleave" vs. Honor thy Mother(-in-law)

[miss_priss]

At some point you want to give up b/c it is just so dang hard to face someone with such terrible communication issues that it works you up and takes over your mind how to have a simple conversation and it really shouldn't be that way.  Extremely frustrating.  So much could be solved with grown up communication and it's such a shame that you pretty much have to forego any type of compromise due to someone's inability to have a conversation.

Pam1 - this is SO true.  Everytime we've tried to have any similance of a conversation with MIL, she either refuses, OR she comes into it snarky, sarcastic, mean, ruthless, and relentless.  Her objective is to get even, not resolve.  Those are the folks that can't see past their own noses, and it goes for MILs, DILs, FILs, SILs, DHs...anyone.  Its impossible to resolve anything with this type of person, because they don't understand the concept of compromise, only "my way or the highway."  And all you can do is pity these people for what they are missing out on by being totally incapable of reason.   

[Nana]

Anna:
I have notices in my lifetime (59 years lol) that when people are losing an argument or have nothing in their defense, their defense is to get angry and elope.  I hate when people does this.  My husband does it sometimes.  When he has nothing in his defense, he gets angry and tells me that I  he will not argue anymore and leaves the room.  grrrrrr.   It is just what some dil/mil's do also.  It is a virtue to listen and give careful thought to what is being said to us. 

How many dil's would dream about having a mil like you.  Poor girl....doesnt realized what she is losing.

Your dil still has a lot of growing to do. 

I wish you the best of luck!

[cremebrulee]

Anna:
I have notices in my lifetime (59 years lol) that when people are losing an argument or have nothing in their defense, their defense is to get angry and elope.  I hate when people does this.  My husband does it sometimes.  When he has nothing in his defense, he gets angry and tells me that I  he will not argue anymore and leaves the room.  grrrrrr.   It is just what some dil/mil's do also.  It is a virtue to listen and give careful thought to what is being said to us. 

How many dil's would dream about having a mil like you.  Poor girl....doesnt realized what she is losing.

Your dil still has a lot of growing to do. 

I wish you the best of luck!

this is so true and right on....and I myself have done this....and makes me wonder if we are not teaching our kids that there is nothing wrong with admitting wrong doing, or that we make a mistake?  I mean, some of these people actually believe themselves....that they didn't do anything to cause the situation....there is nothing shameful about admitting we are wrong....or taking blame when we do something wrong....I ponder, if as parents we forget to train our children this? 

I used to always tell my son, don't ever tell a lie, b/c if you tell one lie, and you get caught, and you will....no one will ever believe you again....

Later in life, his buddy told me he was smoking....one day he came home from school and I asked him...."were you smoking?"
he said, "yes".  I asked him..."where are you hiding the cigerettes?"  He said, "in a tree outside".  I told him....OK, from now on, you understand, while your living in my household, you don't smoke....when you leave this house to go on your own, it's your turn to do what you want...however, while here, regardless there are rules you must follow and that is one of them".  I walked away and we carried on, but was stunned and very happy he didn't lie to me....and he never asked me how I knew....it was just dropped....LOL....

I never taught my son that I can remember about taking ownership, and not to be ashamed to admit when he was wrong....however, I believe he does possess the awareness, because he has said some very surprising things to me, that I've learned from....regarding other people and his arrests and how he assesses a situation...and he was like that from a child...he was capable of sitting back and listening....not talking much but observing people as they talked and then he chose his friends...they didn't choose him....

Very interesting....Nana, and yes, I can understand the frustration...LOL...
My wheels are spinning now, and I'm thinking back to when I to did this...many times...and was not even aware I was wrong or wouldn't listen....sheeesh???

[Pooh]

I call it "entitlement" syndrome.  I think the generations that are 30ish down now were brought up to believe that they were entitiled to everything.  As a society, we pushed our kids with words like "no one has the right to tell you that you can't do something" and "women can have it all."  As a Mother, I know I tried to teach responsibility to my kids and make them "earn" things, but thought nothing of buying them a $600.00 game system for Christmas.  And then I would follow that up with "Oh, they have to have more than that to open", so I would buy them more things.  For birthdays, they got the new IPODS they wanted.  I bet we had every game system that every came out, their own TV to play it on, stereos, the new rocker chairs with speakers that their games plugged into.  We wanted our children to have more than we had and we gave it to them.  I tried to temper that with, well they make good grades...do chores..are respectable...and are good kids.  But as I look back now, I did give them 1000% of what we had growing up.

Now I am dealing with a 17 y/o stepdaughter that thinks the world revolves around her and that has no empathy for other people.  She has been given all those things too, except was never made to do chores or anything.  So she is even worse.  I think we all grew up knowing that if we got a $20 gift for Christmas, how special that was and appreciated it so much because we didn't get many of those and knew our parents made sacrafices to buy those.  These generations got a $500 dollar TV and although they squealed with delight, they saw it as no big deal, because everyone has one and I should too.  And they never thought about what the parents had to do to afford it.  Mom works, Dad works...what's the big deal?  I see it in my DIL, my kids, my step-daughter and my friends kids.  We didn't do it on purpose, and in many cases, we thought we were doing it the right way.

Just my opinion, but that's why I call it "entitlement syndrome".  I think they all go, everyone else has these things, so I should too and are not appreciative of anything or what it took anyone to get it.  It's expected.

[cremebrulee]

Dil is due with her third child in a couple of months.  I sure hope she does some growing before this little one is born.  With three little ones, (5, 4, & newborn),  dil is going to need all the help she can get.

I hope so to Anna....all you can do is hope....but yanno something...I betcha, she is learning a lot from you...be patient with her....it's unfortunate she didn't have the upbringing she should have had...and her knowledge on these things is so far fetched sometime, but maybe she will progress, perhaps without you even realizing it, you may be a good influence on her...baby steps girlfriend....look for those little progressions and if you see them, reward her.... someway let her know your happy with her decission...don't make it fake, just give her credit where credit is due...it might help build her confidence....but don't expect to be her friend, don't expect anything from them period...think of her as only an aquaintence...maybe that way,  you and your husband make plans without them...don't ask them to go...you will have fewer expectations of them, and won't set yourself up to be hurt?  good luck...and I hope she seasons with time....

and Anna, pssst.....maybe, just maybe what she resents in you the most, she herself wants to be....(wink)

Hugs
Creme

[Pooh]

Creme, I am there with you.  I have the one son who thinks "money makes the world go round" and doesn't own up to his faults.  Then I have the other one, in the Army, that has made many mistakes, but takes responsibility for everything and fixes it.

Amazing they had the same, exact raising, but older one took on more characteristics of his Dad, and the younger one, Me.  The lessons I gave sunk in with the younger one, but not the older one.  I just don't get it sometimes.

(and when I say older, they are just 17 months apart, so were raised together)

[cremebrulee]

Creme, I am there with you.  I have the one son who thinks "money makes the world go round" and doesn't own up to his faults.  Then I have the other one, in the Army, that has made many mistakes, but takes responsibility for everything and fixes it.

Amazing they had the same, exact raising, but older one took on more characteristics of his Dad, and the younger one, Me.  The lessons I gave sunk in with the younger one, but not the older one.  I just don't get it sometimes.

well lady, if ya ever do, please advise, I'll be here....LOL, God willing....

[Pooh]

Same to you...if you figure it out first...please, please...SHARE...Lol

[cremebrulee]

I call it "entitlement" syndrome.  I think the generations that are 30ish down now were brought up to believe that they were entitiled to everything.  As a society, we pushed our kids with words like "no one has the right to tell you that you can't do something" and "women can have it all."  As a Mother, I know I tried to teach responsibility to my kids and make them "earn" things, but thought nothing of buying them a $600.00 game system for Christmas.  And then I would follow that up with "Oh, they have to have more than that to open", so I would buy them more things.  For birthdays, they got the new IPODS they wanted.  I bet we had every game system that every came out, their own TV to play it on, stereos, the new rocker chairs with speakers that their games plugged into.  We wanted our children to have more than we had and we gave it to them.  I tried to temper that with, well they make good grades...do chores..are respectable...and are good kids.  But as I look back now, I did give them 1000% of what we had growing up.

Now I am dealing with a 17 y/o stepdaughter that thinks the world revolves around her and that has no empathy for other people.  She has been given all those things too, except was never made to do chores or anything.  So she is even worse.  I think we all grew up knowing that if we got a $20 gift for Christmas, how special that was and appreciated it so much because we didn't get many of those and knew our parents made sacrafices to buy those.  These generations got a $500 dollar TV and although they squealed with delight, they saw it as no big deal, because everyone has one and I should too.  And they never thought about what the parents had to do to afford it.  Mom works, Dad works...what's the big deal?  I see it in my DIL, my kids, my step-daughter and my friends kids.  We didn't do it on purpose, and in many cases, we thought we were doing it the right way.

Just my opinion, but that's why I call it "entitlement syndrome".  I think they all go, everyone else has these things, so I should too and are not appreciative of anything or what it took anyone to get it.  It's expected.

I totally agree that this is a main reason....I think when we study people, even our closest enemies....there are reasons why people do things....and there is never one reason but many....but when we begin to understand why a person is acting a certain way....we start to understand them better...it the lack of knowledge about them that behooves us...

but yes, your absolutely right....entitlement and why?

[Pooh]

I wish I knew.  I am by no means the perfect Mom or person, but they were taught life values.  Morals, Ethics, Responsibilities, etc.....boggles my mind.

[luise.volta]

Did you hear the story about the guy who won the lottery and decided to use it to go around the world and find the perfect woman? After five years he came back alone. His friends asked him what happened. He said "Well, I found her...but she's looking for the perfect man!"

[neecee]

I have had the conversation about our  "entitled" 30 somethings with friends and family quite often in the last few years.  When we began to see our children throw our gifts by the wayside, it baffled us and stimulated so much discussion.There are studies on this topic as well.  For a while, I felt as though I was disrespecting the group in a general way, however since reading so much on this generation, I am convinced of the truth of it. Some write that it is the fault of the boomers and some attribute this to our media.  I suppose it is some of both and more.  Some discussion I have had indicate that there may be some benefit to this terrible recession.  Perhaps it will help all of us value what we have.

I just spoke to a dear friend of this site.  She is going through some hard times with her son and dil.  It is good to know that someone might avoid pitfalls the rest of us have fallen through.

[luise.volta]

I worry about that, too. Mostly in connection with daycare. We read that beliefs, values and reactions are firmly cemented by age seven and then we put children into the care of someone else who will answer all of their questions. We don't know what those people believe or how they present it. They are usually overworked, underpaid and poorly educated. Then on the weekend, out of guilt, we spoil them rotten. Can we get anything but totally confused young adults?

[Pen]

I don't know what the answer is. We couldn't spoil DS & DD with material things when they were young, but we gave them enriching experiences and taught them about caring for their community and their world. They both were very involved in community service clubs & projects from elementary school on through high school. Unfortunately, the values of DIL's FOO and others like them are not the ones he was raised with and they frequently clash. He's going to have to figure it out for himself.

It does concern us how DS & DIL will treat us when we're older, or how they'll handle our disabled DD when we're gone. We can arrange the financial stuff, but it's the lack of emotional support we worry about.

However, it's not just the younger generation - my stepmom and her sibs, who are all very successful, left their mom in a sub-standard nursing home for years (lying in her own waste for hours, etc. etc.) I questioned my DF about it and he couldn't explain why his wife & her sibs didn't pool their vast resources to find better placement. I am still shocked by their selfishness. Of course, they've made sure they're all well-provided for. SM took control of DF's finances the minute they married, and he looks like an old homeless guy while she wears Sax 5th Ave.

I think selfish people can come in all age groups.

[Pooh]

I have thought a lot about this as well.  I have looked at my brother (who is 10 years older than me) and myself, and then my oldest Son and thought about the differences in our raisings.  We all had the same raising as in morals, ethics, discipline, etc.  But I truly believe the main difference was mentality.

My Mother and Stepfather were just barely making it when my brother was a kid and teenager.  They scraped together enough to help him buy his first car for $500.  Lol...it was a Pinto.  He had to pay the insurance and upkeep.

They were doing much better financially 10 years later, when it was my turn.  They co-signed on a new-used car for me and put $1000 down.  I paid the payments, insurance and upkeep.

When my son was that age, we bought him a nice used truck ($2000), paid the insurance and he paid the upkeep.

Now, my brother who is now 52, looks back on that as he was shafted.  He is always, "You got a new car, I got a piece of junk."  And his entire life, he has strived to buy all the best material things.  Because he didn't get much as a child, he is trying to make up for it.

I look at it as I had the best of both worlds.  I truly appreciate what my parents did to help and gave me, but at the same time had to work to pay the payments, insurance and upkeep.

My Son sees that all his friends were given cars and he was no different.  Shows no appreciation for what we did, and felt like he was entitled. 

We all 3 were given a similar situation, but my brother had less, I was middle of the road, and my Son was given more.  My brother is resentful, I am grateful and my Son is non-chalant and feels like he was entitled.  I guess that it what I meant by, I know we gave our kids way to much.  Even though they had chores, were disciplined and taught better...just as I was, our lessons didn't sink in as well because we were also handing them things left and right because we wanted them to have better than we did.