"Leave & Cleave" vs. Honor thy Mother(-in-law)

[GreatWhiteNorth]

The object of the black holing is lack of attention to something not appropriate,  so if your husband wants to use the pants or even other stuff then whatever, just remember the object, no attention gained from the inappropriate gifts.

Inappropriate gifts like this have strings attached usually and the strings are forgiveness without her having to repent or even say she is sorry.

Did I read correctly that the gifts in this box are for your husband and child only? what about gifts for you? not that you are looking for gifts, that is not the point (If I am reading this correctly about who the gifts are for) but is giving gifts to everyone except you not simply another way of your MIL playing "lets pretend DIL does not exist"? If I got that right, is that possibly being reacted to as well. If that what she did then excluding you is very much for a reaction.

You would also be reacting to betrayal of your husband to some degree for him accepting you being not included, he is accepting her pretending that you don't exist.

When my MIL would wait specifically for me to be gone to come over my husband pointed out to her that she is not treating us like a family when she does that.

Your MIL is not respecting your marriage at all if this is the case.

[barelythere]

The object of the black holing is lack of attention to something not appropriate,  so if your husband wants to use the pants or even other stuff then whatever, just remember the object, no attention gained from the inappropriate gifts.

Inappropriate gifts like this have strings attached usually and the strings are forgiveness without her having to repent or even say she is sorry.

Did I read correctly that the gifts in this box are for your husband and child only? what about gifts for you? not that you are looking for gifts, that is not the point (If I am reading this correctly about who the gifts are for) but is giving gifts to everyone except you not simply another way of your MIL playing "lets pretend DIL does not exist"? If I got that right, is that possibly being reacted to as well. If that what she did then excluding you is very much for a reaction.

You would also be reacting to betrayal of your husband to some degree for him accepting you being not included, he is accepting her pretending that you don't exist.

When my MIL would wait specifically for me to be gone to come over my husband pointed out to her that she is not treating us like a family when she does that.

Your MIL is not respecting your marriage at all if this is the case.

Wait, so if the MIL sends gifts to include the wife, she's respecting the marriage?

[miss_priss]

I understand what you're saying.  And you read it correctly, the gifts are for DH and DD.  There's nothing in there for me.  Which is ok, I stopped accepting her gifts long before DH did, and long before DD came along.  I realized very long ago what her gifts meant.  She used to write me checks for birthdays & Christmas and I just wouldn't cash them.  She was very offended by that, and she confronted me about it.  I told her very honestly that her gifts came with a price tag I just wasn't willing to pay.  That was the end of her gifts to me.  After that, her gifts to DH (and now DD) just got more and more extravagant.  And you are probably right.  My guess is she thinks she's "rubbing my nose in it" by making me watch my loved ones get big gifts from her, and it is just her way of further excluding me.  Meh, whatever helps her sleep at night.

The part about me resenting DH's accepting her excluding me...well, you're right on there.  I do.  I always have.  But that's something we are working through in couples counseling.  Resentment is a hard obstacle to overcome for sure, but we're getting there.  And I feel like this gift was designed to be a "wrench" in all of the work we've put into repairing our relationship and getting on without her.             

[Pen]

The gift thing is so stressful. DIL has finally accepted and thanked us for a gift, and it was a truly nice one. However, she still gives me cheap, thoughtless presents.

We don't bribe or or give gifts with strings, we just want to give her a gift that is equal in value to those of DS & DD. Her thoughtlessness does hurt, but I know she's that way going in.

She is weird about our gifts because she doesn't like us. If you remember junior high, you'll remember how hard it was to accept a piece of paper from the loser kid in class, like it had cooties or made it seem as if you liked him, heaven forbid. That's how I feel - like I have cooties.

[miss_priss]

Pen - I semi-understand your thoughts on gifting.  I probably don't fully understand because I was raised in a nearly "no-gift" environment.  Most of my family barely gets by financially and can't afford gifts.  The ones who CAN afford gifts understand the awkwardness of the ones who can't afford it, so they never did push gifts on the less-fortunate ones.  So, basically the only time we ever got any kind of gift was on Christmas or your birthday...and even then we never received very expensive gifts.  What we did all have was love, understanding, and respect for one another.  As an adult, now, I thank God that I learned to give gifts DAILY, the gift of being there and loving my siblings, parents, and extended family.  Simply put, we just didn't need gifts to show love and appreciation, and while we occasionally have our little "tiffs," we are a very tight-knit and close happy family. 

BUT, I understand that not all families are like that.  Some families need to gift in order to show that love and appreciation.  In my DH's family, gifts fly back and forth like stones being thrown, and someone always has something to say about a gift that someone else got that was better than the gift they got, or someone got a gift for their birthday, but their brother didn't get one and he was mad...on and on and on.  And the theme of "gifts in lieu of apology" runs rampant.  Issues never get resolved, they just get swept under the rug once a gift is given...but the issues always seem to make an appearance later, because they never get truly resolved.  His family is unlike anything I've ever seen in my life, even on television.  I try to be understanding of that for my DH, without getting sucked into it myself.  That's where MIL takes offense....well, its just one of the hundreds of issues she has with me!  LOL!

I guess what I'm saying Pen, is that I can relate somewhat to your DIL.  It is very VERY awkward to get a gift from someone you know despises you.  What do you say?  Thanks?  "Thanks for making me feel awkward, because everyone in the room knows you hate me?"  It's not just awkward for the receiver, it's awkward for everyone there, and IMHO, it makes the gift-giver look like a passive-aggressive fool.  "Awwwwwww....she's just trying to be nice," when just yesterday the gift-giver was telling all her online friends what an awful troll her DIL is.  Sorry, I just don't want those gifts.           

For me, the nicest, best gift my MIL could give me would be to just be nice, act like an adult, act civil towards me, respect my "space" and privacy, and keep her snarky comments to herself.  In general, just being a good, reasonable, normal person would be the best gift she could give me.  An even nicer gift would be for her to get a psych evaluation, treatment, and medication.  It would be a pretty good gift for DH and DD too, much better than some work pants and new fancy clothes.   

[Pen]

Miss_Priss, whoa! Hold on a minute!

First of all, no one said I was giving gifts other than b-day or Christmas. I definitely do not gift my family at anytime other than those occasions. We don't have unlimited resources either, never have. Her FOO is shopping/gift crazed, not ours.

Second, I never said I despised DIL. She is the one who despises me. Please slow down when reading my posts! I feel as if my point gets lost.
My point was this: Since she does not like me, she doesn't want to accept anything from me, not that I despise her.

I am not your MIL. I've been nothing but gracious and welcoming to a young woman who out of the blue announced to DS that she hates me & DH, for no reason (by her own admission.) I've complimented her many times here and always to my friends and family - she's beautiful, intelligent, ambitious, focused, organized....and dislikes me. The only negative thing I've ever said, and only here, is regarding her "cut DS from the herd" behavior. Until she started that, DH & I thought she was wonderful.

Read more carefully, please. I am being very clear.

[mamacita]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a husband "cleaving" to his wife.  But, I've never known it to biblically mean to cut mom (or dad, or siblings) out of the picture.  How many women who feel so strongly about their MIL "leaving" will do the same with their father (or their mother, siblings)?  Besides, I don't believe anybody needs to be cut out of a picture - rather, the picture needs "retouching," with love and gentleness.  And, so what if mom has concerns of being abandoned?  Maybe dad does, too!  Since when is it a crime to take care of your parents?  I've known more than one DIL that did it with love!  It's foolish, and selfish, to think that once you marry, you don't ever have to associate with other family members, and if they don't do exactly as you want, when you want, you'll "modify" their behavior by keeping grandchildren, or their own child, away.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a man did this, I think it's safe to say he would be considered "abusive."  All too often I've come across comments from DIL (usually still young - in their 20's or 30's) that are sometimes so caustic I automatically feel for their mothers-in-law (and their husbands, as well as other family members).  Sure, some MIL can be difficult, and sometimes no matter what you do, they're on a mission to put a wedge in between their son and DIL.  Most MIL I know, though, try very hard to form a good relationship with their DIL.  Nobody is perfect!  A DIL that has any amount of maturity will note her MIL is trying!  Give her credit!  Believe me, the ones that aren't, aren't doing anybody a favor.  They don't realize how much damage they're doing until they grow up, and become MIL themselves, and the tables are turned.  Then they realize they've made a bed of nails for themselves.  Nobody is a winner in these situations. 

[barelythere]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a husband "cleaving" to his wife.  But, I've never known it to biblically mean to cut mom (or dad, or siblings) out of the picture.  How many women who feel so strongly about their MIL "leaving" will do the same with their father (or their mother, siblings)?  Besides, I don't believe anybody needs to be cut out of a picture - rather, the picture needs "retouching," with love and gentleness.  And, so what if mom has concerns of being abandoned?  Maybe dad does, too!  Since when is it a crime to take care of your parents?  I've known more than one DIL that did it with love!  It's foolish, and selfish, to think that once you marry, you don't ever have to associate with other family members, and if they don't do exactly as you want, when you want, you'll "modify" their behavior by keeping grandchildren, or their own child, away.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a man did this, I think it's safe to say he would be considered "abusive."  All too often I've come across comments from DIL (usually still young - in their 20's or 30's) that are sometimes so caustic I automatically feel for their mothers-in-law (and their husbands, as well as other family members).  Sure, some MIL can be difficult, and sometimes no matter what you do, they're on a mission to put a wedge in between their son and DIL.  Most MIL I know, though, try very hard to form a good relationship with their DIL.  Nobody is perfect!  A DIL that has any amount of maturity will note her MIL is trying!  Give her credit!  Believe me, the ones that aren't, aren't doing anybody a favor.  They don't realize how much damage they're doing until they grow up, and become MIL themselves, and the tables are turned.  Then they realize they've made a bed of nails for themselves.  Nobody is a winner in these situations.

We don't know each other but I'd like to applaud you.  The heartache that's dished out on us is pretty awful but we've got to grow up and get over it. It's hard to be the object of jealousy.  I hope no one here gets a dish full of it.  It will make you think you're losing your mind.  Some of the people are caustic but I guess that's our problem too?  I know this will wind around and come back to them oneday but it will be worse.

[Nana]

Good post Mamacita....

If only some dil's would give mils a chance.   Sometimes it is not personal.....it is like mil have been labeled in general terms.  I would tell these young women..... dont push me out before giving me a chance.  I am all for dil's that build walls towards an intruding, selfish, disrespectful mother in law.   But please girls, have compassion for us mil's that really want to be part of your life in a healthy loving way.


Cheers

[cremebrulee]

barelythere
 Some of the people are caustic but I guess that's our problem too?  I know this will wind around and come back to them oneday but it will be worse.

It very well may wind around and come back to them, however, it surely doesn't exclued the heartache many of you are experiencing now....

Yes, for now, you and others here may have to accept it, basically that is the only way to survive this...b/c it's out of your control...there is nothing you can do, however, a DIL, or MIL, who cuts off they're spouces family, well, it's a very self imposed and wrongful doing...

[cremebrulee]

Good post Mamacita....

If only some dil's would give mils a chance.   Sometimes it is not personal.....it is like mil have been labeled in general terms.  I would tell these young women..... dont push me out before giving me a chance.  I am all for dil's that build walls towards an intruding, selfish, disrespectful mother in law.   But please girls, have compassion for us mil's that really want to be part of your life in a healthy loving way.


Cheers

Well said, Nana

[cremebrulee]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a husband "cleaving" to his wife.  But, I've never known it to biblically mean to cut mom (or dad, or siblings) out of the picture.  How many women who feel so strongly about their MIL "leaving" will do the same with their father (or their mother, siblings)?  Besides, I don't believe anybody needs to be cut out of a picture - rather, the picture needs "retouching," with love and gentleness.  And, so what if mom has concerns of being abandoned?  Maybe dad does, too!  Since when is it a crime to take care of your parents?  I've known more than one DIL that did it with love!  It's foolish, and selfish, to think that once you marry, you don't ever have to associate with other family members, and if they don't do exactly as you want, when you want, you'll "modify" their behavior by keeping grandchildren, or their own child, away.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a man did this, I think it's safe to say he would be considered "abusive."  All too often I've come across comments from DIL (usually still young - in their 20's or 30's) that are sometimes so caustic I automatically feel for their mothers-in-law (and their husbands, as well as other family members).  Sure, some MIL can be difficult, and sometimes no matter what you do, they're on a mission to put a wedge in between their son and DIL.  Most MIL I know, though, try very hard to form a good relationship with their DIL.  Nobody is perfect!  A DIL that has any amount of maturity will note her MIL is trying!  Give her credit!  Believe me, the ones that aren't, aren't doing anybody a favor.  They don't realize how much damage they're doing until they grow up, and become MIL themselves, and the tables are turned.  Then they realize they've made a bed of nails for themselves.  Nobody is a winner in these situations.

Welcome and thank you for a very wise post....

[barelythere]

barelythere
 Some of the people are caustic but I guess that's our problem too?  I know this will wind around and come back to them oneday but it will be worse.

It very well may wind around and come back to them, however, it surely doesn't exclued the heartache many of you are experiencing now....

Yes, for now, you and others here may have to accept it, basically that is the only way to survive this...b/c it's out of your control...there is nothing you can do, however, a DIL, or MIL, who cuts off they're spouces family, well, it's a very self imposed and wrongful doing...

It brings a Mother to the point of no return when a DIL cuts off their spouse's family. I have not seen it happen for good reason but that's just me. I have to say something again here: guilt and shame are rarely seen today. I wonder if I had known what kind of DIL mine would have become if I would have stepped in to put roadblocks up for my son before he married her?  I think, "yes".  No woman treats her inlaws like this unless they are a bad seed. Just my 2 cents.

[cremebrulee]

barelythere
 Some of the people are caustic but I guess that's our problem too?  I know this will wind around and come back to them oneday but it will be worse.

It very well may wind around and come back to them, however, it surely doesn't exclued the heartache many of you are experiencing now....

Yes, for now, you and others here may have to accept it, basically that is the only way to survive this...b/c it's out of your control...there is nothing you can do, however, a DIL, or MIL, who cuts off they're spouces family, well, it's a very self imposed and wrongful doing...

It brings a Mother to the point of no return when a DIL cuts off their spouse's family. I have not seen it happen for good reason but that's just me. I have to say something again here: guilt and shame are rarely seen today. I wonder if I had known what kind of DIL mine would have become if I would have stepped in to put roadblocks up for my son before he married her?  I think, "yes".  No woman treats her inlaws like this unless they are a bad seed. Just my 2 cents.

Good Morning...yes, you very well might have said something to son, however, if he loved her, he would have been very angry with you, it would have turned him against you, b/c you were not accepting the love of his life....

When my 3rd step father married my mother, I was going to go and tell him how bad she was...that she was only showing a good side of her self until she caught him....however, my husband wouldn't allow me to do it...and I listened...after it was all over, and he left her, he called me and told me his side of the story (I think he feared me being her daughter, wouldn't believe him)  He said like he felt he was trapped in a prison...and going crazy....and asked me why I didn't tell him before he married her, how bad she was? 

I asked him...."would you have believed me then?"  He thought about it for a moment and replied....probably not, and I probably would have thought a whole lot less then you.

So my perception here is, it's best to let life play out for those we love...b/c it's they're choice, and to disapprove of they're choice, to them, seems at the time, very heartless, cruel and manipulative...so actually, it's good it didn't play out that way....you might be a whole lot more worse off....

I know we tend to replay replay replay and think of situations like this, but the sooner we can move on, the better we will be for it and be able to handle the situation more maturely with less thought about ourselves, and more thought to everyone concerned.

When we make decissions, it's best to  think about the consequences our decissions will weigh on everyone concerned...our husbands, children, grand children....even before we speak...it's human nature to hurt and we think we hate, but it's not the person we hate, we hate the situation that is happening, and we hate what it's made us...bascially, if all of us, were able to work things out with the one that is causing us problems...not only would we be perfectly agreeable, but forgive and forget....

I believe that, b/c all the ladies who come here, are not hateful, they're  hurt...and want more then anything else, to be able to work things out...if they didn't, if you didn't, you wouldn't be here. 

big hugs
creme

[miss_priss]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a husband "cleaving" to his wife.  But, I've never known it to biblically mean to cut mom (or dad, or siblings) out of the picture.  How many women who feel so strongly about their MIL "leaving" will do the same with their father (or their mother, siblings)?  Besides, I don't believe anybody needs to be cut out of a picture - rather, the picture needs "retouching," with love and gentleness.  And, so what if mom has concerns of being abandoned?  Maybe dad does, too!  Since when is it a crime to take care of your parents?  I've known more than one DIL that did it with love!  It's foolish, and selfish, to think that once you marry, you don't ever have to associate with other family members, and if they don't do exactly as you want, when you want, you'll "modify" their behavior by keeping grandchildren, or their own child, away.  If the shoe was on the other foot and a man did this, I think it's safe to say he would be considered "abusive."  All too often I've come across comments from DIL (usually still young - in their 20's or 30's) that are sometimes so caustic I automatically feel for their mothers-in-law (and their husbands, as well as other family members).  Sure, some MIL can be difficult, and sometimes no matter what you do, they're on a mission to put a wedge in between their son and DIL.  Most MIL I know, though, try very hard to form a good relationship with their DIL.  Nobody is perfect!  A DIL that has any amount of maturity will note her MIL is trying!  Give her credit!  Believe me, the ones that aren't, aren't doing anybody a favor.  They don't realize how much damage they're doing until they grow up, and become MIL themselves, and the tables are turned.  Then they realize they've made a bed of nails for themselves.  Nobody is a winner in these situations.

 

Good post Mamacita - I agree with you, that MILs, in general terms, shouldn't be completely cut out of the picture.  However, there are DILs right here on this forum who will tell you that the problems in their marriages began simply because either 1) MIL never let son completely leave the nest, or 2) son didn't know how or didn't want to leave the nest. 

I think we need to all get past being bunched into like piles.  DILs are on this site because of problem MILs, and likewise for MILs.  When I make a statement about my MIL, I don't state, nor do I imply, that all MILs are like her (God help us if they are).  I think it's safe to say that most MILs have no issue "allowing" their sons and daughters the right to choose whom they marry.....but let's face it, those good MILs are not why we DILs are here.  It works the same way for MILs.  When a MIL in despair posts about her awful DIL, I don't assume she is grouping me in that category.  True understanding is when we are able to, at the very least, hear and empathize with both sides. 

My reasoning for this post was not to bash MILs accross the board, but it's clear by reading through this thread that many took some serious offense to it when they don't even fit in the category.  Which is ok, we have "evolved" (or de-evolved, in my opinion) into an ever-offended society.  I'm sure someone will be offended by that statement in itself!

But I think it's safe to say that as the human race has "evolved" and society has grown to its modern-day proportion, we as a society have "left" God's word behind for other teachings that make more sense to us, that fit in better with our lifestyle, and some have discarded spirituality altogether because it's simply too "offensive" to so many. 

For a son to "leave his mother and cleave unto his wife" doesn't and shouldn't mean that the son's FOO should be absolutely cut off, and anyone who reads it that way, I believe, is really taking it to extremes.  What it DOES mean, is that son's #1 priority as an adult should be his wife and children.  You're absolutely right, MIL should have a place in her DS's life, always!  However, in my case and if you'll keep reading, MANY DIL's cases here, MIL thinks that her place is IN the marriage, and that her relationship with her son should be that of a quasi-husband.  If you don't fit in that category, then good for you, and good for your DIL!