so, DS emailed me

[Shelby]

His response just came in:
 
"mom i never talked to you when i was drunk or high."
 
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Seriously???!!!!

Elsie - in the 12 step programs, taking an honest inventory of yourself (and your faults) is one of the steps.  Then making amends to those you've hurt is another step.  He seems to still be in denial.  Clearly he did not take an honest inventory of himself.  Luise is probably right - he could have no memory of doing all that - but someone who is SUCCESSFULLY going through the program will say "Mom, I don't remember our conversations when I was drunk or high, but I probably said and did things I would regret if I weren't too stoned to remember.  I am sorry."    Not "It didn't happen".

I say he's still in denial - and he can't make amends to you or deal with his issues himself if he still denies the problems.  Best wishes - it sounds like you're too smart to fall for his baloney. 

[Pen]

Elsie, IMO, you are doing what will ultimately be best for your son by doing what is best for you. I know it's not easy. My thoughts are with you.

[Pooh]

I'm with Shelby.  Drugs, alcohol, abusive relationship, whatever the person is addicted to, until they truly want to recover, they stay in denial.  Denial is the norm until they decided they need to face what they have done.

Keep your door open for the future by doing what Doe said.  Don't bring up the past between you two because he's not going to see anything he did as wrong right now.  Keep the emails about the weather, movies, anything but the relationship and see where he goes with it.  His behavior needs to be dealt with at some point, but it's going to have to come from his side, not yours.

You are doing great and I do understand what you meant.  I miss my OS, but I miss the relationship and person he was.  I don't miss the person he is now at all.  The person he is now makes me feel bad unlike the person he was made me smile.  I will keep those memories and hope that person shows up again some day, but I will not chase a person I don't like now.

[Sassy]

His response just came in:
 
"mom i never talked to you when i was drunk or high."
 
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Seriously???!!!!

So, really, what am I supposed to do with that?

What you already did, laugh at the ludicrousness of it and then basically ignore it, sounds perfectly apropos to me.

He didn't send you his new phone number, after you told him you didn't have it.   He didn't ask you any questions for you to answer back.  He simply emailed back a single untrue statement to you.  One that to me, doesn't deserve a response.

Unless you want to point out his untruthfulness, or want to argue with him about what you already know you're right about, I don't see a reason to responding.  To me, his statement seems like "baiting".  Like it was written specifically for you to reply with some form of "yes you have" or "talk to me when you can be honest".   Then, he can position himself as the victim.  Mommy accused me of something I told her I didn't do!  Mommy is calling me a liar! Mommy just makes up stuff about me! See? Mommy is mean to me for no reason!

I'm trying to find that balance between leaving the door open a bit in case the person I hope he is comes around again ever, while protecting myself from the hurt of having to deal with the person he seems to be right now.

I think you're doing that, and doing it quite well; in your first email, and in general.

I'm going to sit on this for a couple of days and then respond when I have a better handle on what I feel and think.  Maybe the point of the whole exercise from his perspective was to open a dialogue, and he doesn't really care what the content is.  I do, though.

Very wise of you to wait.   I would just let it go instead of rising to (what I see as) the bait.  You already let him know the door is open (your goal).  You gave him some dialogue (his goal).    He is always free to email you again, perhaps with more information, or with something that's not made up, if he would like more interaction with you.

[elsieshaye]

Thanks, Everyone.  I haven't responded yet, and am not planning to.  What I may start doing is creating opportunities for him to interact with me positively, like post pictures of the cat on FB (my friends love me enough to tolerate some cat photos, lol) or other similarly innocuous things.  I don't feel comfortable addressing him or asking him about himself directly, because he tends to feel interrogated at the best of times, but it might be a way to build a bridge.  I typically don't post on FB at all, so this will give us some opportunities to just be on neutral ground with each other, if he chooses to take them.  If not, my kitty will be getting her 15 seconds of fame on FB, lol. 

[Keys Girl]

Elsie, good for you for not jumping the gun.

I would be reluctant to be dragged into the chaos again.

The fact that he says that he was never drunk or high when he talked to you is indicative to me that he's not being truthful or he thinks that he can still "snow" you and prove you wrong.  Very sad stuff but I think it's important for you to protect yourself.  He'll be fine. 

"If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy", do what you need to make yourself happy and leave the door open for him to do the same in the future if you choose.

It's a tough row to hoe, but you are much more aware your your circumstances and your son's than you were in the past.

[constantmargaret]

I'm glad to hear other mothers admitting they don't miss the relationship with their young adult drugging scary angry sons. I posted my story tonight, and I think it did me some good. Sometimes I miss my son and then I remember what it was really like to have him here, playing his games, holed up in his sty of a room, smoking god knows what, swearing at cyber gamers, coming out only to inhale dinner and return to his cave.

Then I don't miss him and I'm grateful that he's staying with his dad. This is punishing me how? I read his news feed on FB, and that's enough for now. I honestly dread the possibility of him wanting to return here, because I won't be able to trust him for quite a long time. I like the peace, quite frankly.

I would be happy to receive a respectful email, though. My husband has guaranteed that when my DS does contact me, it will be because he needs something from me, and it ain't my love. He's probably right, but of course I hope he's wrong. Ha ha I'm hopeless.

I hope you can hold your ground. You sound very strong.

[Keys Girl]

constantmargaret, I don't read any Facebook posts from my son or DIL and my page is not open to them.

I want as much peace and tranquility in my life and there is always something to deal with anyway without allowing them to add to the pile.

If you are dreading him coming back.......don't let him come back.  Move if you have to. 

I think your husband is right, he'll contact you if he wants something from you, likely money.  Same thing in my case but my son might like to contact me to be able to ripple the quiet pond that I now have, just to prove to me that he's got some influence or control over my life.  (Good luck with THAT!).

There's an old saying called the "slope of hope"......it's a slippery slope downwards and things accelerate as the slope declines with the speed of a skier jumping off a Himalayan peak.  People hold out the slope of hope to you and that's all you'll ever get from some of them.  Hope whipsaws your heart back and forth hoping that this time, he'll be respectful or something like that.  I won't hold on to the hope any longer, I eventually let it go a few months ago after their wedding (which I wasn't invited to). 

This is my choice and who knows maybe some day my son will have the respect and affection that he used to have for me...........maybe, maybe, but in the meantime, I'm not waiting, wondering or giving it so much as a moment's thought.

My destiny is in my hands and until he proves to me over a protracted period of time in actions, not words that he's someone that I can trust and invite back into my life, on my terms, well, it' ain't gonna happen and they will be skating on the ice when hell freezes over before anyone will change my mind about that.

If the day ever comes that he wants an opportunity to be back in my life, he will have to earn it, he's no longer entitled to it just by an accident of birth (that I gave him).  I divorced his father and essentially he divorced me.  So be it.  These boots are made for walking away from them both.

There will be mo take backs, no changes to my rules, get over it or get on with it and don't think I haven't shed an ocean of tears to get myself to this point, but my crying days are over and my getting on with my life days are here. 

[constantmargaret]

keys girl,

I can't explain it but reading what you just posted makes me want to do a cartwheel!

 We really do have the power to be happy. Just not when we put that power in our children's hands. Think about it. They can't even keep track of their car keys. And we're going to trust our hearts to them?

[lancaster lady]

All power. to you Keys .....excellent post !

[elsieshaye]

Thanks, Margaret.  It's been quiet so far.  I sent him his tax stuff, because it came to my house, but he just got another piece of mail yesterday, which I marked "return to sender / not at this address" and put back out by the mailbox.  I'm happier for right now keeping a little bit of distance, and I feel a bit resentful having to be his mail forwarding service.  So I choose not to be.  I occasionally look in on his FB page, but I don't have him as part of my news feed.  I also have him blocked from being able to see what I post, although we're still FB friends.  It leaves a door open, but doesn't subject me to drama.

[luise.volta]

Healing is such a wonderful thing. It seems to start way down in our cells when we say "enough, no more" and mean it. I rejoice as I watch us…one by one…a little at a time….helping each other along the way. We were given a life. It is ours. If we chose to give it away…we can also choose to take it back. What a novel concept! Sending love...

[JaneF]

Hi ladies.  Elsie I think you are doing exactly the right thing here.  I also agree he may not remember things since he was "altered", but none the less, YOU remember!  He isn't ready in my opinion, so I think it is very wise of you to hold off a bit.  Boy have I been through this like the other poster here stated!  My DD has fooled me many times with her I'm sorries, and I want to changes...only to revert back to her mean, narcissistic, selfish self...and LIE, LIE, LIE.  I also know what you mean when you say the person you used to know has not been around for a very long time.  He may not be enjoying his living arrangements, but I am like you and would say no at this time for a close relationship in case he is using you as a safety net or he wants to come back, or needs money etc.  My DD has been in and out of my home and various rental properties we own dozens of times.  I had to finally wake up and get smart.  You sound like you have it all together though!  Good job!  Blessings to you.  J

[luise.volta]

Lotsa' wisdom there, J. 

[Lisa41]

Like so many of us, I also am not willing to open myself up to my AD's drama. So many times I have felt like my heart is literally being ripped from my body and I just can't/won't go through that ever again.
What is amazing to me is how long it took for me to get to this point. I guess we all reach our "I've had it" differently. We are very strong women to come through all of this!!!!
Keys Girl nailed it exactly when she said "the days of crying are over."