why is my daughter changing?

[jill1963]

Hi all,

my post is a mish mash of things, some to do with my DD some to do with her BF some to do with my GS.

Firstly my DD (my youngest) i have 2,  1, 29yrs old (still lives with me)  1, 27yrs old living with BF & children.

Well my YDD as i said now lives with her BF, i gave them a lot of help, located a house, sorted out a guarantor, helped with cleaning, donated furniture and bought them stuff they needed. Up until my GS was just over 3 and a half my YDD lived with me, (and for the last 2 months we took her BF in after he had a family row). so 9 times out of 10 my GS was downstairs with my ODD and myself keeping an eye on him whilst she remained upstairs with her BF ( the majority of the time). As you can see i said children, my DD by the time she moved out was pregnant with what is now my new GD.
One thing that she said when she moved out was that much would not change, boy was she wrong. Remembering my GS is only still young and there was a lot of things going on, Mom expecting, new house, starting school, his behaviour was not fantastic, however there was no sympathy, no lets see how he gets along, no he is only little it will take him time to adjust.... it was a whole raft of punishments :-( , ranging from, no dessert, toys taken off him, early bed, shouting at him, calling him a horrible boy, none of his TV etc anyway you get the drift, the one i disagreed mostly with is no seeing us until his behaviour improved (i do not think blackmailing a child by threatening they cannot see family members is fair) the other punishments were not temporary like not having a days dessert or tv taken off him but several, thus i think giving my GS the attitude what have i got to lose, this is still the case, my YDD has never been known for her good temper and whilst pregnant this was worse, if we tried to say anything it was always a case of he has got to learn to behave (which i agree with but with this raft of punishments what has he got to look forward too?) Once she had my GD i think she got slightly better but he my GS still gets into trouble a lot, they force him to sit on the settee and if he does not sit perfectly still gets shouted at (say for instance he wriggles or moves his legs), he is forced to watch their TV programmes (mostly what the BF wants to watch) or he has to go to his room where there is very little interaction or playing games with him.
Well the gist of what i am trying to say is my YDD has changed so much, since moving in with her BF and i think because she wants in her words "her own little family unit" she has got engaged to him, and because of this is losing some of her own identity, she was always very outspoken, mean what you say, say what you mean type of person but now because she wants that perfect little family and because of his influence she is saying how long is my GS got to be in his room,  should i do this should i do that where as before, she would of made her own decisions.  One thing she has however said is that she does not want much contact but wants to be her own little unit, that i or her BF's Dad do not see our Fathers very often (my Mom is not in the equation as she died when i was 7, her BF's Dad's Mom divorced a while back and she has since died but they did see her quite often before she passed on) and she does not see why we want to be so involved (what she fails to remember and this has been pointed out is that when GC are small GP see them a lot more often as they understand when they become teenagers unless they are lucky that their GC will see them less as its not so "cool"), she also forgets i backed off from my Dad because of her and a disagreement we had about her, which i now regret :-(.

Anyway i saw my YDD yesterday and to be frank, although she was ok her BF was hard going, he was moody as hell and conversation was hard. My GS as well got into trouble on and off for stupid little things and ended up being told he had to be in his room (although he was allowed to have my ODD to stay and play games with him) I honestly dont even remember why or when he was told he had to be in his room :-/ I really do hate seeing my GS treated like this, i know it is there place to discipline him and i have no say in the matter and i get short shrift if i do try and reason with them (ie tell them he has a lot to deal with for example a new sister). He has started throwing things and lashing out, but i can understand why, a Dad who shows no emotion to him except to tell him off and his Mom who although is better does not give many cuddles out either.
My own Father says i should back off, leave them to it, i have decided i am not going to offer practical help, ie helping sort out their garden which i did as it meant i got to see my GS some more (but not for long as i was working clearing up their garden :-() and i am definetly not going to offer financial help, my daughter had asked me to help finance her wedding (scheduled for 2014 at the moment), but unless things get easier i do not feel i want to do that (it kills me as i have always been there and helped as much as possible and i think that is part of the problem she expects it).
Here are the 4 things that are bothering me most:-
My GS treatment,  My daughters attitude and the fact that she rarely makes contact with me (unless someone has told her i am either unwell or upset and not always when that happens) or if she wants something.
The fact that even though i have a new GD i feel very little emotion for her ( not her fault but i think it may have something to do with not getting too close so as i am upset less by things)
And lastly my daughters BF who is one of the most emotionless people i have ever met, but is also very moody, what does she see in him, i also even if i could back off would find it difficult as he works in my family company ( so all in all my side of the family have been very good to them) as my daughter did until she went of on maternity leave, so i could not ever fully move away.
my last couple of points are, because her BF's family are louder and pushier and have lots of parties, i feel they are getting the better end of the deal, her BF is a little in awe of his Dad and less likely to say something if GS is naughty or he doesnt agree with soemthing ( and my DD wont as she see that as his place to do as its his family) But DD definetly does not hold back if she disagree with me or my family and quite frankly can be very spiteful, cruel in the way she says things.
And lastly if i do back off completely am i leaving my GS to the wolves?
Apologies for long post but there is so much more i could of added, opinions would be greatly appreciated. :-)
Thanks Jill

[Distressedmom]

Hi Jill, welcome to this site I believe you will find it helpful.

I am just a mom like everyone else I can only offer advice based upon what I have been through and as I read your post I see a small bit of myself there. My DD and her family stayed with us for some time too, and I babysat most of the time because they both worked long hours. Needless to say I felt I had raised 3 children and I knew how to raise GC but when my daughter moved out and started her own family unit she didn't agree with the way I did things, nor did I agree with how she did.  My GC are now teenagers and believe me at that age the disagreements on how to handle them is worse. But we have agreed to disagree. I tell her if I was their mom this is what I would do and she tells me well you aren't. So yes sometimes you feel they aren't handling the situation right but none of us got a book of instructions when we gave birth. You did what you thought was best for your children at the time and that is what she is trying to do. She might not be right, she might not be wrong. Some of the punishments may seem sever or strong to you but as long as the GC are not being physically hurt I think you need to let her try to be the mom.

You stated she lived with you and your YDD who helped a lot with GS so maybe she is asking BF's advice because she didn't have to raise him in the beginning because you were there. Raising children has as many opinions as there are parents. You give the love to your GC both of them as much as you can when you can, let them raise them. You be the one to spoil and love them. Times will change as the GC grow and the way they deal with them will also. I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but, back off, as long as their is no physical abuse, you can help with the psychological by loving him every chance you get.

[Pooh]

Welcome Jill.  I think backing off is what you have to do.  No matter what BF is doing or saying, YDD is making her choices and although we don't have to like them, and she may be making some bad decisions, they are hers to make and deal with.  I do agree with you that keeping a child from family as punishment is a very bad thing to do.  Hopefully, after she settles in with the new baby, things will calm down.

[jill1963]

hi Distressed Mom & Pooh
thanks for your input,  i agree to a certain degree with what you are saying, i think i am grieving a bit because although my YDD and myself had a volatile relationship because mainly of her temper, we did talk, i find her ability to forget all this and practically ignore me hard to take, especially when her BF family seem to be getting more contact (Facebook is not always a good thing :-( ).
My main concern with my GS is that i do not want him to become like his Father emotionally void, so far i would say he wasnt, for instance yesterday when he visited he didnt want us to go, and by his rebelling against his parents (even at 4) that shows he has got emotion, i dont want them to break that spirit, to wear him down until he has no emotion
I will back off at least for the moment, i have never been one to go in a situation where i dont feel welcome. But and this is a big but, i do feel as if i am abandoning my GS to the wolves, my GD is as good as gold at the moment, hardly cries etc, but hopefully they will see as she gets older that no child is well behaved all the time, and that maybe my GS wasnt so bad after all.
I have one co-worker in a very similar situation except it is her son and his ex-GF, the ex-GF who actually has autism will sometimes deny her ex BF and his mom access to see his son, however she will take no prisoners and get a solicitor (lawyer) involved........... i feel i cannot do that to my daughter, my co-worker does also not understand the controlling aspect of my daughter and BF either in not letting him come over to mine and for me to see him without them being there. Only time i have had my GS to myself i had to be at their house and look after him and that was because my YDD was having my GD.  ( and i was supposed to sit with her BF's father for this time) ( which considering it was 2 days i am glad he decided he didnt want to be there all that time!!).
I just have to hope my YDD will wake up and smell the roses and realise that the situation she is in isnt ideal, believe it or not i do not dislike her BF i just dont like the over disciplining his emotionless attitude or the fact he always quotes his Dad and thinks that he is always right!! (oh and by the way his own Father called him emotionless when he came round whilst i was looking after my GS)
Why is life so hard,  why are children sometimes so thoughtless and uncaring :-(
Jill

[Pooh]

I understand.  We don't have to like the person our children chooses to spend their lives with, and we definately don't have to like their influence over our GC, but there really is nothing you can do except let the GC know you love them and will always be there for them.  It's the hardest lesson we have to learn as parents.  Their lives and all we can do is let them live it.

[jill1963]

I know, its just hard and upsetting when you know this is not usually how your daughter is, i do tell her i love her and also my Grandson when i see them, (i told him at least 3 times yesterday lol)  i even include her BF in a "night love to all" text that i send some nights,  i also occasionally text and ask her to give my GS & GD a kiss from me.
But it is me making all the effort. Visits arent usually invited, i have to ask and even then i am scared to do this as i am afraid of the response ( i dont ask every week and i generally try to have a reason)  for this weekend it was that YDD's own Dad hadnt seen the new baby.
So you see i am backing off but am not sure if i do if it will be noticed, but cant break off completely as i love my daughter and my GS, dearly, feel bad i havent included my GD in that statement but really havent had much of a chance to get to know her :-(
one thing that upsets me the most is if i dont see him will my GS forget me? ...........i hope not

Jill

[pam1]

Welcome jill1963

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[Doe]

Hi Jill-

From way back here, it looks like your daughter has so much chaos on her plate.  Even in the best of circumstances, 2 tiny children can be hard to handle.  She's with a man who hasn't taken the time to marry her, her income is dependent on her mom, she just recently was able to move out of your house.   For someone who wants to be a successful independent adult, there's some failure mixed in there.

One thing you wrote:
Well the gist of what i am trying to say is my YDD has changed so much, since moving in with her BF and i think because she wants in her words "her own little family unit" she has got engaged to him, and because of this is losing some of her own identity,
Sometimes, when people put the quotation marks in, they mean to belittle what's being quoted.  Is that what you meant?
I'm curious if  you respect that she is an adult and is working to make her way?  I don't mean as in 'admire' what she's doing, but respect as in 'polite or kind regard' for what she is doing?

I know you have done a lot for her and your plan to step back is a good one.  Maybe just giving her a little encouragement or respect without any more lessons on how to do it is something she needs.  I don't know, I'm just trying to see it from her viewpoint - she's certainly frustrated.    It sounds like she could benefit from a loving and cheerful presence in her life while she tries to build the foundation for her family.

[jill1963]

no i dont mean to belittle my YDD in any way shape or form, and yes i do understand she is making her way and i respect it, what i dont except is her nastiness and way off doing things when she speaks to me sometimes, am afraid you havent been there or had to put up with that, i have given her help only when asked or offered when she has said she has had a problem, i havent gone in there all gung ho and pushed my way in, that is not my way
And i am loving and cheerful when i do get to speak to her, i dont put my viewpoint across or tell her how to do things. I bite my tongue when i disagree with how she is disciplining my GS as i know it wont do any good as she thinks i am defending him (i have said in the past maybe he is playing up because of all the changes) but not for a long while now.
Yes i am trying to be a loving Mother, but a precence i am not particularly allowed to be even if i wished to be that.
She herself when she does speak to me sometimes tries to tell me how to run my life, she has a problem with her older sister on and off amongst other things so it is really a two way street.
Like i said i am going to pull back, all i actually want is a trouble free communication with my YDD and to maybe see my GC from time to time without tying myself up in knots about asking because i am afraid of the reponse i will get
Jill

[Doe]

Jill, I have been there - otherwise, I wouldn't be here.   

More and more as I go along, I feel that the person who needs to be tended to and worked on is myself.  My DIL and her husband can be nasty to me and cut me off and punish me and that is something I can't control.  I can stop torturing myself by going back for more of the behavior and redirect my attention to nicer people.

Personally, what I'm working on is being more of a cheerful loving person - not just someone who tries to be cheerful, but someone who is actually cheerfully enjoying life and accepting what's out of my control.    I like the saying "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."  Your daughter has one heck of a battle going on in her life, I'd say.  Not much you can do about that unless she wants you to help her. 

[luise.volta]

J - You have let us know about everyone but yourself…(except in how you relate and react to everyone else.) You are an individaul. What are you own hopes and dreams that don't involve others? What can you you do for yourself and give yourself as you move past parentling? We are more than moms…we're adults who have the opportunity to move on with our lives after parenting. It is so easy to see what isn't working in the lives of those we love…and…that's their job, not ours.

I hope you know that I have to tell myself this same thing every day. My expectations of others gets in the way and I have to pull back constantly and create my own expectations. My life is my business…I forget that. Theirs isn't. Sending love...

[Pooh]

Yep, and I promise, we do know what it's like to wish for different responses.  I would love to see my GD, but it's just not in my cards right now because it is out of my control.  What is in my control is to not let people treat me with disrespect and invisibility.  I'm not invisible.  I can see myself just fine so it must be them. 

[Lisa41]

Welcome,
I was in a similar situation. My AD lived with me when my first 2 GC were born. When she moved, she made a series of bad choices (my opinion.) So I understand, it is very difficult to watch these things happen.
Like Pooh, I would love to see my GC every day like I used to. But I just can't allow myself to be treated so poorly anymore. As she said, it's really the only thing we can control.
I know it is easier said than done, but Luise is right...you have to make a life seperate from them. When we have spent our whole lives taking care of others it is a difficult transition at best. One day at a time.
Take care

[jill1963]

Hi Luise, everyone else,

as you asked here is some background information about me, firstly am from the UK, my Mother died when i was 7 of a heart tumour, left 3 brothers and me all various ages, got re-married and i gained 2 more brothers, didnt always get on with my  step-mom when i was a child of course she favoured her own two children so wasnt easy, however as an adult and once she became ill (lung cancer) i got on with her and was there for her. She also died. Lastly my Dad got married again, (now i gained a sister!), been there done that had enough of step parents and too late for me to have the sister i wanted as a child, so although i get on with them its not as easy as it was before, and i sometimes think her daughter has taken over from me :-(  Anyway the point is i only had 1 constant parent My Dad who i love with all my heart, not always easy to get on with but always there for me. As i said family business, set up by my Dad, i work with my 3 natural brothers so see them mostly all week, (unless off ill or on holiday etc) we mostly get on with the occasional spat (cant really bring quarrels into the work place.)
When my natural Mother died to help my Dad myself and two of my other brothers were taken in by my Dads relatives so as he could sort himself out and continue working, i also was subject to my Moms sisters (my Aunts) taking me on various jaunts to see another set of relatives as i was the only girl. So you see when i was growing up seeing relatives wasnt a problem :-), my Dad needed help and accepted it.
Anyway i have to go to work so will explain about my AC etc in another post.
Hope you dont think i am strange with my upbringing?
Jill

[jill1963]

ok on to AC, to cut a long story short, as small kids they were great, it was always me that did things with them, took them places, they did see their GP quite often all though i didn't get them to baby sit much............ probably my fault i possibly did too much, i always had neighbours kids round, as they got older sleepovers, you get the gist. 
Anyway they got to teenagers, not so easy, hanging out at the park getting drunk etc, telling me lies all sorts. In amongst all this my YDD developed Type 1 diabetes (insulin dependant) diabetes is quite prevalent in my family (my younger brother also has type 1) and myself and my other natural brothers have all developed Type 2 diabetes (tablets & diet) so i think i became a bit more protective and indulgent with her because i felt guilty about her condition (she was 15 when diabetes developed)
Anyway both my daughters still lived at home when the dreaded going out to nightclubs etc started (in the UK you are allowed to drink at 18) My YDD was a nightmare, she used to get so drunk she collapsed, she even got herself arrested and spent a night in the police cells, and worst of all glassed (someone threw a glass in her face) i stopped drinking myself (not a bad thing i suppose) as i would never drink and drive, so as i could go pick them up from nightclubs in the hope of her yet again not being in trouble, i must of visited most of the hospitals in my City because of her, rather unfairly i made my ODD accompany her sister, although not perfect she didn't have such a problem with the alcohol, but of course when my YDD was drunk she was also very verbally abusive, so was not pleasant for anyone ( and of course when you are drunk you blame everyone close for all your troubles and hang ups which she did :-( ) Anyway through it all i supported both of them.
My YDD also since her Diabetes diagnosis became a very angry young woman, didn't like it at all took her years to accept her condition and deal with it better, in fact the time when she was best with it was when she found out she was pregnant with my GS, as she realised she needed to be more responsible. However when her son was born he was ill and in a neonatal unit for a bit so i don't think she bonded as well, when she got out and the fact that her BF still lived at home with his family didn't help matters, so myself and my ODD looked after him more than YDD did.
That i think is why it hurts so much with the way she is now, i understand she is trying to do things better now she has her DD, but my GS shouldn't suffer because they werent around to put their discipline in place very often as he was always with us. I also understand that it is no longer up to me to say anything, but is very painful to watch when visiting.
That is why i find stepping back so hard, i understand now that i did too much for her and her sister (but YDD in particular), i cant go back and change that, i wonder if it is because my own Mom was not there (not her fault she couldn't help dying) that i felt i always had to be there for them?
In the midst of it i know i have lost myself, i never kept up many true friends as i was always tied up doing things with my daughters, my DH was never one to get involved so i dint feel close to him, i am not even sure i still love him but i care for him deeply, my ODD is still at home she suffers from depression and anxiety ( which sometimes infuriates my YDD who thinks she takes advantage of me) , i dint consider my ODD does take advantage of me, yes she lives at home and i pay for most things, but she has been there to listen when i am upset and help me see reason amongst other things. But i also know she will go eventually and i need to start untangling what i want.

Anyway enough of this depression!!  my hopes and dreams away from my children i have already started with the new year.
when i had my children i put on weight which has steadily gone up over the years to that end i have now lost over a stone and wish to continue to lose weight, not because i want to leave my husband or anything like that but because my weight has stopped me doing so many things over the years, so my confidence out of my safety zone (home & family) is very low.
You also may think this is a silly one, but for the new year i also got myself a radical new hairstyle ( to which i have already had quite a few compliments),
Like i said i am trying to step back, for self preservation from my YDD, i would like a relationship with her and i do sort of have one but feel i am treading on eggshells most of the time in case i say something wrong,
so my hope is to step back, which i felt i could not do until my GD was safely here, now that has happened i will offer my support verbally ( IE say i am here if you need to speak to me) but not rush forward and offer to do things which sometimes her BF should do (IE the garden or certain aspects of cleaning i did because she was pregnant) because she says she wants it done but he hasn't done it yet, this also runs to financial help as i am not always going to be able to do this.
I also need to try help my ODD get out of her problems and possibly give her a gentle push to sort her life out a bit, i don't want to cling on to her because of my YDD, although i will say although she always thought/thinks i favour her younger sister my ODD has always been easier to get along with and has an easier going temperament.
I am however at a loss to know how i make more friends, it is too late to rekindle some friendships and others are still very much involved with their families with little time for outsiders,   i am as you say at a bit of a loss to know how to "get back into the saddle" (hopefully that is the right saying!!) 
sorry for my long posts, hopefully that explains more about myself?
Jill