Controlling dil

[justanoldgrandma]

My DIL jokes about her and her family's OCD tendencies. As a fairly relaxed housekeeper I don't find it so amusing, actually...and I do walk on eggshells/modify my relaxed behavior because if DIL doesn't want to be around us we see less of DS.

Fun Facts FYI, the difference between the idioms "walking on eggshells" and "walking on eggs" is that the former refers to not wanting to upset someone, and the latter refers to being in a precarious position. I just found that out.

Pen, your first paragraph explains my "precarious" position...... if DIL becomes angry with us, (in contradicting her, trying to tell her I get upset with such and such, retorting as ds does), the less we will see around DS and gc.  We see little of them now bc of ds's work and the family going to dil's FOO and out w her friends (now ds's friends, too); there's little opportunity for us to see them......

I've seen her cut people out of her life and out of  ds's and gc's.  She sees less of two of her oldest gf's bc their children are really messy and "out of control"; she just makes excuses not to see them.  With a new member of her FOO through marriage, the new member blew up at the FOO over feeling laughed at; the FOO was willing to cut her out unless she apologized which she didn't; things were tense for a long time; the FOO were sure that the son would side with them, not w his wife....... he sided with his wife...... the FOO was willing to never see the new IL, didn't like her anyway, was taking son away from the FOO by marriage.

So the FOO is so close they really don't care if "outsiders" agree with them or not; dil has followed that.  on the ocd, dil is much more into looks, clothes, hair, than the others in her FOO; she isn't OCD except in her appearance and of her gc.......

I just know that I need assertiveness, more self-esteem, etc....... hopefully dil will realize I can't be "yelled at."  And I need some good comebacks; when I do come up with one, she does look amazed and I feel better; (she doesn't have a lot of sense of humor); when I laugh at things it makes her mad; but that's okay!  She did  tell OS's friend that OS and friend needed to spend a weekend with us (to make up for dil and family being at FOO's); the friend said, no, have other plans.  DIL was so frustrated and amazed!  It's so rare that someone says no to her....... she doesn't like it, but it needs to be said!

[elizabeth]

You got repremanded for not writting down when the nappies were changed?

Don't they remember if the babe pooped that day or not without making a record of it,
or is this for posterity? LOL. Somehow this thing about writing downthe nappie schedule says it all.

On another point,

I was really sad about what happened to your grandaughter Jtdm, so so difficult a situation and to have to stand by and not know how to protect the little ones.

I'm glad to read, JustGrandma, your Dil seems not to have that sort of trouble, nevertheless, I think your GC's must feel ignored much of the time.  They are fortunate to have many grandparents and family around to make up for that.

 Poor Dil, what an awful prison she lives within herself, all those rules!!! Yikes! It would make me a nervous wreck to be around her, you are doing so well.

[JudyJudyJudy]

My daughter was exactly the same way.  I finally stood up for myself and told her she was not going to control me any longer.  She has not spoken to me in months (which is wonderful) but she also will not let me see my only grandson who just turned one year old.

You have to decide if the relationship is worth keeping.  It sounds like everyone else just accepts her just to stay in touch with her.  If you decide to keep putting up with it, you just might end up confused, hurt and upset if you cannot remind yourself that it is her with the problem and not you.

[summergirl123]

I think that if you are in the DIL/Son's home and DIL asks a question - "why are the eggs still out?"  Simply answer her - I haven't put them away yet or I don't know or whatever.  If she's in your house - then just say "because".  Same with all the other questions.  It sounds like you are at her home - and I don't know how often as you've said that you see her more than DH.  Why are you there so often?  Are you there to help and if so, is it asked or requested for by the DIL?  If not, maybe she finds it annoying that you are in her home washing/ drying clothes, changing daughter, cooking breakfast. 

I think you understand that you are quite different than she is.  But, why do you assume that your way is the correct way?  I see my own SIL/MIL be passive and I am more assertive - I don't find that to be wrong - to each his own!  Some people are meant to be passive and some not - As for the issues of how she behaves towards her family and towards your son - in my opinion, that's really just between them. 

It is very easy to judge people based on simple things - but you can't possibly know the entire dynamic between your son and his wife and family.  Maybe, like someone said, when she asked why he was late - there was a part of her that was worried about him.  My DH called me (we work together and I had left already) and said he was close did I want him to pick up my son at after school.  I said I was closer and I'd see him at home.  But, he decided to stop off at a store close by to look around.  When he didn't come home - I started to worry.  I can easily see my MIL not knowing those details and just hearing - where were you?

Please try and remember that even in your own relationship, your DIL might see it as odd or bad.  She might think that because of your personality of being passive that your DH - her FIL takes advantage of you.  Would you want her to judge him and you that way?

I say that if she's taking advantage of you by asking you to do things and then she is rude with her why questions - then just stop doing them.  But, really - they don't seem like that big of a deal to me.

[Keys Girl]

Here's my suggestion.......

For your New Years Resolution tell your DIL that you resolve to charge every single person a $1 fee for you to answer a "Why" question.  Choose a different charity every month and you might ask her for her input on which one she wants to donate to........encourage her to ask "Why" questions and ask for the $1 fee on the spot.

"Why are they eggs out?".......because the Food Bank needs your $1

my former MIL used to take out her hearing aid when she didn't like the conversation and leave the room.  Worked for her.

[Pooh]

Ha ha ha...my Mom does the same thing with hers...turns the volume all the way down!

[justanoldgrandma]

Yes, Pooh and Keys Girl, it does help to have a sense of humor!  I have these "not so big deals"  off my chest.  Holidays have a way of exaggerating complaints.

These family things are very hard to express in forums w/o sounding ridiculous (in my postings.)  Summer, you'd have to be there to get it, to do your best and yet feel; really, complex and too difficult to get into w/o being a "poor me"; I could go on and on to justify, explaining each circumstance and my ill-chosen words, I realize how it all sounds that I am being intolerant; but it's all fine.....it is no big deal; young people can sometimes put things in perspective! 

Thanks, ladies; some good advice!

[justanoldgrandma]

I think that if you are in the DIL/Son's home and DIL asks a question - "why are the eggs still out?"  Simply answer her - I haven't put them away yet or I don't know or whatever.  If she's in your house - then just say "because".  Same with all the other questions.  It sounds like you are at her home - and I don't know how often as you've said that you see her more than DH.  Why are you there so often?  Are you there to help and if so, is it asked or requested for by the DIL?  If not, maybe she finds it annoying that you are in her home washing/ drying clothes, changing daughter, cooking breakfast. 

I think you understand that you are quite different than she is.  But, why do you assume that your way is the correct way?  I see my own SIL/MIL be passive and I am more assertive - I don't find that to be wrong - to each his own!  Some people are meant to be passive and some not - As for the issues of how she behaves towards her family and towards your son - in my opinion, that's really just between them. 

It is very easy to judge people based on simple things - but you can't possibly know the entire dynamic between your son and his wife and family.  Maybe, like someone said, when she asked why he was late - there was a part of her that was worried about him.  My DH called me (we work together and I had left already) and said he was close did I want him to pick up my son at after school.  I said I was closer and I'd see him at home.  But, he decided to stop off at a store close by to look around.  When he didn't come home - I started to worry.  I can easily see my MIL not knowing those details and just hearing - where were you?

Please try and remember that even in your own relationship, your DIL might see it as odd or bad.  She might think that because of your personality of being passive that your DH - her FIL takes advantage of you.  Would you want her to judge him and you that way?

I say that if she's taking advantage of you by asking you to do things and then she is rude with her why questions - then just stop doing them.  But, really - they don't seem like that big of a deal to me."  end of quote by Summer.


Summer, wonder if you read all the posts and replies in this thread; things aren't simple as we think they are as dils; I never realized how my dparents and ILs felt about things until I became older.  I can remember being a dil; you'll realize how being a mil is someday and I hope it's happy.

Okay, Summer, gotta say.  It's not so easy just to say "because" bc someone who is impatient, etc., won't accept that; gotta know why.  Wants that answer and now.  i am learning how to deal w this.  DH is w me when we visit or they visit; he just spends more time w outside chores and w ds and I'm w dil more.  We are asked to come help, we never ask ourselves.  We are appreciated.  They are grateful for any household help we give.  They request our help which we honestly want to do bc we were raised to be that way (oldtimers!) and also bc we get to see the family more that way than sitting in the living room watching t.v. 

 We do not intrude; we ask before doing anything...... yes, I could sit on my butt and play w the gc all the time or go shopping, but if I can help, I do.  Most of the time things go fine and when they don't, I have learned to cope.  Believe me, we wouldn't do any helping if it is annoying; we know when to back off.  We especially back off when the children want their parents; we stay out of discipline and bedtime rituals, etc.  Believe me, if I felt I was being annoying in helping, I wouldn't help!

As for the infamous, "why are you late" it's bc supper was ready and ds was in a conference; he couldn't leave yet; it's his job; he told her so on the phone and had told her he would be home at such and such time bc of it that am before work (and he was home when he said he'd be home, just later than usual.) but she was upset and didn't understand why his coworkers couldn't take over.  I heard her conversation as I was in the room and also ds's explanation when he came home.  We stayed out of it.  We knew it was just stress.  She knew where he was, why, and when he was coming home.  Just wanted to clear that up; it wasn't a safety issue or not knowing where he was/doing.

Ok,, so your sil and mil are passive.  People who know me don't think of me as being passive; I'm outgoing and stick up for myself; have learned to.  So why don't I tell dil off when questioned?  DS and gc.  Dils hold the key to these things.  DS does negotiate to see us often (thus our being there so often and vice versa) but we don't want family feuds so we give in; and dh and I have an equal marriage; he just doesn't tolerate being questioned and told what to do any more than I do. 

Btw, even though my dh is far from being a wimp and I stand up to him also when we disagree, dil admires our marriage and has said so, w/o being asked.  Far from my being taken advantage of, I admire my husband for being his own man and also for his consideration for me.  We've been married far longer, happily, than nearly anyone our age.  It's mutual respect and tolerance and some disagreements!  But no domination on either side.  Neither of us believes in treating the other rudely.  That's why it's such a shock when we hear rude statements made to spouses and to the older generation. 

I wonder if your sil and mil are passive w everyone and surely you don't take advantage of that as you are "assertive."  I'm sure you are considerate of them and they aren't leery of stepping on toes......

I do hope that you never have a dil problem; it's hard to even think of when you must have a mil and sil who are easy to deal with; hope your children marry into kind, considerate families, also.  if not, you'll "get it."  Sincerely hope you never do.

No one understands what goes on in a mil's life who is so anxious to please and yet keep her self-esteem and love of the family until..... you walk in her shoes.  Hope you never do.  it's not easy.

BTW, some of the other responses by other dils impress me that they do understand not wanting to be walking on eggshells; dils nor mils want to be uneasy w their ILs.

[justanoldgrandma]

My daughter was exactly the same way.  I finally stood up for myself and told her she was not going to control me any longer.  She has not spoken to me in months (which is wonderful) but she also will not let me see my only grandson who just turned one year old.

You have to decide if the relationship is worth keeping.  It sounds like everyone else just accepts her just to stay in touch with her.  If you decide to keep putting up with it, you just might end up confused, hurt and upset if you cannot remind yourself that it is her with the problem and not you.

Judy, thanks for summing it all up for me.  (I think I'm through with this thread, having read everyone's comments and having gotten some very good hints on how to handle this relationship.  I have been leery to holding it all in and exploding, telling dil what you told your dd; (that's why I get help in dealing w this frustration so I don't); but I don't want to lose ds and gc so I am learning how to deal w it (book Walking on Eggshells).....

I'm sorry you haven't seen your gs for so long; this is why mils understand we have to either learn to deal w difficult ILs or go ahead and tell them off. 

Sounds like your dd is like some dils who realize they hold the cards; they can control the dm or mil's seeing the gc; I think when the young moms sometimes act this way, they may or may not realize that they do "hold the cards" and do or do not care that hearts are broken when they cut off the gps seeing the gc. 

I'm glad you got your say, Judy; I hope your dd will soon realize that she shouldn't deprive you of her company and of her child's; at the same time, that she should not attempt to be controlling of you; it's respect of her dm. 

In my situation, ILs family has disagreements, times of not speaking to each other, telling each other off; lots of drama.  I'm not used to this!  I'm not a pacifist, just not a controller or a drama queen!  Our ds has become more considerate of us bc of our lack of demanding and yet a convo w him; dil, too.....

And you're right, Judy, in observing her interactions and manner of speaking/acting w others, including her own FOO, I do see the problem is with her, not with me...... everyone else just accepts her behavior bc they don't think it that strange as she's always been this way and their family is very outspoken also. 

With this awareness, I am learning to ignore a lot, use some humor (whether she gets it or not!), walk out of the room, give a look...... it works to help her understand how to treat me and I am gaining in self-respect.

Thanks.

[Pooh]

What is "not so big deals" to one person, are huge to another.  Everyone has their "not so big deals" that if stood on their own, probably are small stuff, but combined together or with historical behavior, can create big issues.

I get it justanoldgrandma.  It's the feeling that no matter what you do to help, or when you're asked to help, it's never good enough and feels like constand criticism.  So you tiptoe around, trying to do stuff right, trying your way, their way and end up being made to feel badly in the end no matter which way you pick.  No one likes being made to feel that way, no matter what the title (DIL/MIL, etc.)

[justanoldgrandma]

Thanks, Pooh; I know you get it!  And this site has a lot of good hints; especially since I realize it isn't "me"; I can only control my own actions/thoughts!  It's gonna be a learning process......

[phillek]

I'm sorry your DIL has hurt your feelings so much.  I don't think I can help with that one, but I wanted to share a perspective that may be able to help you regarding the way she behaves toward your DS.

I was thinking about myself and my DH, as well as other couples I know.  DH and I love each other very much, and there is no doubt in my mind that we make each other happy and will have a long successful marriage.  But, like everyone, we are not perfect individuals.  We both have bad habits.  When we are comfortable and alone, we both do and say things that others might find obnoxious.  Sometimes, for example, I whine for him to bring me things, and he jumps to it.  He has bad habits, too, but I can't even think of any right now because I do not let them bother me, but instead love them.  We have learned to love everything about each other, including the ugly stuff.  If there is something really big or hurtful, we know we can bring it up, and then we have to decide whether one needs to change or the other needs to just accept it.  This is why I would never sign up for a reality TV show.  Viewers would be able to pick our marriage apart in one episode, taking sides and counting flaws.  It's kind of the same thing when someone stays in your home for an extended period of time.  You try to be on your best behavior, but eventually you get comfortable and revert to your true self, and others are left to judge.

My point is, maybe in a wierd way, your DS likes your DILs princess (even controlling) behavior.  I know there was a time when you knew DS as well as I know my one year old DS, but he is basically a different person now, and his preferences might surprise you.  You just have to trust that if DIL is really hurting him, he will be adult enough to handle it on his own.  If he isn't changing it, then it must not be bothering him, and you shouldn't let it bother you.

[Pooh]

I totally agree phillek.  I know my OS has to like DIL's controlling behavior because he's lazy (he will work his butt off but if the gutters need cleaning out....), never liked to make decisions and is a major procrastinator.  So I am sure he is happy letting her make all decisions.  I'm just hoping someday he realizes that letting her make decisions about who he can be friends with, what family he can see and what he can go do, is not a relationship but a personal dictatorship.  To do that though, he will have to step up to the plate and make day-to-day decisions too and not leave it everything on her. 

[Begonia]

It is so helpful to have this forum to "sound out" our feelings and the various ways we are dealing with things.  Every family has their own dynamic but there are some solid things we all agree on. One of them is that we need to be treated with respect.  One thing you said, JAOG, is that you hoped DIL will realize you shouldn't be yelled at.  Well, unfortunately she probably won't until you say, simply, "Please never yell at me again."  Like you mentioned, nobody says no to her.  Well, you have that right.  I admire you for caring so much and for your posts here. 

[justanoldgrandma]

Oh, thanks for the kind words, Begonia; and you are right; I have started being less apologetic and agreeable and hope to continue to; I'd get no support but scorn if I "started a fight" as the song says, but your simple words suggested are right on; dil would justify her anger and words but the saving thing would be to get up and leave the room before I even hear the rest!  I've left the room before after a simple retort or "hmmmm" and it saves an argument and gets the point across!  Not into justifying or any of that!

And yes, Phillek, ds is on his own!