I dont know my son anymore

[thebeeev]

my son went off to college when he was 17. I was a single mom till he was 21, since he was 3. I have always been so close with him until he graduated and move to NYC where he became an actor on broadway. He married a gal that was also in the business. But when I went to visit him there I noticed his personality had changed. He was more into himself, his friends. He became someone that I did not know at all. Very self serving, narcissistic and someone I did not like very well. His marriage lasted 7 yrs, no kids. I tried to talk to him about my feelings and he said it was all me. He has issues of his girlfriends leaving him, his own  of self I think. I do believe he blames me for some reason in part. He is my only child, Anyway, he got married again last year, well to do family very high up the social ladder, right where he fits in.  His wife is just like him. Here is my problem, he and his wife came by for a few days, they live far away from us, most of the time when they come its only for a few days, he says I should be happy with that. We got into a argument because he as usual was short with me and hurt my feeling. I then blurted out what I had been feeling for the last 20 some years. I told him he was a mean, did not need to talk down to me, did not need to  come here and treat me with little respect for my feeling ext. I was crying out loud and I am sure his wife didn't know what to do,.Here is how I feel right now. I get this way everytime I am around him. I have anxiety, I know he will make me feel less than I am. When my husband and I talk to him, he will all of a sudden just talk to his wife like out words mean nothing it really is awful to experience. It like we do have a value with him. He thinks its all me, he is fine and he does not go treat us bad per say, he does so by not acknowledging us as important or as important when we are together which is only a few times a yr maybe. Is this normal not to want to be around him anylonger because I do not want to open myself up to feeling less and not important.

[sesamejane]

welcome thebeeev,

It is very hurtful to be treated with little respect.  Your son's behavior to you is awful, and I am sorry.  I think you should listen to your instincts.  You do not owe him anything but respect, and he owes you nothing but respect.  When that is not present, it is not healthy. 

I also feel this way with my son.  He became a fundamentalist Christian and not many people are able to live up to he and my dil's standards.  They don't even live up to them!!!  Unfortunately, your son, like mine, does sound narcissistic and insensitive.  But it is his life to do as he pleases.  My son has his own life to live too, and I do not want to be around him and dil. 

It gets better over time; the missing of them.  I missed the boy I raised who was loving, funny, and sweet.  The man he is now is unrecognizable to me-and I don't miss him one bit.  he is foolish as is your son.  You are a good and loving mom, and deserve to be treated better.

Welcome the beeev; there are wonderful and wise women on this site.  So glad you posted!

[Pooh]

Hi, the beeev.  I moved your topic to this category so people could find it.  Welcome - Please read the two posts under Open Me First. One is the Forum Agreement which has to be a fit for this to work…and the other is How This Happened…our history. Thanks.

If you are tired of being treated disrespectfully by him, then you don't have to see him.  You can be unavailable when they want to visit.  We find that many of our AC take different paths than what we thought they would, and all we can do is hope that they are happy in their new lives.  And like Jane said, we miss who they used to be and don't have to like the person they are now.  We can love them...but we don't have to like them.

[Doe]

Hi-

When I left home, I went to NYC and it was a completely different world from the one I came from.  I needed a different set of social skills to make my way.  So I can see your son changing, especially if he is an actor!

Also, I left home at 18 and only went back a couple of times a year till I married.  Then it turned into once a year.  Not once did I ever hear my parents question their importance.  They did miss me but they didn't come see me like I went to see them.   They didn't load me down with their insecurities ( I just realized that).

Can you imagine a life where you are too busy to see him when he comes by?  You are so happy with your husband and your son is way out on the perimeter of your life?  I believe that you can become stronger by acting stronger, little by little, bit by bit.

[thebeeev]

I do realize everything I am doing is because I feel the need to be more important when they are visiting. I feel that at age 42 he should know better. He is loving, very sweet, shows it to me all the time he is here, it just that little annoyance of something is not quite right, I could ignore it, and get anxiety when they come. I have 3 ulcers and not feeling all that great right now, I think he knows that I am so over all this, I have never blown up at him before, I guess I just let it out because I was so tired of some of the indifference he shows, not all the time but its there.  Maybe I will have to get a therapist. He wants us to come down to Florida  sometime, I have 4 dogs, and he thinks I love them more. I love them different and am responsible for them since they are all rescues. He loves them too. But I am so afraid if I go down there with all the expense and he says something like well ( his wife's) mom and dad do this and do that, they are rich, well it makes me feel less. If they have kids, so and so will come and babysite, I don't have to worry about it, so I let it run off my back. Most the time we are all good, when he is on his own with us he is soooooooooooo different. I don't want to put any more guilt on him, I just want to not have any more anxiety in my life. I read the book a New Earth, and it is really an eye opener, I gave it to my son to read, but looks like he didn't read it. Everyone should read it. Thank you all for listen to me. I would not tell my son that I am done with him, I would ask him to please spend Christmas with his wife's family, because I love the season and I do not want to be upset. They spend everyother Christmas here,  last time was great as long as I did not act a certain way or say things that would puss him off.  any way  ............

[Doe]

Hmm  I hear you about not wanting the anxiety.  I'm not a fan of medicating anxiety so my solutions lie along the line of getting enough exercise to tire myself out, eating well, doing what it takes to re-focus myself on the positives in my life.   B-1 and all the B vits are stress relievers, also some herbal teas.  If you could just focus on healing your ulcers I imagine things would look a bit brighter.

There's a way to detach yourself from your son without cutting him off.  I don't know how to tell you to get there but for me, I've had to let my "little boy" die so that I can know the man who is my son.  I was suffering more when there was some physical longing for my boy but now it's changed to a relationship with another adult who I love who is my son.  (Though he's pushing me at the moment....)  I don't feel the life seeping out of me into his direction anymore. 

I hope you'll stick around here and spill some more feelings if you want and get the idea that you're not alone.  It's been a great eye opening place for me.

[Ruth]

Yes, Doe, this is exactly what I've said also.  There seems to be a 'sickness' there that gets us stuck, whereby Mom still views that huge lump of a man as her little child, he might get hurt on the playground or smashed by a bus.  We can't get well until we let go, get hold of the fact that ds or dd is not a child any longer, and we are not the mother of a minor child. 

[Sassy]

I also support the idea of detaching without cut off.  I like the idea of balance and no permanent decisions.

One way I know to detach is to observe their behavior as being all about them.  Not as a reflection of you.  Just for example, not that any of these are the case, but interrupting conversations, distraction, something being off sometimes, could also be explained by other things not about disrespecting you at all. But about him. Such as (diagnosed or undiagnosed) ADD. Or an ADD style of communicating, how people text, talk, drive, email at the same time - yes it's maddening!  Side effect of (legal or illegal) drug or alcohol use. It could be explained by simply a New Yorker's very famous impatience. That city on the go state of mind. Anything other than straight to the point can be like nails on a chalkboard.

Walking on eggshells is never fun.  I don't know if there are triggers DS has told you irritates him.   Or if he lashes out unpredicatably.  I don't know what he's communicated to you or asked from you in terms of what makes him uncomfortable when you are together.  It would be great if he did because that at least gives you ideas about how to make visits more pleasant.

I hope you find a way to reduce visits.  Get some breathing space.  You'll develop a different look at your son. He's 42, he's been away from your home longer than he lived there.  If he asks to see you at Christmas, and if you don't want to, you can say you have other plans at that time.   Hotels (if either you/DH or DS/DIL don't stay at them, already)  might make visits feel different. Meet to go out to eat, or a movie or a walk.  Try different ways to detach, and see what works for you.  See what DS does as being about DS and not a reflection of your importance.   That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.   I hope detached calm balance is the kind of love in your future.

[Begonia]

Beev: My son is this age and has been married twice.  And I was a single mom and we were close. 

I have, until the last few months, walked on eggshells.  That is a LOT OF YEARS of anxiety.  Think about it.  And one day he would be fine and then not even acknowledge me on my birthday.  Up and down.  It is an old story here on these forums, one that sounds remarkably the same, over and over.  So something has to change and that change is US.  Wise Women.  We draw the line.  I like to call it "stopping the bleeding."  Then giving space so the wound can heal on both sides. 

The thing that gives the most clarity is to disengage from any contact for a period of time.  If there is a call, be cordial; if there is an email answer or not, but cut it short at the first indication of your own anxiety.  Be in control of you, don't let your DS control you any longer. 

This takes awhile, but you will feel better and a lot less anxious because you are in control.  Leave the DIL out of it, because DS like to hide behind DIL--sometimes even shifting things to her, which she doesn't deserve. This problem is between you and DS. 

The more you gain control over what you will allow, the stronger you will become.  In my case I had to stop begging for attention, begging for pics of the GC, begging to get together, etc.  This has been hard work, but I feel much more stable.  We have been good mothers, we do not deserve disrespect or to be a doormat any longer. 

Great that you found this site...keep posting.  Great folks here. 

[lancaster lady]

Beev:

Hi and Welcome ;
You say your son is loving and sweet , but at the same time annoys you ?
Is he aware of annoying you ?
I know you had that bust up , but does he know why ?
I find that visits with adult kids have to be light and fun .No one wants a desperate clingy Mom , especially
when your are 42 . I know you are so pleased to see him , let him know and leave it at that .
Don't bring up all the times you haven't seen him , not that you do .
We have to make them actually want to visit , want to see us again .
My own late MIL always gave my DH a hard time each time he phoned , eventually he stopped !
He might be unaware that he is interrupting or annoying you .
Enjoy the time you have when he's there .
He has his own life , and I'm afraid that we moms are not number one on their priority list,
for most of us we are lucky to be given a slot .
Maybe I have got this all wrong , and if so forgive me , but he seems to want to visit his Mom
and I hope he still wants to , good luck .

[Sista]

This is my first time on this site.  I want to say how sorry I am for your pain!  Our older son was divorced and his dad and I were there 100 % for him.  He then went to the military and on to war.  After war he married a woman he knew for a very short while.  In the last 4 years he has completely turned away from his family.  I have been told he basically hates me, his dad, his brother and his family and even his daughter from a previous marriage.  He tries to control us all with hate and a "better than thou" attitude. We have not talked for 10 months.   I wept and cried out to him for mercy for 2 years.  I never know what he is mad at us about.  Then one day I wiped away the tears and began to get a grip.  I finally realized and so did my husband that we had to let go and let God.  We dont just want our son back anymore.  We want him to turn to God first and then come back to us.  Only God can give us the peace that passes all understanding as our hearts ache and are weary at times for our son. 

I read a story a while back and it said "there was 2 children who had a perfect father and he watched over them and made sure they lacked nothing.  They were given the best food and a wonderful property to live on.  Everything they needed was provided.  They lacked nothing.  Then one day they became aware that there was only one thing they were not allowed and they decided they wanted that one thing.  Their father was such a wonderful father and he would of given his life for them but they didn't care they were greedy and chose to disobey their father.  They became sorry after their disobedience and tried to lie to their father after he questioned them.  Their lives were never the same as you see they were sent away from their beautiful home to live in a world that they did not know.  These children were Adam and Eve and the father is God.  If man can turn against God then how much more our children can turn against us.  God does know our pain and he knows our sorrow.  Please know that prayer will change things.  That is our one and only hope.  We know that our children walk in this world but not always with usnor with God.  I grieve for you and I know your pain. 

When you feel most like giving up put your pain and your sorrow at the feet of Jesus!!  God bless you and yours.   Sista

[Kate123]

Beeve, the little boy you knew is still inside of him, but so are many others. All of his experiences added to his pesonality and you have to get to know all of them so to speak. I would be grateful if my children did all that your son is doing-every other Christmas-I'll take that! Sounds to me like he cares for you very much but is not 100% focused on you when he is with you. Maybe he has problems you are not aware of.

[Pen]

This is my first time on this site.  I want to say how sorry I am for your pain!  Our older son was divorced and his dad and I were there 100 % for him.  He then went to the military and on to war.  After war he married a woman he knew for a very short while.  In the last 4 years he has completely turned away from his family.  I have been told he basically hates me, his dad, his brother and his family and even his daughter from a previous marriage.  He tries to control us all with hate and a "better than thou" attitude. We have not talked for 10 months.   I wept and cried out to him for mercy for 2 years.  I never know what he is mad at us about.  Then one day I wiped away the tears and began to get a grip.  I finally realized and so did my husband that we had to let go and let God.  We dont just want our son back anymore.  We want him to turn to God first and then come back to us.  Only God can give us the peace that passes all understanding as our hearts ache and are weary at times for our son. 

I read a story a while back and it said "there was 2 children who had a perfect father and he watched over them and made sure they lacked nothing.  They were given the best food and a wonderful property to live on.  Everything they needed was provided.  They lacked nothing.  Then one day they became aware that there was only one thing they were not allowed and they decided they wanted that one thing.  Their father was such a wonderful father and he would of given his life for them but they didn't care they were greedy and chose to disobey their father.  They became sorry after their disobedience and tried to lie to their father after he questioned them.  Their lives were never the same as you see they were sent away from their beautiful home to live in a world that they did not know.  These children were Adam and Eve and the father is God.  If man can turn against God then how much more our children can turn against us.  God does know our pain and he knows our sorrow.  Please know that prayer will change things.  That is our one and only hope.  We know that our children walk in this world but not always with usnor with God.  I grieve for you and I know your pain. 

When you feel most like giving up put your pain and your sorrow at the feet of Jesus!!  God bless you and yours.   Sista

Welcome, Sista. I'm glad to hear that you and your DH came to grips with your situation. It's helpful for others to know that life beyond being a mom is possible. That said, I will direct you to the Forum Agreement & How This Happened on the home page under Open Me First. We ask this of all new members to make sure the site is a good fit. One thing we insist on, for the health of the site, is that everyone's beliefs be respected and that we all feel our particular religion (or lack thereof) is valid. I'm sure you understand how things can get out of hand if we don't have guidelines about discussing religion, or politics for that matter, lol.

[Nana]

Dear Sista:
I am sorry you are hurting, but I am a little confused. Like Lancaster Lady, I feel that your son does want to be with you and to visit, in fact he does.  If he is often Sweet with you....dont drive him away.   Just talk to him in a mature manner without being emotional and let him know how you feel. 

You have the opportunity in your hands many ladies here dont have.  He comes to visit you and he also asks you to visit them...wonderful!  Maybe you could change being so emotional with him.  I am not judging you.  I use to be like that with my son and I had to make some changes and surprisingly he changed for the better too.  And now I like better the person I am.  Why?  Because I dont suffer anymore as I use to.  I now understand he is an adult, with his own problems and concerns and sometimes isnt so thoughtful and nice.    I love my children every single day...and always will....but there are these days that I could strangled them. 

If I had the wrong perception I apologize.  I just wanted you to know that you are a lucky young lady.   

We all need to vent and we are all her for you.

My best wishes for you.

[tryingmybest]

Sista, first of all welcome, and I am so sorry for your pain. Your post hit home for me this morning because I was considering my own relationship with my DS. I was realizing that I'm really not all that comfortable around him anymore. This is a kid I could talk to for hours, not any more. He is fundamentally not the kid he was when he lived at home. What helped me was realizing I am fundamentally different now from the girl I was. it happens to all of us. I think women make the change more gradually, men it seems CHANGE, and sometimes it's brutal. I have to work now at establishing a relationship with this new person, and it's hard because while I will always love my son, day to day interactions hinge on liking a person, sometimes it clicks sometimes it doesn't. I think that's where the anxiety comes from. Some nights I'll find myself looking at my watch, thinking when is he going to go home, I really want to relax, have a cup of tea and watch my show in peace. that's when I get anxious, how can I feel that way about my son? and this doesn't even take into consideration trying to form a relationship with my DIL - more stress!!!