Hello

[Sassy]

Speaking of marriage roles, I learned this week that traditional thank you notes for hospitality are written only to the hostess, and not also addressed to her husband.  Because traditionally ladies alone used to handle a couples' correspondence.  I don't know if this tradition was established before or after the right to vote was granted.

[Sassy]

My mom, who's been happily married to my dad since she was a teenager, once told me a story about her stepmother (not her MIL).   My mother's natural mother died when my mother was a child. Her father soon remarried the woman who became to me my grandmother. 

When my mom was first married to my dad, my mom was excited to host her parents for a dinner in their first apartment.  She carefully set the table, cooked, and proudly served Chicken Cordon Bleu.  After, as my mom set the coffee and prepared dessert plates, my dad cleared the table.   Dad began rinsing off dishes and stacking them to wash later.

My grandmother called my mother in from the kitchen and waved her over to the chair. Grandmother whispered to my mother harshly "You will never keep a man if you don't learn to keep up with your woman's work! Send your husband back in here to visit and you rinse your dishes!"

[Pooh]

I'm being serious when I say this, and it's going to sound bad.  I have one of those if I wanted to.  I truly could get him to do anything I wanted because he loves me so much.  Now, I don't use that against him, but I easily could.  Isn't that awful?

No, it's not.  He obviously picked exactly the right woman - someone that he loves enough that she could totally use and abuse him, but someone who loves him enough (and is decent enough) not to.

Win-win!

Thanks Elsie!  It's true....he could bend me around his little finger too if he choose to. 

[Pooh]

Speaking of marriage roles, I learned this week that traditional thank you notes for hospitality are written only to the hostess, and not also addressed to her husband.  Because traditionally ladies alone used to handle a couples' correspondence.  I don't know if this tradition was established before or after the right to vote was granted.

Now that's interesting...I've never heard that one.

Love the GM story! 

[Sassy]

The roles my grandparents had seemed to have worked for my grandparents, since til death did they part.  And my parents division of labor, while different than the ones in the home my mom came from, work for them, as they're still happy together.  Dad still clears the table.   When we're eating over there, before we get up to pitch in, we invariably tell dad to get back over here and visit and let mom do the woman's work!

That people in couples tend to do what they're best at, reminds me to remind my DH he is the best at changing the litter pan!

[Pooh]

Ha ha ha...you go girl!

[pam1]

justanoldgrandma, I tell myself all the time to let.it.go.  I'm curious, did your ILs and parents let stuff go?  Were they ok with sharing holiday time and that kind of stuff?

So, I wonder if let it go only works when all parties are able to?

Pam, yes, my ILs and parents let things go; my father didn't approve greatly of dh at first but grew to respect and love him.  My mother could criticize her dil to me (petty things) to vent but didn't confront her dil bc dil was really a great dil! 

My parents and ILs shared holidays w no problem.  It was "whatever works out for the most people" we will have the dinner, even if it wasn't on The Day.  Both sides were great about that. 

Now if all parties weren't able to "forget" remarks or "hogged" holidays, we'd have had to negotiate...... dh and I would have had to tell our families that we were going to alternate holidays..... inappropriate things were said at times and I know feelings got hurt; there were tense times until forgotten; we just didn't do the "cut offs" bc we wanted harmony; I frankly didn't know any of my friends (back then) who didn't see both sides of the family, even though sometimes they weren't too crazy about some of them!

justanoldgrandma, this sounds ideal.  And I think I approached our marriage in a similar way, for me, it was just too much being accused of stuff again and again.  I think the odd remark and selfish behavior is typical of everyone and we all have to let some things go in every relationship.  For me, it was more than that and quite toxic. 

I'm not sure what drives the DILs to cut their ILs before giving them a chance...I suspect they operate like my DHs family.  Outsiders are a threat, if you're not blood your not family.  Screwy ways of thinking that would probably take them years and exposure to a healthier way of living.  DH really did not know of another way.

I also wonder if some MILs (used to the status quo) may take advantage of saying the odd remark and should let it go.  Maybe there is a more relaxed familiarity b/c that's what they did and it is taken too far. 

[Begonia]

As far as roles go, there was not divorce in my family or my XH family, so we did not have to have all these different rules and schedules. After I got divorced we still spent holidays with my mom and XH mom because they both lived in the same town.  Then, after my DS and DD got married and divorced themselves it was splitting up hairs. DS and X never had children so that was less complicated than DD.   

"How will the holidays be split up this year?"  was always a question I asked my DD.  So my DD has to make sure she kept the GC schedules right so her X and his very close family shared equally.  Then My X and his wife wanted Christmas with DD and family, and I wanted some time with them too.  And everyone lives in towns at least 2-8 hours away.

So I stopped with the whole Christmas deal and now do gifts at all different times of the year and DS and DD are free to plan however they want.  I try to connect with them sometime between Thanksgiving and New Years but I live where weather is very unpredictable, so we keep plans very loose.  If it were up to me I would use all the money my family spends on gifts and (junk...oooops just MO) make sure it went for a worthy cause, like buying children's books for the library, or bringing flowers to the nursing home.   

[Begonia]

Oh I had to laugh at my crazy sentence that sounds like my DS and DD divorced themselves.   

[Pooh]

Shoot...there's been times I want to divorce myself!!!!!

[pam1]

Hey, I've told myself I'm not talking to myself today!   

[Begonia]

Too funny....thanks for seeing the humor Pooh and Pam1

[Belle]

I'm not sure what drives the DILs to cut their ILs before giving them a chance...I suspect they operate like my DHs family.  Outsiders are a threat, if you're not blood your not family.  Screwy ways of thinking that would probably take them years and exposure to a healthier way of living.  DH really did not know of another way.

I also wonder if some MILs (used to the status quo) may take advantage of saying the odd remark and should let it go.  Maybe there is a more relaxed familiarity b/c that's what they did and it is taken too far.

Pam1, you hit it right on the head for me, as this is exactly the way my MIL is.  From day 1, it was clear that I was an outsider and would be treated differently than the "blood" kin, in a bad way.  Not being the blood kin relegated me to treatment not much better than the family dog, and put me in the spotlight for constant scrutiny.  MIL's comments to me were absolutely rude and nasty, however I was expected to just stick around and take it from her, whatever she decided to dish out, no matter how rude or ugly, and NEVER, EVER say anything or defend myself in any way...for that was her definition of "honour and respect."

When DH told her to keep her commentary to herself and try to treat me a little better, he "dishonoured and disrespected her."  When I stopped subjecting myself to her ridicule and awful behavior and just told her bluntly to stay away from me and my children....I "dishonoured and disrespected" her.    When she said "I've done nothing to apologize for, YOU'RE the one that needs to apologize!" and we told her not to contact us again until she could work on her behavior...we "dishonoured and disrespected" her yet again.   

I realize that our definitions of those concepts vary greatly, and they are all different.  MIL's definitions of those concepts and mine don't match....at all.  I guess I am jaded now, because every time I see that verbiage "DS/DIL have dishonoured/disrespected me," I too wonder if that person just thinks they get a "free pass" because they consider themselves a "grey hair" and I wonder in the back of my mind what the other side of the story is.  Conflicts are NEVER one-sided, and no one person is ever 100% responsible.  We all play our own parts in our situations. 

But that's not why we're here.  We're here to gain support and encouragement based on the info we're willing to share and how we've perceived it.  We're here to try to get a new perspective and attempt to "make sense of the senseless" by sharing thoughts and ideas, even suggestions.  I get a lot from all posts, MIL/DIL alike.  There are some real doozies out there, on both sides of the fence!                 

[Chrisky]

I'm sorry I haven't been on here much, although I have been reading other threads.  There hasn't been much change with our DIL/DS.  We haven't seen the GDs since the last time in August, but have spoken to them on the phone.  DH has been talking to DS more frequently as DS is moving his business office and DH has been checking out some things for him.  We haven't mentioned our discussion with DS, except yesterday DH asked if there was anything happening with DIL, and DS said he was working on it.  Whatever that means. 
I would like to say, I have been reading a lot of threads, and the advise given to everyone and I'd like to thank everyone who posts here.  I'm not feeling quite so upset and nervous with our situation.  I've been keeping busy, and now planning for a short 10 day vacation with DH.  I just don't want to think about this too much, and find I'm less stressed if I don't.  So we'll see what the future brings.  I'm not counting on any great improvement. 

[forever spring]

A wise lady told me that although she didn't care for a dil much, she prayed about it and decided that since her son loved this woman she (the mil) needed to love her, too, difficult as it was.  She tried to put the thoughts in her heart and head.

I love this sentiment quoted a few weeks ago. How true! And however difficult it is for me, I'll work on it, trying to put that thought in my heart and head, thanks justanoldgrandma from another justanoldgrandma who still has a lot to learn.